Draft Profile Liam Stocker

[Malifice]

I think SOS is very good at what he does. There's a reason we targeted him in our startup phase.

I struggle to get my head around this cant make the minimum TPP though. I do get you might take on a salary dump in return for something in trade. I also know we couldn't pay our allowed TPP in the first couple of years because we didn't have the money.

Why wouldn't you go to a good club servant explain the situation and throw a bonus at them though?

Contracts can be renegotiated and the payments manipulated into whatever year you want.

We have to pay the cap minimum and there isnt many players on our list earning a whole lot (we have a lot of kids).

We used the space to;

1) Take on salary dumps to get better trade deals
2) Recruit mature aged players for a year or two as DFA
3) Lock the kids away on long term frontloaded deals early (I expect Walsh and Stocker to sign 2 year extensions each before the season starts next year)
4) Prize away players like Marchbank, Plowman, Setters, McGovern and so forth to get them to nominate us.

We should have a ton of space next year for F/A and trades, plus the ability to clear up even more (Thomas, Lobbe, Casboult all headed out the door, plus Simpson and Murphy not long after).

 

[Shaz2012]

Good on them.

And we're equally happy to get Stocker (who we rated at 6) in a year early, for the price of sliding our future 1st rounder down the order to wherever Adelaide finish in the 1st round.

We're trading it out anyway most likely, and wont be using it at the draft, so who cares?

That really would be great for you if you pull that off. It would decisively close this debate as a win on your part at least.

But who do you think you can realistically get? You were absolutely adamant that Sheil was coming to you. Please tell me that you don’t believe Kelly will be coming to you. I think Hawthorn will snap up any FAs. With the amount of OOC players they have next year, you will find it hard to get any decent player before them. Their 1st will be comparable to ours (yours). Then you have the other clubs, all bar St Kilda, being more attractive.

 

[Socrates2]

So your saying you liked our structures so much you want to copy them. Interesting considering other clubs were starting to emulate yours.

In all seriousness, we all know you don’t turn down the chance to get Lynch for nothing. Just pointing out that what has set you apart for the last 2 years is that small pressure oriented forward line. Lynch will take you away from that for better or worse. Be interesting to see your new game style.

It won't be too different ,still manic pressure from Rioli, Higgins ect, Lynch and Riewwoldt will take turns playing up the ground or true center half forward.We had to modify game plan , as we were short a second tall after Vickery, McBean and Griffiths left, now just another slight modification.

 

[Malifice]

But who do you think you can realistically get? You were absolutely adamant that Sheil was coming to you.

I was? I said we're one of the favorites, but ultimately he didnt want to spend another few years bringing a club off the bottom; he wanted to go straight into a side that he saw as competing. I can see his logic.

Thats the hard bit for us as a club at present, and I concede your point. If we dont start to move up the ladder we dont look attractive as a destination club. Players prioritize success over coin (look no further than Shiel, or Dusty and the Roos).

We need to start winning games, and be in a position that it's pretty clear that we're going to be a serious contender during the players contract with us.

We'll have money, and we'll be dangling big frontloaded contracts in front of players next year. And while success is important, it also needs to be weighed against money, media exposure, sponsorship and marketing, and so forth in a players limited career. Hopefully the side is tracking in the right direction and starting to gel, in order to make our money offer the one the players want.

Off the top of my head as to players, Cognilio, Kelly and Tomlinson from GWS are OOC or FA next year; any one of those three will do nicely.

 

[Isaac Cumming No 1]

That really would be great for you if you pull that off. It would decisively close this debate as a win on your part at least.

But who do you think you can realistically get? You were absolutely adamant that Sheil was coming to you. Please tell me that you don’t believe Kelly will be coming to you. I think Hawthorn will snap up any FAs. With the amount of OOC players they have next year, you will find it hard to get any decent player before them. Their 1st will be comparable to ours (yours). Then you have the other clubs, all bar St Kilda, being more attractive.

All if that makes sense, as does front-loading which effectively banks money. It's just the notion you could get into trouble with the minimum TPP. I think I misunderstood.

 

[RedFury]

What’s that got to do with Weitering being picked at 1 before AA Oliver?

If your metric for successful use of a number 1 pick is picking the best player in the draft then I don't think you really understand how these things work. When was the last time this happened? Rewoldt 17 years ago?

With a whole slew of young guns all with different ceilings and stages of development it's very difficult to pick who will end up the best. Hence why teams with the number 1 pick almost never do.

The point of a number 1 pick is it statistically should give you the best chance of landing a very, very good 10+ year player and the least chance of a bust.

Superstars are in the lap of the gods.

Weitering will be a very, very good 10+ year player for us. And his end game is clearly mobile KPD not a running intercept.

 

[Socrates2]

If your metric for successful use of a number 1 pick is picking the best player in the draft then I don't think you really understand how these things work. When was the last time this happened? Rewoldt 17 years ago?

With a whole slew of young guns all with different ceilings and stages of development it's very difficult to pick who will end up the best. Hence why teams with the number 1 pick almost never do.

The point of a number 1 pick is it statistically should give you the best chance of landing a very, very good 10+ year player and the least chance of a bust.

Superstars are in the lap of the gods.

Weitering will be a very, very good 10+ year player for us. And his end game is clearly mobile KPD not a running intercept.

You've run Weitering into the ground by playing him in key positions when he wasn't ready.He'll be banged up in a few years the way it's going.

 

[RedFury]

You've run Weitering into the ground by playing him in key positions when he wasn't ready.He'll be banged up in a few years the way it's going.

Disagree. Had the second year blues (pun intended) and a confidence issue earlier this year before returning to some decent form in the second half of the year. Just turned 21 and 3 years of AFL experience under his belt, with the players around him improving as well. Watch him get better and better from here.

 

[bmaurizio]

We have to pay the cap minimum and there isnt many players on our list earning a whole lot (we have a lot of kids).

We used the space to;

1) Take on salary dumps to get better trade deals
2) Recruit mature aged players for a year or two as DFA
3) Lock the kids away on long term frontloaded deals early (I expect Walsh and Stocker to sign 2 year extensions each before the season starts next year)
4) Prize away players like Marchbank, Plowman, Setters, McGovern and so forth to get them to nominate us.

We should have a ton of space next year for F/A and trades, plus the ability to clear up even more (Thomas, Lobbe, Casboult all headed out the door, plus Simpson and Murphy not long after).

Agree re list mobility and changes end 2019, Thomas & Simpson to retire, Levi, Phillips, Lobb and Kreuzer all OOC , at least 2 to go, and the smalls, Pickett, Garlett, Lang, Cuningham, Le Bois & Polson all under scrutiny at least 2 or 3 will have to go we can’t carry underwhelming players.

 

[bmaurizio]

Disagree. Had the second year blues (pun intended) and a confidence issue earlier this year before returning to some decent form in the second half of the year. Just turned 21 and 3 years of AFL experience under his belt, with the players around him improving as well. Watch him get better and better from here.

Agree Weitering be very good 2019 and an AA Defender in the next few years.

 

[the nail]

Who’s forgetting? Rance was low on confidence and was a terrible kick.
What’s that got to do with Weitering being picked at 1 before AA Oliver?

Who’s forgetting? Rance was low on confidence and was a terrible kick.
What’s that got to do with Weitering being picked at 1 before AA Oliver?

point is ..does not matter if youre pick 1 or 19...especially key position,takes 3 to 4 years to come good

 

[gillo94]

You've run Weitering into the ground by playing him in key positions when he wasn't ready.He'll be banged up in a few years the way it's going.

How has he been run into the ground? Don’t understand your logic. Most blues players inexperienced. Least been gaining plenty

 

[Socrates2]

How has he been run into the ground? Don’t understand your logic. Most blues players inexperienced. Least been gaining plenty

I ted to agree with Paul Roos on this one, he's getting roughed up by bigger opponents..
"It was a frustrating and, overall, unsettling 2018 for Jacob Weitering, who played just 14 senior games due to a thigh injury and a comeback through the VFL. But the No. 1 draft pick clearly struggled for confidence during games as opponents ruffled him up. Weitering was also thrown up forward while AFL great Paul Roos suggested he be played on a wing. Hopefully for Blues fans Weitering can recapture the form he showed early in his AFL career and Bolton can lock his key-position talent into one spot for the entire season."

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[gillo94]

I ted to agree with Paul Roos on this one, he's getting roughed up by bigger opponents..
"It was a frustrating and, overall, unsettling 2018 for Jacob Weitering, who played just 14 senior games due to a thigh injury and a comeback through the VFL. But the No. 1 draft pick clearly struggled for confidence during games as opponents ruffled him up. Weitering was also thrown up forward while AFL great Paul Roos suggested he be played on a wing. Hopefully for Blues fans Weitering can recapture the form he showed early in his AFL career and Bolton can lock his key-position talent into one spot for the entire season."

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Paul Roos is full of s**t. Third season what do we expect someone playing a key role like that. 2019 will be another year more experienced and bigger too

 

[Socrates2]

Paul Roos is full of s**t. Third season what do we expect someone playing a key role like that. 2019 will be another year more experienced and bigger too

He might still be good but it's been poor management.

 

[gillo94]

He might still be good but it's been poor management.

When it comes to playing in an inexperienced side decisions won’t come easy. Harry McKay injured and limited all year, but coaches persisted. Could have been poor management, but certain decisions are tough. Blues made plenty tough calls last year some happy others not so, given the position we are in, those are the breaks

 

[Dez!]

Paul Roos is full of s**t. Third season what do we expect someone playing a key role like that. 2019 will be another year more experienced and bigger too

No gillo, as usual that's actually you.

 

[70lethal]

Lang, McGovern, Setterfield, Fasolo, Kennedy, Goddard, Marchbank, all a bit susseptible to injuries and missing half to a full season.

Russell's going to have to earn his money.

Stocker and Walsh couldnt come to the club at any better time. Top fitness guy is worth weight in gold. Only 1 year till you get a descent coach.
These two are going to avoid so much pain others have had to suffer.
I like stocker but you guys reached a long way.

 

[Arr0w]

Lang, McGovern, Setterfield, Fasolo, Kennedy, Goddard, Marchbank, all a bit susseptible to injuries and missing half to a full season.

Russell's going to have to earn his money.

Stocker and Walsh couldnt come to the club at any better time. Top fitness guy is worth weight in gold. Only 1 year till you get a descent coach.
These two are going to avoid so much pain others have had to suffer.
I like stocker but you guys reached a long way.

Pretty sure you had some concerning injuries, yet you kept Burton?

Show me a coach that has been successful with a developing group. Roos with the Demons? Sheedy with GWS?

We didn't reach for Stocker at all, you will realise that soon enough, when you assess the draftees for next year

 

[Arr0w]

I ted to agree with Paul Roos on this one, he's getting roughed up by bigger opponents..
"It was a frustrating and, overall, unsettling 2018 for Jacob Weitering, who played just 14 senior games due to a thigh injury and a comeback through the VFL. But the No. 1 draft pick clearly struggled for confidence during games as opponents ruffled him up. Weitering was also thrown up forward while AFL great Paul Roos suggested he be played on a wing. Hopefully for Blues fans Weitering can recapture the form he showed early in his AFL career and Bolton can lock his key-position talent into one spot for the entire season."

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Still not sure why you want to discuss Weitering in this thread. But if you must, show me how many KPD's, playing in their 3rd straight season from being drafted as an 18 year old, that has better output/averages than Weithering in the last 10 years.

 

[Socrates2]

Still not sure why you want to discuss Weitering in this thread. But if you must, show me how many KPD's, playing him their 3rd straight season from being drafted as an 18 year old, that has better output/averages than Weithering in the last 10 years.[/hQUOTE]
I think he's a good player who has been mismanaged.Playing key position at 18 and 19 is too much, especially if the ball's down there a lot.Plus oppo teams target hi

I think he's a good player who has been mismanaged.Playing key position at 18 and 19 is too much, especially if the ball's down there a lot.Plus oppo teams target him.

 

[Arr0w]

I think he's a good player who has been mismanaged.Playing key position at 18 and 19 is too much, especially if the ball's down there a lot.Plus oppo teams target him.

Well if that helps to fast track his career, I am all for it

 

[Love the Drake]

The Stoker deal was bad management from Silvagni. Let's say Carlton finish 17th and Adelaide finish 7th, it means that pick 2 swapped for pick 12 and 22.The draft calculator says 12 and 22 are worth pick 4, so Carlton lose the value between pick 2 and 4. https://www.draftguru.com.au/pick-value-calculator#12,22

Let’s say Carlton finish 13th and Adelaide finish 14th...it means Carlton swaps pick 6 for Adelaide’s pick 5 AND we get pick 19 this year (used for Stocker). See how it works? Ridiculous to predict ladder positions for next year, and enter worst case scenario for Carlton to support such a imbecilic statement. Let’s wait until the end of next season before you weigh up this trade...on paper.

 

[pinot]

I think he's a good player who has been mismanaged.Playing key position at 18 and 19 is too much, especially if the ball's down there a lot.Plus oppo teams target him.

Carlton finish 14 and Crows finish top 4 then its break even trade if you want to look at it that way. We are looking at it bringing in two quality players with one pick. Stocker being one of them and most likely trade first pick 2019 for an established player. Crows will have a hit in the draft but we already got the two players we wanted.

 

[Big_Luch]

I think he's a good player who has been mismanaged.Playing key position at 18 and 19 is too much, especially if the ball's down there a lot.Plus oppo teams target him.

We generally had rowe, jones or Alex silvagni playing on the gorillas in defense. He hasn't been thrown to the wolves, if anything i wish they would put him in the deep end a bit more