Draft Profile Liam Stocker

[DangerSloane]

in support of your comments, here is an article from the Australian that discussed Izak Rankine. Malcolm Blight rates him as the best of the lot and Sheehan thinks he would have gone top 5 as a 17 year old..he is fiery no doubt, but as for talent, he stands out above all others in the draft this year. Walsh appears to be a guy that is consistent (consistently good at getting the ball) and has leadership qualities - as safe bet as a player but with a potential ceiling well below Rankine

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/sp...t/news-story/5db2a12c86329a017c979c731b373b5d

here is another endorsing Rankine from Brenton Phillips - SA U18 coach

https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/spor...prxhF9sL22sJuDsbKO7vFpTHCYXVPD4Z1A7axrop_96Rk

Guess the question was whether Carlton wanted to take a risk on a guy like Rankine (both a behavioural and flight risk), when they had a no fuss likely-200-game player ready to roll in Walsh.
I think it went pretty much how people expected, regardless of whether other people thought Rankine was the best talent. Carlton may have too, but may have assessed the risk as not worth the incremental difference between Rankine and Walsh.

 

[Crow till I die]

Guess the question was whether Carlton wanted to take a risk on a guy like Rankine (both a behavioural and flight risk), when they had a no fuss likely-200-game player ready to roll in Walsh.
I think it went pretty much how people expected, regardless of whether other people thought Rankine was the best talent. Carlton may have too, but may have assessed the risk as not worth the incremental difference between Rankine and Walsh.

Totally agree there - he was / is too big a flight risk for them to consider and walsh fits the mould of a very solid mid - just like smith and Caldwell also would have for them

 

[DangerSloane]

Totally agree there - he was / is too big a flight risk for them to consider and walsh fits the mould of a very solid mid - just like smith and Caldwell also would have for them

On the other hand a forward line going forward of Curnow, McGovern, McKay, Rankine plus a small somewhere in there would be pretty brutal.

 

[gardiner stand]

He's spot on actually. Knightmare's history of spotting talent in his power rankings is abysmal. Yes he puts in hours and gives a lot of his time to BigFooty. But before you bend the knee to him because he is "getting paid" to put up a few mock drafts, perhaps go and investigate his track record. I think it is, in fact you, who should take the good hard look in the mirror.

Internet "experts" are found in every industry across the world. I'm yet to stumble across one worth subscribing to. The fact that you are buying into this particular "expert" tells us everything we need to know about your intelligence.

He’s just an Adelaide troll

 

[Robertio]

Guess the question was whether Carlton wanted to take a risk on a guy like Rankine (both a behavioural and flight risk), when they had a no fuss likely-200-game player ready to roll in Walsh.
I think it went pretty much how people expected, regardless of whether other people thought Rankine was the best talent. Carlton may have too, but may have assessed the risk as not worth the incremental difference between Rankine and Walsh.

 

[Crow till I die]

On the other hand a forward line going forward of Curnow, McGovern, McKay, Rankine plus a small somewhere in there would be pretty brutal.

Yeah it would - just Like Tex, JJ, Eddie, Rankine, Gooch and Lynch would look awesome as well

 

[DangerSloane]

Yeah it would - just Like Tex, JJ, Eddie, Rankine, Gooch and Lynch would look awesome as well

Dont get me wrong we have a great forward line, but they arent 22-23 anymore.
Tex and JJ have two solid years left in em and would be a bonus to get more. Eddie maybe even less.

I feel we have replacements for each of them coming through so I'm not worried, but Carlton's forward line future looks very bright. Just need to fix the rest of the ground.

FWIW I think CFC made the right choice in Walsh. They needed a) midfielder b) leader c) low risk player
He fits all 3. Its possible that Rankine fits none.

 

[Marcel Proust]

What exactly does that mean though?
'Some clubs' may have had Walsh, Lukosius, Rankine, MKing, Smith, BKing etc in contention for #1.
Maybe they had up to a dozen players in contention and then it's only some clubs.

What I found most interesting is when Walsh's peers were asked as to who should go #1, the overwhelming opinion was for Walsh.
I do mean overwhelming. Not going to look for the article, but I think that says a lot.

About half didnt half Walsh at one so its not overwhelming

one said Lukosius was the best draft prospect in 15 years

Hahahah you're kidding right?

You should probably leave BigFooty mate, with dumb shit like this you can't and won't ever be taken seriously.

How many examples of champion players sliding do you want so we can all highlight how stupid this statement is?

Yep, I didnt say good player havnt been taken with later picks in the history of the draft.

I said if Stoker is 'wonderful' (inspiring delight, pleasure, marvellous.) why was he overlooked 20 odd times but every non carlton club and probably a few more if the traded hadnt happened

 

[Robertio]

About half didnt half Walsh at one so its not overwhelming

one said Lukosius was the best draft prospect in 15 years



Yep, I didnt say good player havnt been taken with later picks in the history of the draft.

I said if Stoker is 'wonderful' (inspiring delight, pleasure, marvellous.) why was he overlooked 20 odd times but every non carlton club and probably a few more if the traded hadnt happened

Are you going to ask this question every day? You don't know where the other teams rated him and we don't care.

 

[jezzajay]

How is that not overwhelming?
One player has 18 votes and all other players collectively had 12 votes. Mate, that's overwhelming.

Can't see anyone there suggesting what you put forward about Lukosius.
Walsh was one of the four that did nominate him. So Walsh garnered 18 votes and Lukosius 4.
May not mean much in the end, but you have to admit; It is a wide gap .

It's not overwhelming as it doesn't match his opinion.

 

[Crow till I die]

How is that not overwhelming?
One player has 18 votes and all other players collectively had 12 votes. Mate, that's overwhelming.

Can't see anyone there suggesting what you put forward about Lukosius.
Walsh was one of the four that did nominate him. So Walsh garnered 18 votes and Lukosius 4.
May not mean much in the end, but you have to admit; It is a wide gap .

The word I think you are looking for with walsh is consistency. Most predict him to be consistently good and have a good long career. Lukosius has the tools to make him the best forward in the game but does he have the consistency. Rankine certainly has the tools to be McLeod like and one of the most mercurial players to play the game in recent times - but will he be consistent. I think if you did ask each club who has the highest ceiling as a player that Lukosius and Rankine would rank above walsh. What gives walsh the nod is that most see him not turning out bad performances very often.

As a hypothetical, if walsh' ceiling is Joel Selwood, Lukosius ceiling is Nick Reiwoldt and Rankine's ceiling is Andrew Mcleod and they all reach that ceiling as players - who would you take?

 

[HARKER]

As a hypothetical, if walsh' ceiling is Joel Selwood, Lukosius ceiling is Nick Reiwoldt and Rankine's ceiling is Andrew Mcleod and they all reach that ceiling as players - who would you take?

This is a Stocker thread for starters but nevertheless; I'd want the player that added the most to their team.
You have listed some pretty good names there and on face value I'd say Riewoldt, but Selwood as captain did contribute to three Premiership wins for Geelong.
Macleod contributed greatly to 2 Premiership wins. Riewoldt? Zero.

Judd will arguably be seen as being the best player in his super-draft year, but did Hodge contribute more in what Hawthorn achieved through their playing years? Hard to say for more, but I'd take Hodge in this regard. Reckon that his overall positive effect upon the playing group was greater than for what Judd did for West Coast or for Carlton.

 

[La Dispute]

Is Rankine’s inconsistency due to workrate, fitness, focus or a combination? Has the highest ceiling, Luko the most likely to be the best IMO

 

[Arr0w]

Yep, I didnt say good player havnt been taken with later picks in the history of the draft.

I said if Stoker is 'wonderful' (inspiring delight, pleasure, marvellous.) why was he overlooked 20 odd times but every non carlton club and probably a few more if the traded hadnt happened

Marcel, if you want to be taken seriously around here, perhaps cease with your trolling and or agenda.

I have yet to see any recruiter nail the best player in the draft with every pick, evident by so many players taken late in the draft, that in time are re-rated as top 10 players. Also, most of the better recruiters still have busts over a 2 year period, so their record/opinion is above average at best.

Stocker might be a bust (which I doubt given his inside style), or he might be rated where he was drafted pick 19, or even a top 10 pick once we have some exposed form.

Same questions could be asked as to why players slid in the draft, such as Taylor, Valente, Williams, while others went earlier than expected........opinions

 

[Marcel Proust]

You don't know where the other teams rated him .

Given the lad was pick 19, we have a pretty fair idea.

we don't care.

the thousands of comments on Stocker and carlton rebuilding discussions would shows some level of interest in the related topic by the people.

Adelaide fans will certainly be keeping a close eye on how many games Stocker helps win for the mighty blues next year

How is that not overwhelming?
One player has 18 votes and all other players collectively had 12 votes. Mate, that's overwhelming.

Can't see anyone there suggesting what you put forward about Lukosius.
Walsh was one of the four that did nominate him. So Walsh garnered 18 votes and Lukosius 4.
May not mean much in the end, but you have to admit; It is a wide gap .

it was 10/18 yesterday. Maybe itll be 14 tomorrow.

If i found pro-Lukosius opinions yous would probable start complaining how the person in question is terrible like the ESPN guy just copepd

 

[Robertio]

Given the lad was pick 19, we have a pretty fair idea.



the thousands of comments on Stocker and carlton rebuilding discussions would shows some level of interest in the related topic by the people.

Adelaide fans will certainly be keeping a close eye on how many games Stocker helps win for the mighty blues next year



it was 10/18 yesterday. Maybe itll be 14 tomorrow.

If i found pro-Lukosius opinions yous would probable start complaining how the person in question is terrible like the ESPN guy just copepd

Stocker won the Morrish Medal mate, the same as Jack Higgins did last year. We didn't get him from nowhere. I'm still trying to wok out if your trolling or just dumb, i hope it's trolling.

 

[Marcel Proust]

Stocker won the Morrish Medal mate, the same as Jack Higgins did last year. We didn't get him from nowhere. I'm still trying to wok out if your trolling or just dumb, i hope it's trolling.

Same as Nick Graham.

trading away pick 1 (or 2) very risky business ultimately from SOS and his disciples IMHO.

A patient rebuild, or a half baked rebuild to try and help a under pressure Bolton in the short term?

 

[Robertio]

Same as Nick Graham.

trading away pick 1 (or 2) very risky business ultimately from SOS and his disciples IMHO.

A patient rebuild, or a half baked rebuild to try and help a under pressure Bolton in the short term?

So you keep on going don't you, you dont even know if Stockers any good. What if he is, your going to look real stupid with all your posts. No Carlton people have said he's going to be a star, we'e hoping. Why don't you wait until he plays a couple of games..

 

[Jeremias]

trading away pick 1 (or 2) very risky business ultimately from SOS and his disciples IMHO.

Has anyone argued there’s no risk associated with the trade?

I’m not sure why you feel the need to repeat yourself ad nauseum.

You’re fishing for a reaction and it’s getting very, very tiresome.

A patient rebuild, or a half baked rebuild to try and help a under pressure Bolton in the short term?

If there was ever any doubt you’re trolling, there is no longer.

There is reason to be critical of Carlton but you’re pushing shit uphill if you’re trying to suggest the club hasn’t been patient through the rebuild.

Take the trolling elsewhere thanks. You’ve already been warned.

 

[bmaurizio]

Same as Nick Graham.

trading away pick 1 (or 2) very risky business ultimately from SOS and his disciples IMHO.

A patient rebuild, or a half baked rebuild to try and help a under pressure Bolton in the short term?

One can look at Liam‘s selection from your perspective of course, but I’d rather support an experienced recruitment team's decision and that perhaps has done due diligence on the matter.
I’ve just had a quick glance back at the wide hearty smiles on Silvagni and his team upon securing their man, it tells me Liam stocker is going to be ripper.

 

[LemmingMaster]

I just don't see such a level of quality in Smith. I've tried but just don't see it.
You see it, Knightmare sees it, but maybe I've just missed something along the way. Time will tell.

I didn't see Stocker live so a little hesitant in rating him.
I didn't see MKing live either, but have no issues rating him very high. Weird how that works.

I am not that high on Smith as well.
I did not really get to properly watch Stocker and Caldwell, but I certainly liked the look of Caldwell more than Smith.

Walsh, Caldwell, Jones are three mids I preferred more than Smith.

 

[Crow till I die]

I am not that high on Smith as well.
I did not really get to properly watch Stocker and Caldwell, but I certainly liked the look of Caldwell more than Smith.

Walsh, Caldwell, Jones are three mids I preferred more than Smith.

What about Jones did you see that you liked so much?

 

[LemmingMaster]

What about Jones did you see that you liked so much?

I felt like I was on my own a little on his rating.

Great speed around the contest, probably the best tackler for a midfielder in the draft class. He reminded me a little in Cerra for tackling around the contest. Good skills on both sides of his body.

 

[Crow till I die]

I felt like I was on my own a little on his rating.

Great speed around the contest, probably the best tackler for a midfielder in the draft class. He reminded me a little in Cerra for tackling around the contest. Good skills on both sides of his body.

I know the crows were dead keen on him with their first pick on draft night and Haggis was very happy to take him. Has pace and read endurance. I see him a sneaky chance of playing round 1

 

[THE_GUN]

I admire the work KM puts in, his write ups are detailed and generally measured, although his rankings are not always accurate. As THE_GUN mentioned Bishop was also very good and I rate him as the best I have seen around these parts, yet, from my understanding, none are working directly for any club.

On the other hand, there are many people that take in hours of junior football, that are no less knowledgeable, despite not detailing their analysis

As for trolling, rich coming from you, point in case

"That doesn't say much when the likes of Wayne Hughes and Stephen Silvagni have been employed in AFL recruitment circles for more than ten years....."

On your first point whilst you are correct and there are hundreds that know their stuff and are good we dont have many on here and thats what i meant
We should not be bagging people like KM or Bishop for putting in the work to get us the info we generally wouldnt have or seek without their imput.

Regarding your point about Hughes & Sos
I dot think i need to clarify about hughes his record speaks for itself and im sure most carlton supporters would not have him back so i feel vindicated that he was a failure

SOS is currently Carltons love child and can do no wrong as was the case with others in the past but his record so far over the last 10 years is really not that great and looking at his time at the GWS with what he had he could have done alot more and had some major misses. If the GWS dont win a flag in the next 3-5 years he deserves to wear some of that.

His time at Carlton is yet to be a success and will be judged accordingly in 5 years time and will depend on if Carlton's current list rebuild is actually a build that achieves success or another false dawn.
Currently its too early due to the way he has gone about the rebuild by totally gutting the list and starting afresh unlike other teams like Bulldogs,Tigers who have done it differently. Melbourne also gutted their list many years ago and had as many top draft picks and looked like they were going to go on with it but the young talent didnt translate to success just as yet with alot of kids falling by the wayside.