Life after Hardwick

[SunshineBoy]

Our window was open in 2013 get over Friday night

 

[Bojangles17]

I think we came into finals underdone with too many injury woes leading up to it. Winning was a bad mask in the end and I do agree with the dwarf set up as the Grigg concept was dead three months ago. We needed somebody who could pinch hit in the ruck and go forward for a bit. Unfortunately the cupboard was bare in that area.

My biggest critique is we should have persevered with a sec tall option, we looked at Moore for 5min and put it to bed . Balta could have been tried v GC coming off good form, perfect. Our form was ok , however we were blindsided to the challengers closing the gap by not changing our setup one iota we had 12m of exposed form for our challengers to hatch a plan. A couple of things in dusty and astbury helped them, I genuinely believe they would have just made it closer rather than been the difference. It was the 2017 setup that ultimately cost us

 

[TigerImposter]

My biggest critique is we should have persevered with a sec tall option, we looked at Moore for 5min and put it to bed . Balta could have been tried v GC coming off good form, perfect. Our form was ok , however we were blindsided to the challengers closing the gap by not changing our setup one iota we had 12m of exposed form for our challengers to hatch a plan. A couple of things in dusty and astbury helped them, I genuinely believe they would have just made it closer rather than been the difference. It was the 2017 setup that ultimately cost us

I think there’s a lot of yes and no with that. The ruck is yes , but the game plan in general was still solid providtthe cattle were there.
I put up names of blokes who were not a 100% leading up to finals and this hurt us the most.
Butler
Lambert
Houli
Astbury
Prestia
Cotchin
Martin
Broad
Graham
Grigg

We weren’t winning anything in the end plus we’re still uncertain whether a bug went through other blokes as we looked sluggish all night except for a patch of about 20min.

 

[Bojangles17]

I think there’s a lot of yes and no with that. The ruck is yes , but the game plan in general was still solid providtthe cattle were there.
I put up names of blokes who were not a 100% leading up to finals and this hurt us the most.
Butler
Lambert
Houli
Astbury
Prestia
Cotchin
Martin
Broad
Graham
Grigg

We weren’t winning anything in the end plus we’re still uncertain whether a bug went through other blokes as we looked sluggish all night except for a patch of about 20min.

Do you think CCJ and Balta can play senior footy next year ?

 

[TigerImposter]

Do you think CCJ and Balta can play senior footy next year ?

I would like some cheap games into both of them , but Lynch coming may cost them the opportunities.
I still think Miller is ahead of them and he was never given the opportunity to show his true wares in the ruck . Balta is class personified and could be anything, but Miller is incredibly mobile and dangerous both in the air and on the carpet. I hope the club see what I’m seeing in him and give him a crack in the ruck next year. I believe had he gone in the ruck in the final against Essendon we would have won bc they couldn’t match up on him. A bit like Cox on Friday night. I reckon he’s ready to be thrown into the ruck against the lesser lights next year and Nankervis will be happy to have him around.
The problem of bringing Lynch into our side is it doesn’t solve the ruck problems and it will mean we will need to add a second tall. Will this make us slower and top heavy?

 

[SunshineBoy]

I think there’s a lot of yes and no with that. The ruck is yes , but the game plan in general was still solid providtthe cattle were there.
I put up names of blokes who were not a 100% leading up to finals and this hurt us the most.
Butler
Lambert
Houli
Astbury
Prestia
Cotchin
Martin
Broad
Graham
Grigg

We weren’t winning anything in the end plus we’re still uncertain whether a bug went through other blokes as we looked sluggish all night except for a patch of about 20min.

TI I wasn’t at 5he game , it’s a bit hard to tell on tv , but was there more to the virus than they are letting on?

I found them naming soldo as an emergency strange given he hadn’t played for two weeks and in all honesty isn’t anywhere near first team selection or at least shouldn’t be, was there a cloud over others apart from Astbury and cotch with the gastro?

Can anybody else shed some light?

 

[RunningBounce]

Like someone from the 2s? They looked at that, no one ready to step up. No point going with a solution that's worse than the status quo. The decision was obviously to run with the current strategy, and it gave us 18 wins.
Grundy outplayed Nank on Friday, that's happened before, and it wasn't the major problem that caused the loss.

They didn't play 2 rucks together all year, if i recall correctly.

Soldo's only game was vs Brisbane when Nank had a rest. They didn't ruck Moore when he played. They didn't try Garthy again, after he showed a bit in the pre-season. So i stand by my "they did SFA".

Any solution is gunna take some game time to work it through. Like the mosquito fleet last year.

We just did what we did in the ruck in 2017, and hoped for the best. Surprise, surprise, with 22 games to prepare, they worked over our weakness.

i agree Grundy didn't win the game off his own bat, but he was a very significant contributor, especially thumping the ball 15m clear against Grigg. Or kicking a goal from his own hit-out in the forward pocket. Or his 5 clearances - 2 from the centre.

Cox took 8 contested marks. Richmond took 9. A different ruck set-up would have been handy to have as an option, at least.

 

[TigerImposter]

TI I wasn’t at 5he game , it’s a bit hard to tell on tv , but was there more to the virus than they are letting on?

I found them naming soldo as an emergency strange given he hadn’t played for two weeks and in all honesty isn’t anywhere near first team selection or at least shouldn’t be, was there a cloud over others apart from Astbury and cotch with the gastro?

Can anybody else shed some light?

A lot of blokes didn’t seem as alert and active as they normally do and it was puzzling all night. It could have some merit to it and add a handful of blokes carrying niggles it was always going to be a long night in the office. I wish the week never existed. The Soldo notion had to do with possibly something not right with Nank as I could never imagine him playing in an AFL final alongside Nank irrespective of the Cox Grundy combo. It just would have made us too slow . That kick by Conca where he hit the boundary OOBOTF from 40m away could only be executed by a man suffering from blurred double vision due to some ailment as nobody could possibly be that bad.

 

[Bojangles17]

I would like some cheap games into both of them , but Lynch coming may cost them the opportunities.
I still think Miller is ahead of them and he was never given the opportunity to show his true wares in the ruck . Balta is class personified and could be anything, but Miller is incredibly mobile and dangerous both in the air and on the carpet. I hope the club see what I’m seeing in him and give him a crack in the ruck next year. I believe had he gone in the ruck in the final against Essendon we would have won bc they couldn’t match up on him. A bit like Cox on Friday night. I reckon he’s ready to be thrown into the ruck against the lesser lights next year and Nankervis will be happy to have him around.
The problem of bringing Lynch into our side is it doesn’t solve the ruck problems and it will mean we will need to add a second tall. Will this make us slower and top heavy?

Interesting about Miller , the vfl reports are always glowing about him , do you think he is more of a follower than key back , big lump of a lad looks a bit like josh Jenkins

 

[Bojangles17]

A lot of blokes didn’t seem as alert and active as they normally do and it was puzzling all night. It could have some merit to it and add a handful of blokes carrying niggles it was always going to be a long night in the office. I wish the week never existed. The Soldo notion had to do with possibly something not right with Nank as I could never imagine him playing in an AFL final alongside Nank irrespective of the Cox Grundy combo. It just would have made us too slow . That kick by Conca where he hit the boundary OOBOTF from 40m away could only be executed by a man suffering from blurred double vision due to some ailment as nobody could possibly be that bad.

Lol that last line some of your best work TI , you had me hook line and sinker , can someone help me out what the hell did lambert slip on at that pivotal moment , looked like a banana peel

 

[TigerImposter]

Interesting about Miller , the vfl reports are always glowing about him , do you think he is more of a follower than key back , big lump of a lad looks a bit like josh Jenkins

I want him in the ruck bc he’s aggressive and powerful. The backline thing was shown up not to work and when he was moved forward into an attacking position he looked dangerous and bloody good. Unfortunately the ball didn’t wander down there enough for him. To me he’s a genuine ruck/ forward type.

 

[TigerImposter]

Lol that last line some of your best work TI , you had me hook line and sinker , can someone help me out what the hell did lambert slip on at that pivotal moment , looked like a banana peel

Oh s**t the slipping over was evident all night. It did my xxxxing head in and must of been due to wobbly legs bc of a mystery bug in their system. Is it alright to cry?

 

[RunningBounce]

Do you think CCJ and Balta can play senior footy next year ?

Balta is raw. Real raw. His highlights are great, but if you go to the VFL, you'll agree his concentration lapses are just as bad. He has the athletic attributes but probably needs an older head on his shoulders before his ready. Who knows how long that takes? Might be ready in 2019... Only one way to find out. (But i don't think his an AFL level ruck, for what its worth. Love to see him as a massive winger - KMac but bigger, faster, stronger and better skills.)

CCJ, on the other hand, looks like he was born a 40 year old. Very steady. Always does the right thing. Never flustered, never out of position. And pretty handy forward! But his skinny. So skinny... He will be an AFL level ruck, injuries permitting, but needs to start eating steak for brekky to be ready for 2019.

Don't write off Soldo or even Chol either. The improvement they've both shown is something. But they won't get better playing VFL.

Whoever it is, they'll need to be selected to play seniors and persisted with for more than 2 games. Any of them will need AFL game time. Fitting one of them in this team will mean a re-jig - maybe KMac out and Rioli to a wing.

imo, its worth it, at least for certain games vs Collingwood, Melbourne, WCE, maybe Sydney at the SCG and Crows + Port at AO. (Coincidence that tall, contested marking teams make 3 out of the prelim finalists?)

 

[Phar Ace]

A lot of blokes didn’t seem as alert and active as they normally do and it was puzzling all night. It could have some merit to it and add a handful of blokes carrying niggles it was always going to be a long night in the office. I wish the week never existed. The Soldo notion had to do with possibly something not right with Nank as I could never imagine him playing in an AFL final alongside Nank irrespective of the Cox Grundy combo. It just would have made us too slow . That kick by Conca where he hit the boundary OOBOTF from 40m away could only be executed by a man suffering from blurred double vision due to some ailment as nobody could possibly be that bad.

You and I both got a good look at Soldo in the lead up to this game, and he was only ever named as an emergency in case something bizarre happened to Nank - was never going play, and if he did, our score line could have looked worse than Melb v WC. Soldo is a pinch hitter at best, protects CCJ and Colly for the time being. Tries really hard though.

The biggest mistake on the night for mine I have mentioned elsewhere - not starting Grimes on DeGoey, despite what DH said about players having zones. Said to U2 Tigers in the morning of the game day, this had to be our No1 start point. It was a bizarre it took so long.

The other major fail for mine and again said it pre-game, that if Sidebottom got off whatever chain we started with, we had to put Cotchin to him. The only way we could eventually turn a negative into a positive. I think Graham went to him initially, but 40+ touches later he had set so much up for the win.

No could have predicted the size of the impact that Cox was about to have. Collingwood were setting up holes a Mack Truck could park in. That is playing to his strength. Why we didn't sacrifice MacIntosh is beyond me. Was our next big bodied player available for that role and should have switched him with Houli much earlier. Was calling for mid game - but we just let it keep happening.

Getting back to Hardwick specifically, I'm not sure he could have won. Something was awry anyway. Love to know if the Grimes match up was discussed as a valid option and which coaches plucked for it and which ones didn't? It was like a game of 500 and we let Collingwood win the bid and we just followed each card they led. We did/had nothing to trump with.

 

[Phar Ace]

I want him in the ruck bc he’s aggressive and powerful. The backline thing was shown up not to work and when he was moved forward into an attacking position he looked dangerous and bloody good. Unfortunately the ball didn’t wander down there enough for him. To me he’s a genuine ruck/ forward type.

He's a good lump of a lad isn't he. We could both see the impact he was having on every contest he entered. Something good came from it, either by hand, or by body blocking, or punishing bump/tackle. He's still raw too, but more advanced that CCJ and Cholly. His big knock is his height at 195cm - to put that in perspective he is just 4cm taller than Jordan DeGoey - or was. He seemed bigger than that. I hope he gets closer to 200cm and if he does get to say 198 with his frame and competiveness, we have a footballer that can do for Hardwick what Grigger tries to do.

 

[TigerImposter]

You and I both got a good look at Soldo in the lead up to this game, and he was only ever named as an emergency in case something bizarre happened to Nank - was never going play, and if he did our score line could have looked worse that Melb v WC. Soldo is a pinch hitter at best, protects CCJ and Colly for the time being. Tries really hard though.

The biggest mistake on the night for mine I have mentioned elsewhere - not starting Grimes on DeGoey, despite what DH said about players having zones. Said to U2 Tigers in the morning of the game day, this had to be our No1 start point. It was a bizarre it took so long.

The other major fail for mine and again said it pre-game, that if Sidebottom got off whatever chain we started with, we had to put Cotchin to him. The only way we could eventually turn a negative into a positive. I think Graham went to him initially, but 40+ touches later he had set so much up for the win.

No could have predicted the size of the impact that Cox was about to have. Collingwood were setting up holes a Mack Truck could park in. That is playing to his strength. Why we didn't sacrifice MacIntosh is beyond me. Was our next big bodied player available for that role and should have switched him with Houli much earlier. Was calling for mid game - but we just let it keep happening.

I'm not sure we could have won. Something was awry anyway. Love to know if the Grimes match up was discussed as a valid option and which coaches plucked for it and which ones didn't? It was like a game of 500 and we let Collingwood win the bid and we just followed each card they led. We did/had nothing to trump with.

I thought I stated earlier to another poster not to mention those nightmare matchups as they killed me and here your are torturing me with them.
Yep our coaches had a mare of a night, but speaking to another bloke he reckons Rance would have put up his hand to play on DeGoey. If so then this makes it sound worse than it was.

 

[SunshineBoy]

They didn't play 2 rucks together all year, if i recall correctly.

Soldo's only game was vs Brisbane when Nank had a rest. They didn't ruck Moore when he played. They didn't try Garthy again, after he showed a bit in the pre-season. So i stand by my "they did SFA".

Any solution is gunna take some game time to work it through. Like the mosquito fleet last year.

We just did what we did in the ruck in 2017, and hoped for the best. Surprise, surprise, with 22 games to prepare, they worked over our weakness.

i agree Grundy didn't win the game off his own bat, but he was a very significant contributor, especially thumping the ball 15m clear against Grigg. Or kicking a goal from his own hit-out in the forward pocket. Or his 5 clearances - 2 from the centre.

Cox took 8 contested marks. Richmond took 9. A different ruck set-up would have been handy to have as an option, at least.

That is my question Soldo was never going to play unless , was the virus thing more widespread than intimated?

Why would you name a guy who would never get a gig unless they had concerns.

FWIW Astbury was selfish , clearly affected they had Garth as an emergency as well makes you wonder

 

[TigerImposter]

He's a good lump of a lad isn't he. We could both see the impact he was having on every contest he entered. Something good came from it, either by hand, or by body blocking, or punishing bump/tackle. He's still raw too, but more advanced that CCJ and Cholly. His big knock is his height at 195cm - to put that in perspective he is just 4cm taller than Jordan DeGoey - or was. He seemed bigger than that. I hope he gets closer to 200cm and if he does get to say 198 with his frame and competiveness, we have a footballer that can do what Grigger tries to do.

Oh yeah he showed this talent in three games this year and for a first year giant I was impressed. I can’t wait to see him with another preseason in him.
I’m puzzled with his height as he looks gigantic and I’ve walked past him dozens of times this year. I must have bloody shrunk then.

 

[Phar Ace]

I thought I stated earlier to another poster not to mention those nightmare matchups as they killed me and here your are torturing me with them.
Yep our coaches had a mare of a night, but speaking to another bloke he reckons Rance would have put up his hand to play on DeGoey. If so then this makes it sound worse than it was.

Damien claimed in his presser that by playing a particular defensive zone it meant players took whoever was nearest! I found that a staggering explanation. All Collingwood had to do was sit DeGoey in the goal square and he became Rance's man. No freedom to intercept and zone off like 18 of 22 games before it. We played whatever cards we were given.

 

[Phar Ace]

Oh yeah he showed this talent in three games this year and for a first year giant I was impressed. I can’t wait to see him with another preseason in him.
I’m puzzled with his height as he looks gigantic and I’ve walked past him dozens of times this year. I must have bloody shrunk then.

You are supposed to put the manure IN the water you stand in - not just hold it in the palm of your hand

 

[TigerImposter]

Damien claimed in his presser that by playing a particular defensive zone it meant players took whoever was nearest! I found that a staggering explanation. All Collingwood had to do was sit DeGoey in the goal square and he became Rance's man. No freedom to intercept and zone off like 18 of 22 games before it. We played whatever cards we were given.

Exactly that’s how I saw it. Rance was forced deep and just got slaughtered for speed. This is not Rance’s game and why Grimes was the man for the job. Dumb coaching as you match players up to their strengths to minimise opportunities for the opposition. The whole crowd could see it , yet it continued.

 

[Phar Ace]

That is my question Soldo was never going to play unless , was the virus thing more widespread than intimated?

Why would you name a guy who would never get a gig unless they had concerns.

FWIW Astbury was selfish , clearly affected they had Garth as an emergency as well makes you wonder

Maybe it was more widespread.... but virus or not, you have to name Soldo as an emergency in case Nank does something bizarre in the warm up say.

I'm glad we didn't play Garthwaite. It would have been a massacre. I like him a lot, but he's not ready for that yet. His game against James Stewart two weeks ago was testimony to that.

 

[Tiges1229]

That is my question Soldo was never going to play unless , was the virus thing more widespread than intimated?

Why would you name a guy who would never get a gig unless they had concerns.

FWIW Astbury was selfish , clearly affected they had Garth as an emergency as well makes you wonder

I actually had Gastro early Thursday morning and was in bed most of the day and wasn’t actually going to go Fri night and I was a write off that whole Thursday afternoon and night , By Fri nafternoin I was a lot better but still massively void of energy etc . So if Astbury did have Gastro as they said then he shouldn’t have played imo .

 

[TigerImposter]

I actually had Gastro early Thursday morning and was in bed most of the day and wasn’t actually going to go Fri night and I was a write off that whole Thursday afternoon and night , By Fri nafternoin I was a lot better but still massively void of energy etc . So if Astbury did have Gastro as they said then he shouldn’t have played imo .

You must have been that bloke in front of me farting all night.

 

[Tiges1229]

You must have been that bloke in front of me farting all night.

Lol nah mate I actually didn’t eat any food until Sunday .