Liberatore is SOFT!!!

[Tiger_Of_Old]

nahhhhhhhh thugatore isnt soft how can you call a player soft when he has one objective in mind these days and thats king hits behind play.scratchingand anything else he feels at the time he can get away with nope not soft at all
cheers!

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

I'm with you bulldogs1.

So that makes two of us

Don't know what's biting Danny these days. He would know better than anyone that the one thing you can't call Libba is 'soft'.

Perhaps he was having a lend of someone... Sucked all you ppl in anyway.

 

[Captain Sensible]

Me Three

Yeah put me down as the third doggies supporter to say that Libba is anything but soft.
The only reason I havent posted already is that the idea is so stupid.

 

[Arch]

Originally posted by WCE2000
i would hardly call Liberator soft because of one incident.

for a guys hes size to top the tacklin for 4 or 5 consecutive years, i find it impossible to calll him soft.

WTF ??? AN eagles fan with a totally un-biased, fair assessment of Libba ???

Im printing out this post and pinning it on the wall.

 

[Chicago1]

Me Four

Originally posted by localyokel
Yeah put me down as the third doggies supporter to say that Libba is anything but soft.
The only reason I havent posted already is that the idea is so stupid.

Libba soft? Oh come on! Guess I'm Doggie supporter No. 4 not to think so.

Methinks Danny Southern and Caro "... have got a thingggg..... goin' on......"

 

[Ted's Robot]

Libba Soft. What a joke

Saw the incident though. Libba being all of 4 ft nothing was supposed to jump in front of Bourke (heap taller) cos he could have jumped really really really high and possibly had a chance of competing for the ball. What would be the point. Oh yeah is man would have been free. That would have been smart play.

 

[CJH]

Originally posted by bulldogs1
I'm the only Dogs supporter disagreeing , others mainly seem to be from other clubs, so I don't see your point.

As for CJH, you haven't actually called him soft yourself, have you? Just leaving the suggestion to someone else and repeating it. Soft option.

Also originally posted by bulldogs1

... some stupid comment about Libba being soft quoted by someone who won't say it in their own words? ...

Oh Dear Bulldogs1. Having to resort to crticising the semantics of my original post. Surely a better case for the defence could be mounted than that.

In case you missed the bleeding obvious, the title of this thread is Liberatore is SOFT!!!. This is my statement. I made it. They are my words.

However, I am a Richmond supporter and someone who has been know to be critical of Liberatore in the (recent) past. Therefore, if I made the statement on it's own it would be dismissed (rightly) as having no credibilty whatsoever.

Therefore, I sought to support my opening statement by paraphrasing a former Bulldogs player and current Special Commentator for the most preeminent Football broadcast station 3LO.

In my opinion, backing into a marking contest while knowing someone is coming the other way it the most difficult thing to do in Australian Rules Football. This was a test placed before Liberatore last Friday, one in which he failed.

A player who is brave enough to hit someone 100 metres of the ball but has been proven to flinch when the hard stuff occurs is not really as tough as he is made out.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

Originally posted by CJH


Therefore, I sought to support my opening statement by paraphrasing a former Bulldogs player and current Special Commentator for the most preeminent Football broadcast station 3LO.

Who, if he were still playing for the Dogs, you would say had no credibility whatsoever, and in fact you would probably classify him along with Libba for his - gasp - intimidatory tactics. Southern was obviously having a little joke - and you've taken the bait. He would cack himself if he knew he was being called 'preeminent' lol.

In my opinion, backing into a marking contest while knowing someone is coming the other way it the most difficult thing to do in Australian Rules Football. This was a test placed before Liberatore last Friday, one in which he failed.

I'll make sure Libba is informed that he has failed CJH's most stringent courage test which most people INCLUDING YOURSELF didn't even notice. I'm sure he'll be devastated. Everyone else saw Libba perform at least a dozen even more courageous actions during the game but you probably didn't see those either.

 

[tigerboy]

Originally posted by Dogs_R_Us


Everyone else saw Libba perform at least a dozen even more courageous actions during the game but you probably didn't see those either.

Must have been behind the play again! Like I said, he is very camera shy!

*scratch*

 

[Ted's Robot]

The camera seemed to pick up Libba's fantastic tackle on the much bigger Ottens OK.

 

[HahnPremium8]

Dogs supporter number 6!!! I didn't reply either when i first saw it...it was such a stupid topic i was hoping it would just go away.

Anyway, i can't remember the incident, maybe libba thought Bourke was probably not going to take the mark and was waiting for the crumbs. Libba is definitely not soft, what a joke.

 

[Richmondfan#1]

Originally posted by bulldogs1
What do you mean? Too scared (????) to face what facts - some stupid comment about Libba being soft quoted by someone who won't say it in their own words? Doubtless, there are plenty of Doggies fans who would agree with me, and a heap more of other teams supporters who may hate his guts, but not too many would never be stupid enough to suggest he is soft. And by the way, I'm defending Libba here, not the club.

Ok, i take the scared part away. About CJH, i thought his comments were quite clear ... you even clicked on them to open the thread!
Very good, you are defending Libba! Libba plays for a club therefore, in a sense you are defending a club. What does it really matter?

 

[CJH]

Originally posted by Dogs_R_Us


...

He would cack himself if he knew he was being called 'preeminent' lol.

...

I didn't call him preeminent. I called the radio station he worked for preeminent.

 

[K9-54]

Re: Liberatore is NOT SOFT!!!

Originally posted by CJH
Former Bulldog hardman Daniel Southern commenting on last Friday's clash for 3LO observed that Liberatore pulled up short to avoid putting his body into a marking contest.

Did anyone else hear this comment?

I didn't hear the comments. I don't listen to someone else's version of the events I'm watching. But I do recall the incident. At the time I thought Libba should have made the contact. Why? Not because it would have done any good - Bourke would either have marked it or got a free because his run was blocked by a playing coming in from the front. No, the reason I wanted him to keep going was simply to see a good hard hit between them as I'm sure that even with Bourke having the advantage of size and speed, Libba would have bounced up and got on with the game and we could have laughed at sight of another Richmond sook.

Libba is definitely not soft.

BTW, I was impressed with the speed at which captain courageous Campbell managed to get kicks in on Friday night. I had never noticed that about him before. Obviously a skill developed through a pathalogical fear of sustaining any body contact and a complete lack of any evasive capabilities.

 

[bulldogs1]

Well, for a start you called them the "most preemininent" Huh? I would think that the preeminent station would be 3AW, with its higher ratings. 3LO need someone like Danny to give them some "Colour", and that is what is they got.

All of a sudden Danny is an "authority", LOL.

Originally posted by CJH


I didn't call him preeminent. I called the radio station he worked for preeminent.

 

[Joffaboy]

What a joke, Libba soft.....lololololololololololol.
I aint no Doggies supporter but he is the toughest most courageous player in the league.
The reason the Bulldog faithful booed Knights and Campbell was not because they thought they were dirty players, but gutless little laggers who cried to the AFL, one, after lying about the incident, and then changing his story.
Daffy hit Smith behind the play with an elbow and Smith needed 7 stiches in his chin. Did the Bulldogs whine like stuck pigs ala Richmonds pathetic performance? I dont think so.
And then a Richmond supporter basking in the hollow victory (hows Browns head, still on its shoulders?) proclaims Liberatore as soft.
What a typical piece of Richmond cowardice.

 

[tigerboy]

Originally posted by Joffaboy
What a joke, Libba soft.....lololololololololololol.
I aint no Doggies supporter but he is the toughest most courageous player in the league.

Courage?? pffftt

Unless you classify eye gouging, kicking, king hitting, scratching, etc.. as courageous acts??

 

[Top Dog]

Libba soft.....what a joke.

Boy is he couragous, jealous are ya tigerboy cause u got ur pansy skipper running around.

 

[bulldogs1]

You're right as usual, Chris. We missed the bleeding obvious. It is an unqualified, 3-word statement by yourself, a well-know Tiger supporter and Libba critic. Sorry for missing that.

It was followed up by your paraphrasing and interpretation of yet another opinion from a 'colourful' 3LO special comments man who has an axe to grind with his former club. The problem I have is that you make a bold statement, then follow it with someone else's opinion and hide behind it until flushed out later. Only then do we find that your 'proof' of Libba's cowardice is merely an opinion. Well, D'oh. If the little guy's coach had said it, then it would have carried just a little more weight, but you would probably call that biased, too.

3LO the 'most preeminent'? Huh. I would say the preeminent station is 3AW based on ratings, another little bit for you to chew on. If you are going to throw it up as a supporting fact, then get it right.

What it all boils down to is that I am upset by a 3-word "statement', that is not supported by your own reasoning. You instead hide behind interpretation and paraphrasing of a less-than-credible source, only disclosing your own measure of courage ("failed the test" Who made this the measure anyway?) when flushed out later.

Originally posted by CJH




Oh Dear Bulldogs1. Having to resort to crticising the semantics of my original post. Surely a better case for the defence could be mounted than that.

In case you missed the bleeding obvious, the title of this thread is Liberatore is SOFT!!!. This is my statement. I made it. They are my words.

However, I am a Richmond supporter and someone who has been know to be critical of Liberatore in the (recent) past. Therefore, if I made the statement on it's own it would be dismissed (rightly) as having no credibilty whatsoever.

Therefore, I sought to support my opening statement by paraphrasing a former Bulldogs player and current Special Commentator for the most preeminent Football broadcast station 3LO.

In my opinion, backing into a marking contest while knowing someone is coming the other way it the most difficult thing to do in Australian Rules Football. This was a test placed before Liberatore last Friday, one in which he failed.

A player who is brave enough to hit someone 100 metres of the ball but has been proven to flinch when the hard stuff occurs is not really as tough as he is made out.

 

[Joffaboy]

Originally posted by tigerboy


Courage?? pffftt

Unless you classify eye gouging, kicking, king hitting, scratching, etc.. as courageous acts??

I would pick him in my side anytime before the three Richmond fairies I mentioned previously.
Tell me when are Richmond going to apologise for the behind the play attack on Rohan Smith or is that too much to ask?

 

[CJH]

Bulldogs1,

A few points in my defence:

1. I don't think what qualifies a station as being 'pre-eminent' has actually been defined. If you choose to use higher rating as a means, than that is your perogative. I more so intended it to mean "of the highest quality". I was actually going to use the word "credible" but had used it in the previous sentence and didn't read too well.
2. I did indeed paraphrase what Southern said. I would have quoted him but couldn't remember word for word what he said. I don't think I have distorted the meaning of his comments though.
3. I made a clearly subjective statement and chose to back it up with an alternate source. How is this unusual? This is pretty much the norm in an academic paper. (without suggesting that what is posted here actually constitutes such a paper!)
4. You choose to dismiss the credibility of Southern as a witness. That is your opinion and your are entitled to argue it against my case. I was not aware that Southern was held with such contempt by the Bulldogs faithful though. Why is this?
5. I could have argued why I think Libba was soft - based on what I saw (It happened right in front of where I was sitting) and then supported it with Southerns version of events. I chose not to because I merely would have been repeating myself, therefore making it point less. And surely a perfect argument is one that can be reduced to a mere 3 words!

This is all in support of what we have termed the bleeding obvious in this discussion.

The point of the whole discussion thread is actually less than obvious. Replies to this thread have fallen into roughly 3 different types:

1. The Richmond supporters who are happy to stick the boots into Libba
2. The Bulldog supporters who have defended their player.
3. Supporters who are not attached to either clubs and have shaken their heads and tut-tutted at the sheer audactity(stupidity?) of my opening (only) statement.

The point being, the general perception of Libba in the football world is a hard, tough, tenacious battler who has also been know to resort to dirty tactics.

In contrast, the general perception of the likes of Wayne Campbell, Shane Crawford and James Hird (to name a few) is one of soft, pretty boy receivers.

I have had much amusement over the past few weeks (both here and on other football forums) defending Richmond in general and Campbell and Knights in particular about their hardness.

For I - being an acutely analytical person - have watched the Tigers very closely against all opposition and know that they are not "soft". Yet this perception still prevails.

Why?

Only a few years ago, Richmond were rightly ridiculed for being devoid of any skill and having to rely on manic, in your face aggression, non-stop tacking and seething passion in order to win games. This we did, with only mediocre success.

Since then, we have successfully added a fair bit of skill to basically the same core of players and now we have the perception of soft.

So what to do?

I can keep on ranting to anyone who will listen about this, but really, how much of this will seep in? Very little, I presume!

Or, maybe I can attack from the other way? Instead of challenging peoples perceptions of the supposed soft players, start questioning the hard players.

My opening statement was, admittedly, mischievous and intended for shock value. For all I know, this may well be the only instance in Libba's career where he has actually shirked the issue. My perception of Libba - although now slightly diminished - is still one of a hard player.

But, if this was the first game of Australian Rules I had ever seen and I saw him chicken out like that, I would immediately have the perveption that his is soft.

So, all I ask is that you seek to look past the perception a little and perhaps see the reality for what it actually is.

Now I am going to watch Buffy the Vampire Slayer!

 

[bulldogs1]

You lost me after the 3,000th word. Tolstoy's War and Peace would be easier to read. Comic strips here I come!

Originally posted by CJH
Bulldogs1,

A few points in my defence:

1. I don't think what qualifies a station as being 'pre-eminent' has actually been defined. If you choose to use higher rating as a means, than that is your perogative. I more so intended it to mean "of the highest quality". I was actually going to use the word "credible" but had used it in the previous sentence and didn't read too well.
2. I did indeed paraphrase what Southern said. I would have quoted him but couldn't remember word for word what he said. I don't think I have distorted the meaning of his comments though.
3. I made a clearly subjective statement and chose to back it up with an alternate source. How is this unusual? This is pretty much the norm in an academic paper. (without suggesting that what is posted here actually constitutes such a paper!)
4. You choose to dismiss the credibility of Southern as a witness. That is your opinion and your are entitled to argue it against my case. I was not aware that Southern was held with such contempt by the Bulldogs faithful though. Why is this?
5. I could have argued why I think Libba was soft - based on what I saw (It happened right in front of where I was sitting) and then supported it with Southerns version of events. I chose not to because I merely would have been repeating myself, therefore making it point less. And surely a perfect argument is one that can be reduced to a mere 3 words!

This is all in support of what we have termed the bleeding obvious in this discussion.

The point of the whole discussion thread is actually less than obvious. Replies to this thread have fallen into roughly 3 different types:

1. The Richmond supporters who are happy to stick the boots into Libba
2. The Bulldog supporters who have defended their player.
3. Supporters who are not attached to either clubs and have shaken their heads and tut-tutted at the sheer audactity(stupidity?) of my opening (only) statement.

The point being, the general perception of Libba in the football world is a hard, tough, tenacious battler who has also been know to resort to dirty tactics.

In contrast, the general perception of the likes of Wayne Campbell, Shane Crawford and James Hird (to name a few) is one of soft, pretty boy receivers.

I have had much amusement over the past few weeks (both here and on other football forums) defending Richmond in general and Campbell and Knights in particular about their hardness.

For I - being an acutely analytical person - have watched the Tigers very closely against all opposition and know that they are not "soft". Yet this perception still prevails.

Why?

Only a few years ago, Richmond were rightly ridiculed for being devoid of any skill and having to rely on manic, in your face aggression, non-stop tacking and seething passion in order to win games. This we did, with only mediocre success.

Since then, we have successfully added a fair bit of skill to basically the same core of players and now we have the perception of soft.

So what to do?

I can keep on ranting to anyone who will listen about this, but really, how much of this will seep in? Very little, I presume!

Or, maybe I can attack from the other way? Instead of challenging peoples perceptions of the supposed soft players, start questioning the hard players.

My opening statement was, admittedly, mischievous and intended for shock value. For all I know, this may well be the only instance in Libba's career where he has actually shirked the issue. My perception of Libba - although now slightly diminished - is still one of a hard player.

But, if this was the first game of Australian Rules I had ever seen and I saw him chicken out like that, I would immediately have the perveption that his is soft.

So, all I ask is that you seek to look past the perception a little and perhaps see the reality for what it actually is.

Now I am going to watch Buffy the Vampire Slayer!

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

Originally posted by Joffaboy
What a joke, Libba soft.....lololololololololololol.
I aint no Doggies supporter but he is the toughest most courageous player in the league.
The reason the Bulldog faithful booed Knights and Campbell was not because they thought they were dirty players, but gutless little laggers who cried to the AFL, one, after lying about the incident, and then changing his story.
Daffy hit Smith behind the play with an elbow and Smith needed 7 stiches in his chin. Did the Bulldogs whine like stuck pigs ala Richmonds pathetic performance? I dont think so.
And then a Richmond supporter basking in the hollow victory (hows Browns head, still on its shoulders?) proclaims Liberatore as soft.
What a typical piece of Richmond cowardice.

lets get a few things straight joffaboy you say knights was booed because he lagged when did he lagg? if my memory serves me right he was the victim!
if you want to call our club captain a lagger because of this unofficial players code sure this rule is fine in most cases but when a CLUB CAPTAIN sees one of his teamates get taken out 100 mtrs off the ball then qiet rightly the players code is thrown out the window.campbell has done a huge favor by coming fwd if he didnt thugatore would no doubt do it again if he had an opotunity.
cheers!

 

[Ted's Robot]

CJH I don't agree with much that you say but
Buffy The Vampire Slayer. What a show!!!! The Best

 

[bulldogs1]

Oh, that? That's in the dim dark past, forgotten about by all at Tigerland. Once that player is traded at the end of this year (would have been at the end of last year but no other team wanted him), then historical revisionism can begin.

And I can hear the chorus already .... "When Libba retires..", well don't hold your breath. Outlasted many other so-called better players, LOL, being SOFT and all.

Originally posted by Joffaboy


I would pick him in my side anytime before the three Richmond fairies I mentioned previously.
Tell me when are Richmond going to apologise for the behind the play attack on Rohan Smith or is that too much to ask?