Draft Profile Liam Stocker

Crow till I die

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Just like plenty of draft scribes had Jack Watts as the best player in his year..

I never said I knew how it was going to end, that's my point, neither you nor I have any clue - these so called 'draft scribes' and recruiters never get the rankings exactly right, and you sure as shit don't know what you're talking about, hence why there is no 'logic' behind your ridiculous hypothetical and selective scenario.
Well lets see how well it turns out but if either smith or caldwell have anywhere near or better careers than walsh then this draft / trade period will be a big fail for carlton no matter what spin you try and put on it because they had the chance to play it different
 

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They are on a different level mate. Who would you draft first?
The point is the rankings of the draft have a thousand different possible ways of ending - none of these are worth speculating over right now.
I thought prior to injury, Caldwell was being talked about as playing at a very high level and equal to most in the draft
 
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Carlton ain't getting Josh Kelly, we will not pay him bigger money than Crippa. I say it will be GWS or North.

Replenishing ruck stocks and high pressure small forwards are far more of need than midfield anyway.

Crows 1st round pick nearly certain to be traded
Hawthorn who won four flags recently, where prepared to break their sacred salary cap structure for Tom Lynch. Ditto, the Pies who made the gf and have a strong list made a massive offer.

Itd be madness to not get Kelly if it were possible imo
 

Will.B.Worth.Da.Waite

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Well lets see how well it turns out but if either smith or caldwell have anywhere near or better careers than walsh then this draft / trade period will be a big fail for carlton no matter what spin you try and put on it because they had the chance to play it different
And what happens if all of Caldwell, Walsh and Smith jointly turn out guns/spuds and Carlton still engineer a trade for Kelly?

There's a thousand different what-if scenarios that can occur from here, you're just selectively trolling.
 

Crow till I die

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Carlton ain't getting Josh Kelly, we will not pay him bigger money than Crippa. I say it will be GWS or North.

Replenishing ruck stocks and high pressure small forwards are far more of need than midfield anyway.

Crows 1st round pick nearly certain to be traded
Fair enough although i would be surprised if carlton didn't at least have a crack for kelly..he is a super mid and would make any team bettet
 

Crow till I die

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And what happens if all of Caldwell, Walsh and Smith jointly turn out guns/spuds and Carlton still engineer a trade for Kelly?

There's a thousand different what-if scenarios that can occur from here, you're just selectively trolling.
What have carlton got to offer for kelly ir any other A grader now..a late 1st won't cut it and you are really paying big if a 2020 1st was also included..nup i don't see a big name coming now that we have your 1st rounder
 

Isaac Cumming No 1

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Carlton ain't getting Josh Kelly, we will not pay him bigger money than Crippa. I say it will be GWS or North.

Replenishing ruck stocks and high pressure small forwards are far more of need than midfield anyway.

Crows 1st round pick nearly certain to be traded
I dont think you can be definitive about Kelly, the reality is no-one knows. I'd back him staying because the ckub has already shown we will fight for him.

I'd also give SOS more credit than to think their strategy is around recruiting him though. It's unlikely he's made a commitment to anyone yet, and it'd be a bit like relying on winning lotto to pay the rent.
 
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Lets just for the purpose of this we work out firstly what would Kelly's value be in a trade
2 x top 10 picks would get it done imo

If Carlton end up with say
#16 - Crows 1st rounder
#6 - 2020 first rounder

Dont think the Giants are knocking that back
This.

We retained a 1st this year so we can trade it. Having a 1st this year, also lets us trade our future 1st from 2020.

Even if we landed pick 2 this year and finished 2nd last behind the Suns, GWS would rightly want more than that for Kelly.

We brought an extra 1st round pick in early during a rebuild, and left ourselves with trade ammo to get a big trade done (if we can shake a player loose somewhere) now that we're focusing on F/A and trades.

People are forgetting that our midfield after Ed Curnow and Murphy (who are largely placeholders for a few years at this point) was Cripps (23), Dow (19), Kennedy (21) Fisher (19) and SPS (20). We went all in and added 3 more last year in Walsh, Stocker and Setterfield (all three 18-20).

Disregarding Curnow and Murph, thats a 23 year old Cripps leading a midfield of 7 x 18-21 year olds, with a games average of around 20 games for those seven players.

Our midfield is super young, but talented. Cripps (13), Dow (3), Kennedy (16), Fisher (23), SPS (5), Walsh (1), Stocker (19) and Setterfield (5) were all taken with early picks so they've all shown enough as juniors to show they have talent. Our backline is young with Weitering, Marchbank, Docherty, Plowman, O'Brien, Williamson etc. Our young forwards are Curnow, McKay and McGovern.

This year is clearly a massive year for development for those kids. We need to supplement the above list with established talent (and find a Ruckman for Kruezer, and a quality small forward or two).
 
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What have carlton got to offer for kelly ir any other A grader now..a late 1st won't cut it and you are really paying big if a 2020 1st was also included..nup i don't see a big name coming now that we have your 1st rounder
2 x 1st round picks is what Kelly would cost. We have yours, plus our own from 2020.

That would get it done, in the event he wants to come to Carlton this year.

Even presuming we finished 2nd last this year and kept our pick, we'd still need to cough up extra over and above pick 2 for Kelly.

You're failing to contextualize the trade (where Carlton is at in its list management stage). We've been hitting the draft crazy hard for 3 years now. We've loaded up on more first round draft picks (the low finishes, plus trading out several players for extra 1sts, plus our pick swap with you guys getting us another one) and traded more players taken with 1st rounders with 2nds than any other club in the history of the AFL, barring the expansion sides.

Seriously. 1st rounders in the past 3 years: Weitering, Curnow, McKay, Cuningham, Dow, SPS, O'Brien, Stocker, Walsh (plus Marchbank, Kennedy, Plowman, Setterfield, Pickett). 14 players in 4 trade/ draft periods over 3 years.

The club is of the view that we now have finished 'Stage 1' of the reset of the list, and gotten in the core of the talented kids we'll need for the next 10 years. For the next 3-4 years, we're going to go hard as we can at Free Agency and Trades.
 

pinot

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We invested heavily in the draft + young players over three years and people are still complaining.

Bookends look good - Weitering + Marchbank one end Curnow + McKay the other end

Midfield needs to start taking shape over next 24 months because they're so young. SPS + Fisher + Kennedy will surprise IMO.
 

Isaac Cumming No 1

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We invested heavily in the draft + young players over three years and people are still complaining.

Bookends look good - Weitering + Marchbank one end Curnow + McKay the other end

Midfield needs to start taking shape over next 24 months because they're so young. SPS + Fisher + Kennedy will surprise IMO.
Bit off topic but pleased to see Kennedy stepping up in an interview on your site and taking ownership of the need to support Cripps this year. I get these things are pre-planned but it's a risk, and a slgn he's growing up.

It'll have to be the bit more experienced players I think. The first year players like Walsh and Sticjer have to focus on adjusting to the pressure at AFL level.
 

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And you do..pigs arse..give us all a break. Plenty of draft scribes had rated smith as good as walsh if not better
10 club recruiters said they would've taken Walsh at 1, all the others had Lukosius or Rankine, no one said Smith. I'm starting to think your still dirty that Lukosius or Rankine didn't get to Adelaide. Carlton got the player they wanted.
 

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2 x 1st round picks is what Kelly would cost. We have yours, plus our own from 2020.

That would get it done, in the event he wants to come to Carlton this year.

Even presuming we finished 2nd last this year and kept our pick, we'd still need to cough up extra over and above pick 2 for Kelly.

You're failing to contextualize the trade (where Carlton is at in its list management stage). We've been hitting the draft crazy hard for 3 years now. We've loaded up on more first round draft picks (the low finishes, plus trading out several players for extra 1sts, plus our pick swap with you guys getting us another one) and traded more players taken with 1st rounders with 2nds than any other club in the history of the AFL, barring the expansion sides.

Seriously. 1st rounders in the past 3 years: Weitering, Curnow, McKay, Cuningham, Dow, SPS, O'Brien, Stocker, Walsh (plus Marchbank, Kennedy, Plowman, Setterfield, Pickett). 14 players in 4 trade/ draft periods over 3 years.

The club is of the view that we now have finished 'Stage 1' of the reset of the list, and gotten in the core of the talented kids we'll need for the next 10 years. For the next 3-4 years, we're going to go hard as we can at Free Agency and Trades.

Shiel went for 2x 1st rounders. Teloar went for 2x first rounders. Kelly should and will command more if he decides to move

Literally no one spoke of Smith in the same breath as Walsh. No one.

Literally no one????? Let me have a quick google.....

Likely top-five draft pick Sam Walsh has pledged to stick with the club that drafts him, even if he has to move interstate.
The tough 184-centimetre midfielder from Geelong, who starred in Vic Country's winless national under-18 championships campaign, turned 18 on Monday, and begins his adult life as one of the hottest prospects in this year's draft pool, being spoken about with
South Australian forward Jack Lukosius and Victorian midfielder Bailey Smith as options for the No.1 pick.
https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl...l-stay-where-i-m-drafted-20180702-p4zp2a.html


Walsh is a safe bet as an early draft pick and has the capacity to play 250 games. But with Jack Lukosius, Izak Rankine and Bailey Smith all in this draft, the question is not whether Walsh will be a bust, but whether three other prospects will be better. I believe they will.
http://www.espn.com.au/afl/story/_/...carlton-blues-mistake-sam-walsh-jack-lukosius
 
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Shiel went for 2x 1st rounders. Teloar went for 2x first rounders. Kelly should and will command more if he decides to move




Literally no one????? Let me have a quick google.....

Likely top-five draft pick Sam Walsh has pledged to stick with the club that drafts him, even if he has to move interstate.
The tough 184-centimetre midfielder from Geelong, who starred in Vic Country's winless national under-18 championships campaign, turned 18 on Monday, and begins his adult life as one of the hottest prospects in this year's draft pool, being spoken about with
South Australian forward Jack Lukosius and Victorian midfielder Bailey Smith as options for the No.1 pick.
https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl...l-stay-where-i-m-drafted-20180702-p4zp2a.html


Walsh is a safe bet as an early draft pick and has the capacity to play 250 games. But with Jack Lukosius, Izak Rankine and Bailey Smith all in this draft, the question is not whether Walsh will be a bust, but whether three other prospects will be better. I believe they will.
http://www.espn.com.au/afl/story/_/...carlton-blues-mistake-sam-walsh-jack-lukosius
So youve found an article from July 2018 and one written by Knightmare who consistently grade Carltons drafts as poor. Almost as if he has a bias...

Even then, he concedes its an "overwhelming majority" that Walsh was going at number 1 and states that it is only his opinion that Smith may end up better.

Now shoo troll. Dont be bother me no more.
 

Toadvine

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So youve found an article from July 2018 and one written by Knightmare who consistently grade Carltons drafts as poor. Almost as if he has a bias...

Even then, he concedes its an "overwhelming majority" that Walsh was going at number 1 and states that it is only his opinion that Smith may end up better.

Now shoo troll. Dont be bother me no more.
You're the one who said "literally no one" genius. Looks like I literally found two people is the small amount of time it took to do a google search. :rolleyes:
 

Dez!

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So youve found an article from July 2018 and one written by Knightmare who consistently grade Carltons drafts as poor. Almost as if he has a bias...

Even then, he concedes its an "overwhelming majority" that Walsh was going at number 1 and states that it is only his opinion that Smith may end up better.

Now shoo troll. Dont be bother me no more.
Ah yes, doesn't think my club did amazing so he must be bias.
 
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You're the one who said "literally no one" genius. Looks like I literally found two people is the small amount of time it took to do a google seard. :rolleyes:
So you have an outdated article written at the start of the season and one written by a Bigfooty poster who is a staunch Collingwood supporter. I feel the criteria of "no one" has been satisfied.
 

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Who yanked your chain? Begone troll.
Are you five years old? Might be time to grow up buddy.

So you think Smith is Better than Walsh as well?
Where did I say that? Having a different opinion especially when someone (Knightmare) watches these kids far more than anyone here and does it for ESPN he's hardly going to let bias influence his work. Does it mean he's right? Time will tell but just to label someone bias because they don't rate what your club did is petty as f***.
 
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Are you five years old? Might be time to grow up buddy.


Where did I say that? Having a different opinion especially when someone (Knightmare) watches these kids far more than anyone here and does it for ESPN he's hardly going to let bias influence his work. Does it mean he's right? Time will tell but just to label someone bias because they don't rate what your club did is petty as f***.
He has a history of doing so. Its akin to citing a Caroline Wilson article to a North supporter.
 

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Are you five years old? Might be time to grow up buddy.


Where did I say that? Having a different opinion especially when someone (Knightmare) watches these kids far more than anyone here and does it for ESPN he's hardly going to let bias influence his work. Does it mean he's right? Time will tell but just to label someone bias because they don't rate what your club did is petty as f***.
Well you jumped in and backed the other poster and now you more or less say you haven't got an opinion. What was the point?
 
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