Light at the end of the tunnel

noddy

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It’s taken a while but I have finally removed the blinkers & come to the conclusion that is shared by Ant, Dyertribe & some others that our list is not quite as good as we had been led to believe it was prior to the start of 2003.

But all is not lost just yet & even though Gary Ayres is under the pump & faces a very tough task in making the eight let alone the top four we can still get something out of this season that could set us up for the future.

Even though our current crop of juniors have not yet set the world on fire we have to get our structure set in place with what we already have & in my mind that means for the remainder of this year playing McGregor & Hentschel as our 2 kp backman with Perrie (chf) & Rutten (ff) as the main targets up forward leaving Carey to play out of a pocket in support of them , if we make the finals well & good & if not well at least we will know one way or the other if the spine we have in place is the one to go with or look else where i.e. = Kruger & Watts, trade/draft.

On Gary Ayres I would like to see all AFC supporters get behind him for as long as he is with us & if he is to remain as senior coach beyond 2004 then for gods sake get some fresh blood in the coaching box along side him who at least can bring fresh ideas/thoughts with him.
 

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#2
Hear Hear.

Actually that spine looks a lot better than the one we currently have.

Still play Jericho, Reilly Schuback, Hudson, and the likes od Bock, Watts and Krueger later on in the year.

And yeah, get Hudson to be our #1 ruckman, at least he can take a mark and get some possesions in field play AND his ruckwork is improving rapidly.
 

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#3
Ditto.

I still think we need to make some tough decisions at the end of the year regarding certain players. We need to draft some quality youngsters.
 

Alex99

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#4
l can not see BEN RUTTEN making any impact at AFL level, Not a lot of pace so can not be a KF. Good at SANFL level but Unfortunately for the kid will never be a good AFL player
 

Alex99

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#5
Originally posted by noddy
It’s taken a while but I have finally removed the blinkers & come to the conclusion that is shared by Ant, Dyertribe & some others that our list is not quite as good as we had been led to believe it was prior to the start of 2003.


On Gary Ayres I would like to see all AFC supporters get behind him for as long as he is with us & if he is to remain as senior coach beyond 2004 then for gods sake get some fresh blood in the coaching box along side him who at least can bring fresh ideas/thoughts with him.
Other than Rutten , good post and for god sake who ever the coach is lets give him some support and show some faith in him.

but benny rutten is going to be a usefull defender so l am not saying de list him but he isnt going to be a forward. that 3rd tall defender has always been our downfall.
 

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#6
Originally posted by crows98
l can not see BEN RUTTEN making any impact at AFL level, Not a lot of pace so can not be a KF. Good at SANFL level but Unfortunately for the kid will never be a good AFL player
I think you need glasses then. There have been many, many good to excellent full forwards who have little or no pace. Rutten is the kind of bloke who only needs to dash a few yards and is capable of muscling out defenders to take contested marks - ala Lynch.

We definitely don't want him as a third tall defender, he is not agile enough. Bloody Bassett would be better for that.

But Rutten, with his excellent upper body physique (probably the best for a KP in our team, bar Carey...but that's another story), is the perfect guy we need for a muscle and contest full forward.
 

Stiffy_18

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#7
Re: Re: Light at the end of the tunnel

Originally posted by crows98
Other than Rutten , good post and for god sake who ever the coach is lets give him some support and show some faith in him.

but benny rutten is going to be a usefull defender so l am not saying de list him but he isnt going to be a forward. that 3rd tall defender has always been our downfall.
You're kidding:confused:

Ben Rutten can't be a forward because he lacks pace but he can be a key defender:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

You need more pace as a defender than you do as a forward. Ben Rutten gets found out for the lack of pace as a key defender in SANFL, so god help him at AFL level.

Rutten is best suited as a FF in the AFL. He is very strong and he doesn't rely on fast leads to get his marks. He takes a few steps forward then he can out muscle his defender. He is probably one of our best markers in a body on body contest. Rutten is a smart player who is well aware of his deficencies and strengths. He uses his strengths well do he can reduce the impact his weaknesses can potentially have.

FF or bust for me. Either way he is a bloke who is worth keeping for depth and he is still pretty young. Quickest pair of hands on our list.
 
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#8
Originally posted by McLeod23
Ditto.

I still think we need to make some tough decisions at the end of the year regarding certain players. We need to draft some quality youngsters.
Kevin Sheahn was on Melb radio toninght, saying the draft should be pretty good this year, and largely unaffected by the 2 month change in age qualification.
Apparently only 2 of the current crop of acedamy youngsters are affected by the 2 month change.
Of the prospects for this year, there are 3 quality ruckman, all 203-207 cm and growing - one is the West Adelaide kid.
Theres also a couple of WA boys Kevin raved about - forgot their names, one was called buddy (nickname I think).
The word is the top ten is as good as its been, but a bit early to judge the depth of the draft, until the U18 squads are announced, and played.
 
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#9
Originally posted by spindoctor
I
But Rutten, with his excellent upper body physique (probably the best for a KP in our team, bar Carey...but that's another story), is the perfect guy we need for a muscle and contest full forward.
Trouble is he doesn't appear to want to use that physique, not a physical player - shame, if he learnt how he could be very good, what with his very good footy brain.
 
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#11
Originally posted by spindoctor
Nah, I reckon he is physical, and I reckon he at least needs a run to prove himself.
You have to say the games he's played he hasn't been disappointing - would like to see how he goes over a sustained number of games.
My point on his physicality is that he appears laconic on the field, almost half pace.
You don't see him backing into packs - he either takes the back position to edge them under the ball, or leads from the front.
 

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Stiffy_18

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#12
Originally posted by Wayne's-World
Kevin Sheahn was on Melb radio toninght, saying the draft should be pretty good this year, and largely unaffected by the 2 month change in age qualification.
Apparently only 2 of the current crop of acedamy youngsters are affected by the 2 month change.
Of the prospects for this year, there are 3 quality ruckman, all 203-207 cm and growing - one is the West Adelaide kid.
Theres also a couple of WA boys Kevin raved about - forgot their names, one was called buddy (nickname I think).
The word is the top ten is as good as its been, but a bit early to judge the depth of the draft, until the U18 squads are announced, and played.
I like the sound of that :D

That West Adelaide kid goes by the name of Cameron Wood and someone said he is a softie like Ben Marsh :(

There is a good young midfielder from Sturt. His name escapes me ATM

This is the year to get priority picks :D

I think this draft has got some top quality talls so I reckon our recruiting department will go for onballers at all costs.:rolleyes:
 
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#14
Originally posted by Stiffy_18
I like the sound of that :D

That West Adelaide kid goes by the name of Camron Wood and someone said he is a softie like Ben Marsh :(

This is the year to get priority picks :D

I think this draft has got some top quality talls so I reckon our recruiting department will go for onballers at all costs.:rolleyes:
Not priority picks, just a couple of top 10 picks please - would guarantee us a ruckman and KPP, as can't see 3 ruckmen going in top 10?

With Cameron Wood, if your 17, 203cm beanpole, your not going to have the co-ordination or strength to play a physical game.
Hopefully his personality is such, that it will come in time with some maturity.
 

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#17
Originally posted by Wayne's-World
1. Not priority picks, just a couple of top 10 picks please - would guarantee us a ruckman and KPP, as can't see 3 ruckmen going in top 10?

2. With Cameron Wood, if your 17, 203cm beanpole, your not going to have the co-ordination or strength to play a physical game.
Hopefully his personality is such, that it will come in time with some maturity.
1. I think you are mistaken because if there is a young ruckman who is a gun he will go top 10 regardless. In fact if there are 5 young gun ruckman out there I bet all 5 will go top 10.

The hardest players to come across and any oportunity to get one should be grabbed with both hands.

2. Not neccesarily. Rowan Andrews from our Rookie list was always a physical 198 cm beanpole who went in hard and never backed out of a contest. You either have it or you don't. You can teach it to some degree but unless you are physical by nature, its hard to turn into a tough nut. Watts is a bloody beanpole but he is not afraid to crash the pack and play physical game.
 

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#18
Originally posted by DaveW
Why wouldn't we take a top quality on-baller(s) after we went exclusively for talls last time?
Because I think in first round and especially in top 10 you go for the best available despite their position. Now if the players available are of "same value" then you tend to pick on needs basis. If one is of better quality that the other you go for better prospect.

Talls will ALWAYS have more trade value than smalls. Just look at the Brooks trade. Port got Salopek and a pick that was part of Pickett trade for unproven ruckman taken in top 15 the previous year.
 

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#19
Originally posted by Wayne's-World
Also hope that its an even season, so no team gets a priority pick.
Bumps us up in the pecking order.
But if we are the only side eligible for priority picks we get the best picks in each round.

Even if we are not the only side with 5 wins or less, we still get 2 picks in the top 10.
 
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#20
Originally posted by Stiffy_18
1. I think you are mistaken because if there is a young ruckman who is a gun he will go top 10 regardless. In fact if there are 5 young gun ruckman out there I bet all 5 will go top 10.

The hardest players to come across and any oportunity to get one should be grabbed with both hands.

2. Not neccesarily. Rowan Andrews from our Rookie list was always a physical 198 cm beanpole who went in hard and never backed out of a contest. You either have it or you don't. You can teach it to some degree but unless you are physical by nature, its hard to turn into a tough nut. Watts is a bloody beanpole but he is not afraid to crash the pack and play physical game.
I know all clubs say they take the best available, but I would argue, there'e a fair percentage that take players to fit team requirements (us last year).
So I can't agree with your first point.

On the second I do agree completely.
However most super tall ruckmen aren't agile or quick enough in juniors, its a different gamestyle.
I don't think you would have said Rehn as a junior was what you called a physically agressive ruckman, but if Wood was anything like him I'd be happy.
 
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#21
Originally posted by Stiffy_18
Because I think in first round and especially in top 10 you go for the best available despite their position. Now if the players available are of "same value" then you tend to pick on needs basis. If one is of better quality that the other you go for better prospect.

Talls will ALWAYS have more trade value than smalls. Just look at the Brooks trade. Port got Salopek and a pick that was part of Pickett trade for unproven ruckman taken in top 15 the previous year.
Unless you had a top 3 pick, I would always go for need in the top 10.
Usually fairly even, likely to get as good a midfielder as tall.
Melbourne went for Sylvia and Maclean, as need players, to boost their midfield.
Cannot see anything wrong at all with their thought process.
The midfield is the most important area of the ground, our midfield needs re-bolstering, our midfield stars are ageing, and draft picks take 3 years to come through.
Agree with Dave W on this. However a 2nd pick could then give us either a ruckman/KPP and thats our needs.
 

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#22
Originally posted by Wayne's-World
On the second I do agree completely.
However most super tall ruckmen aren't agile or quick enough in juniors, its a different gamestyle.
I don't think you would have said Rehn as a junior was what you called a physically agressive ruckman, but if Wood was anything like him I'd be happy.
I wouldn't be happy I would be stoked :p

Last year we had to go for talls because we had sweet bugger all and I would argue we selected the best available. Whne you are not a rebuilding side you probably make selection son needs basis but if you are well off in every department (ala Port) you go for the best available.

Port always selects best available, whether they are small, medium, tall, midfielder, forward, defender or ruckman. They always pick best available and that why they do so well out of drafting (of course you have to be good at judging the talent).

In 2001 draft Port got Brooks with their first pick despite having 4 ruckman on their list at the time and all 4 capable AFL players. A year later they just about doubled their investment. Just because they went for best available.
 

Stiffy_18

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#23
Originally posted by Wayne's-World
The midfield is the most important area of the ground, our midfield needs re-bolstering, our midfield stars are ageing, and draft picks take 3 years to come through.
Don't have a problem with that BUT it is much much harder to find a good KPP or a ruckman than it is to find a midfielder. Why do you think talls have much higher trade value than midfielders???? Because they are easier to find.
 
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#24
Got the names mentioned from Kevin Sheahn interview on top 2004 draft picks

Cameron Wood - 203cm
Fabian Deluca - brother of Carlton player 203cm
Mark Lynch
Brett Deludio - 207 cm
Mitch Morton - WA
Lance "Buddy" Franklin (possible top 5 pick)....... WA
 
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#25
Originally posted by Stiffy_18
I wouldn't be happy I would be stoked :p

Last year we had to go for talls because we had sweet bugger all and I would argue we selected the best available. Whne you are not a rebuilding side you probably make selection son needs basis but if you are well off in every department (ala Port) you go for the best available.

Port always selects best available, whether they are small, medium, tall, midfielder, forward, defender or ruckman. They always pick best available and that why they do so well out of drafting (of course you have to be good at judging the talent).

In 2001 draft Port got Brooks with their first pick despite having 4 ruckman on their list at the time and all 4 capable AFL players. A year later they just about doubled their investment. Just because they went for best available.
When your team is travelling well, your right you can take best available, but not in our position.
 
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