Draft Profile Liam Stocker

RobR

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Clubs have ratings for all the top picks (the later ones have some variability as need is taken into account).
But at that top end, it’s a ranking. Carlton did well this year. The players they had ranked 1 and 6 they picked up.

But to not look back in a few years time and evaluate these guys in their draft class is absurd. It’s how clubs can evaluate recruiting departments.

But at pick 1, when you are looking at the entire draft pool, you need to be looking at the player that’s going to be the best from that class for a long time.

Not just a starting mid. Or an inconsistent tall forward, that’s capable of turning a match sometimes.

It’s the Fyfe, Martin, Riewoldt, Franklin types pick one is reserved for.

History shows it’s hard to get right.

Evaluation of what could have been done with the benefit of hindsight helps the recruiters and industry learn from the past. Although some will still ignore it with pig headed stubbornness and back their recruiters in no matter what.
At this point there's nothing to say that Walsh won't be the best of last years draft.
 

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HARKER

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Clubs have ratings for all the top picks (the later ones have some variability as need is taken into account).
But at that top end, it’s a ranking. Carlton did well this year. The players they had ranked 1 and 6 they picked up.

But to not look back in a few years time and evaluate these guys in their draft class is absurd. It’s how clubs can evaluate recruiting departments.

But at pick 1, when you are looking at the entire draft pool, you need to be looking at the player that’s going to be the best from that class for a long time.

Not just a starting mid. Or an inconsistent tall forward, that’s capable of turning a match sometimes.

It’s the Fyfe, Martin, Riewoldt, Franklin types pick one is reserved for.

History shows it’s hard to get right.

Evaluation of what could have been done with the benefit of hindsight helps the recruiters and industry learn from the past. Although some will still ignore it with pig headed stubbornness and back their recruiters in no matter what.
It is hard to get right but it is also a sum of the parts game.
We all want the best player for obvious reasons but it's not always about having the best players that nets you the best result.

On that note and to keep with what I think you're suggesting; What is it about Walsh that makes you think he won't be the best player in the draft?
There were others with more tricks, but the CFC saw Walsh as being the best player for them.
 

Crow till I die

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A better overall result, why trade down and pick an inferior player in Caldwell? Most scribes had Walsh as the best midfielder in the draft.
If you had traded down and took caldwell and stocker it would have left you with a much better shot at getting someone like josh kelly at the end of this year than what you now can with a very late 1st rounder from the crows. And i would think caldwell + stocker + pick 1 or 2 (possibly kelly) > walsh + stocker + pick 15-20 after NGA etc
 
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To be honest, most Crows don't really care about Stocker apart from Supercoach and Fantasy Football, and mainly because if Carlton are Right he good value. And Yes that is my main interest in him, as Carlton always play the kids making them good buys and money earners.
End of this year Stocker just another player at Carlton because we will be looking at 2020,

From this trade, we are happy to be in a position where we could end up using our highest draft pick in the Clubs history, the first time we have a chance a possible top 5 pick. that for us is exciting, and hence the reason that in 2019 we want Carlton to finish as low as possible.
I don't believe a lot of opposition supporter understand how big a deal it is to get a potential top 5 pick for the Crows.
Adelaide fans will be watching Stocker closely this season, to see how much he can help the Blues rise the ladder. Along with all their other guys intently due to draft ramifications.
 

Crow till I die

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Pretty silly 'logic' - the order of the draft never ends up being the correct order of talent so you could apply that 'logic' to any player taken at any draft pick.

E.g. Based on this 'logic' in 2010 West Coast could/should have downgraded Pick 4 (Gaff) for 2 later picks and gotten a combination of Dyson Heppell, Tom Lynch, Luke Parker plus others. Essentially rather than having one gun they could have had 2.

This doesn't mean they stuffed up by taking Gaff and I doubt they would do things differently even if they could, it just demonstrates that there's nearly always more value to be had when you have the benefit of hindsight.
No what i am highlighting is that your club traded out a probable pick 1 or 2 this year that will cost you any chance of trading for a josh kelly at the end of the year. You still could have grabbed a top end mid in 2018 if your club had traded down pick 1 and allowed you to keep the 2019 1st rounder for trade purposes
 

Rich01

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It is hard to get right but it is also a sum of the parts game.
We all want the best player for obvious reasons but it's not always about having the best players that nets you the best result.

On that note and to keep with what I think you're suggesting; What is it about Walsh that makes you think he won't be the best player in the draft?
There were others with more tricks, but the CFC saw Walsh as being the best player for them.
History shows it’s hard to get the number one pick right. The top end of this draft (top 4) have the potential to be very, very good.

My comment was based on the rationale that you would want the best player at that pick, and you review that class in 5 years time, you would evaluate success of Walsh vs his peers.

Carlton with the way they have recruited in the last 3 years decided to go the talented mid over the other three as they had filled those positions already. That would have helped them make that call.

But having access to one of these four is a great position to be in no doubt.

If Walsh ends up an AA like a Deledio and Lukosius like Riewoldt or Franklin, you’d have to say it was an oversight. Not a bad miss mind you.

But SOS ranked him 1 on his board for a reason, so he wouldn’t expect this to be the case.

As always, time will tell.
 

Rich01

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At this point there's nothing to say that Walsh won't be the best of last years draft.
Agree.

SOS ranked Walsh and Stocker at 1 and 6. Ballsy to put it out there and kudos to him for doing so as no other recruiters have done this successfully in the past.

It also allows us to assess his ranking objectively in several years time, just as we can now do with previous drafts.
 

RobR

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If you had traded down and took caldwell and stocker it would have left you with a much better shot at getting someone like josh kelly at the end of this year than what you now can with a very late 1st rounder from the crows. And i would think caldwell + stocker + pick 1 or 2 (possibly kelly) > walsh + stocker + pick 15-20 after NGA etc
Why miss out on a super talent like Walsh in hope that Kelly would choose us? IMO he stays at GWS or goes to North.
 
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Agree.

SOS ranked Walsh and Stocker at 1 and 6. Ballsy to put it out there and kudos to him for doing so as no other recruiters have done this successfully in the past.

It also allows us to assess his ranking objectively in several years time, just as we can now do with previous drafts.
If true. I wonder which of

Lukosius
Rankine
Max King
Rozee
Ben King

SOS doesnt rate
 

Will.B.Worth.Da.Waite

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No what i am highlighting is that your club traded out a probable pick 1 or 2 this year that will cost you any chance of trading for a josh kelly at the end of the year. You still could have grabbed a top end mid in 2018 if your club had traded down pick 1 and allowed you to keep the 2019 1st rounder for trade purposes
You're assuming way too much. You have no idea where Josh Kelly is going to want to play next year, nor how much he will cost, nor what trades will happen next year (inc. future picks) that will change the current scenario and what teams can offer.

And your examples re: who we could have drafted instead are just as fanciful ("but if Caldwell ends up just as good as Walsh").

Suggesting downgrading pick 1 for multiple picks is always going to look correct in hindsight since we know the draft order never ends up the correct order of talent, for all you know though your boy Caldwell could end up a spud or always injured.
 

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You're assuming way too much. You have no idea where Josh Kelly is going to want to play next year, nor how much he will cost, nor what trades will happen next year (inc. future picks) that will change the current scenario and what teams can offer.

And your examples re: who we could have drafted instead are just as fanciful ("but if Caldwell ends up just as good as Walsh").

Suggesting downgrading pick 1 for multiple picks is always going to look correct in hindsight since we know the draft order never ends up the correct order of talent, for all you know though your boy Caldwell could end up a spud or always injured.
Caldwell being as good as Walsh isnt that far fetched
 

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People talking about the blues should have traded down to get 2 players in 2018 Caldwell & Stocker being mentioned with the view to saving ext years 1st rounder so they can trade it for kelly i believe would have been wrong for a few reasons.

1. The may see Walsh as being the same quality as Kelly , He certainly was the standout mid all season and just about every talent expert had Walsh as the #1 mid in the draft ( I personally rate Lukosius & Rankine higher but they have the go home issue's as well as Carlton needing a classy elite mid more)

2. Carlton still got their man is Stocker anyway so no benefit for 2018 and i have not seen anywhere anybody rate Caldwell higher than Walsh

3. Maybe they either have no interest in Kelly due to many reasons, Could be his manager told Carlton he is either staying at GWS or a Done deal to north or even maybe another club.

4. Perhaps their 2019 1st selection (Adelaide's pick) + 2020 first rounder might get it done or could juggle a few other picks as well

Personally i believe if they did rate Stocker as highly as been reported and wanted him then they made the correct choice and did the deal they should
The only thing that will prove if it was the correct call or not is for Stocker to become the player they think/hope/expect him to become.

Hope the kid become a good player and has a good career
 

Crow till I die

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You're assuming way too much. You have no idea where Josh Kelly is going to want to play next year, nor how much he will cost, nor what trades will happen next year (inc. future picks) that will change the current scenario and what teams can offer.

And your examples re: who we could have drafted instead are just as fanciful ("but if Caldwell ends up just as good as Walsh").

Suggesting downgrading pick 1 for multiple picks is always going to look correct in hindsight since we know the draft order never ends up the correct order of talent, for all you know though your boy Caldwell could end up a spud or always injured.
Well you would want to hope that walsh is a superstar because a late 2019 1st rounder which is now what you are left with ain't much chop if you are looking to trade for a topline player (read kelly or which ever other A grader carlton might be after).unless of course you are happy to also include a 2020 1st which might be another top 5 pick.
 

Crow till I die

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Why miss out on a super talent like Walsh in hope that Kelly would choose us? IMO he stays at GWS or goes to North.
Maybe it is another player but the point still stands that we know SOS wanted stocker and could easily have traded down last year to get him and another top mid and then had a likely top 2 pick to go after another elite player this year
 

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Lets just for the purpose of this we work out firstly what would Kelly's value be in a trade
2 x top 10 picks would get it done imo

If Carlton end up with say
#16 - Crows 1st rounder
#6 - 2020 first rounder

Dont think the Giants are knocking that back
 

RobR

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Maybe it is another player but the point still stands that we know SOS wanted stocker and could easily have traded down last year to get him and another top mid and then had a likely top 2 pick to go after another elite player this year
You say easily trade down, how do you know? I believe there was no top 3 pick on offer for a trade down so why bother, Walsh will be outstanding.
 

Crow till I die

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You say easily trade down, how do you know? I believe there was no top 3 pick on offer for a trade down so why bother, Walsh will be outstanding.
Caldwell went at 9 and smith went at 7..both are every chance to be as good if not better than walsh

Edit. Both port and the crows would have been willing options to trade down with
 

Isaac Cumming No 1

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Lets just for the purpose of this we work out firstly what would Kelly's value be in a trade
2 x top 10 picks would get it done imo

If Carlton end up with say
#16 - Crows 1st rounder
#6 - 2020 first rounder

Dont think the Giants are knocking that back
Of course we will if we can. What'sneeded is get Kelly to nominate the Blues. Then a trade gets done. Even then we'll want it all.
 

Will.B.Worth.Da.Waite

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Caldwell being as good as Walsh isnt that far fetched
The point is the rankings of the draft have a thousand different possible ways of ending - none of these are worth speculating over right now.

Crows Til I Die has chosen to create some fanciful argument that has no substance to it based on simply one of many possible endings for this draft pool.
 

dlb99

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Carlton ain't getting Josh Kelly, we will not pay him bigger money than Crippa. I say it will be GWS or North.

Replenishing ruck stocks and high pressure small forwards are far more of need than midfield anyway.

Crows 1st round pick nearly certain to be traded
 

Will.B.Worth.Da.Waite

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And you do..pigs arse..give us all a break. Plenty of draft scribes had rated smith as good as walsh if not better
Just like plenty of draft scribes had Jack Watts as the best player in his year..

I never said I knew how it was going to end, that's my point, neither you nor I have any clue - these so called 'draft scribes' and recruiters never get the rankings exactly right, and you sure as shit don't know what you're talking about, hence why there is no 'logic' behind your ridiculous hypothetical and selective scenario.
 
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