Lights Out!

[nut]

http://www.smh.com.au/comment/on-cl...rmany-is-a-success-story-20151202-gldimv.html

 

[Pessimistic]

It is both sides.

An independent body like the RBA is required along with a media ban preventing politicians discussing the energy sector is required. Politicians use certain issues to create relevance for themselves and the more they meddle, the more F'd up the issue......the more relevant they become.

We have seen this with the boats and immigration. We have seen this with health and education (slightly different reasons). We have seen this in energy.

Yet the RBA has been solid as a rock.

The politicians need to back off and leave it to experts rather than popularity contests to undermine the nation and the economy.

Tend to agree. But eventually those politicians are redundant

Another modern problem is an army of spin doctors consultants and other lacks where once there was a motivated and impartial public service to do that stuff. Over half of defence headcount is actually individual contractors

 

[Power Raid]

The energy market is in the private sectors hands.. how's that working for us? Our natural resources getting shipped overseas at bargain basement prices and we are paying premium dollars here?? Is that the governments fault?

of course it's the government's fault.

The policy setting by state and federal governments have been ludicrous and resulted in no investment in areas investment was required and over investment in areas it shouldn't.

Then subsidising expensive unreliable power made sense for the purpose of "contributing" to global R&D but using unreliable power for 20+% was lunacy. Wind and solar are low opex but high capex solutions, which is the right matrix long term but the unreliable nature meant caution should have been taken until energy storage solutions are possible. Note the battery solutions available today aren't sensible for the purpose announced this week.

Adding to that he carbon tax was lunacy, as it gave no consideration for jurisdiction needs. It also halted sensible investment until investment risk could be measured. The investments that were made were either ideologically driven rather than common sense or worse........cost plus protected. Over investing in cost plus is brilliant for the investor as the bigger the cost base, the bigger the profit.

the anti gas policies; one being shutting down exploration whilst then complaining about no gas is astounding.

My favourite on gas power is demanding gas power stations to enter into take or pay gas contracts but then not entering into take or pay contracts to buy the gas. This was a major reason why gas power doesn't turn on in times of need.....they aren't prepared.

It is easy to point the finger at private industry but perhaps you have to ask why multi-billion dollar industries with some of the best brains in the nation can't deliver power cheaply, reliably and safely as they once did. What changed?....... politics and their wonderful ability to make the simple very difficult.


Govt can set policy but they need to do so in recognition long term investments require long term certainty. Policy change must be clear and phased over time. Otherwise short-termism and ideology prevails.

 

[Power Raid]

Tend to agree. But eventually those politicians are redundant

Another modern problem is an army of spin doctors consultants and other lacks where once there was a motivated and impartial public service to do that stuff. Over half of defence headcount is actually individual contractors

yep

cover my arse rule mean no department or politician will do anything unless an EY or similar signs off.

The big issue for me is the governments inability to contract. A simple commercial review of "how can this contract be leveraged or cheated" should be applied to every contract. Sadly contracts are often only reviewed by lawyers and there is a big difference between a commercial lawyer and being commercial.

 

[JackOutback]

It is easy to point the finger at private industry but perhaps you have to ask why multi-billion dollar industries with some of the best brains in the nation can't deliver power cheaply, reliably and safely as they once did. What changed?....... politics and their wonderful ability to make the simple very difficult.

Traditionally, in this country, power was provided by the government and not private industry. In fact, it could be argued that much of the problems have set in since private industry took over. WA still has a state run power company and we don't have any issues with supply or reliability as it stands.

 

[Pie eyed]

About time you all woke up.

Both parties have stuffed the energy market and now the gas market is going the same way. Playing sides re this just lets these clowns get away with it by setting us against each other. Neither side has a policy, a plan or a vision. Its no good saying lets go renewable without planning for its short comings in the design of the National Grid. At this point, renewables are unreliable and expensive and unless you want to cripple the economy eg Sth Australia, proceed with caution.

Wetherall is a classic example, made terrible policy decisions based on ideaology without considering the facts. Andrews is now crippling Victoria and this will have a knock on effect to the rest of the country, especially SA as Hazelwood goes off line with no replacement for years. Bad policy, bad economics, bad leadership.

Labour had a price on carbon, a renewable energy plan, was heavily subsidising solar.....
Yeah! So both sides stuffed the energy market but one had a plan for the future....and one wanted you to pay through the arse for coal for the rest of your life.

 

[Sinjin Smith]

Frydenburg and Turnbull have been furiously googling terms like photo-voltaic. It's hilarious these gormless arseclown now expect the electorate to believe they were all over this, only hours away from suggest the same solutions before their thunder was stolen.
Frydenburg should resign in shame.

It very much reminds me of Abetz and Brandis explaining metadata.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

It very much reminds me of Abetz and Brandis explaining metadata.

 

[Power Raid]

Traditionally, in this country, power was provided by the government and not private industry. In fact, it could be argued that much of the problems have set in since private industry took over. WA still has a state run power company and we don't have any issues with supply or reliability as it stands.

And we also haven't got 20+% wind

Our only major issue historically was Rick Stowe and his cosy relationship with the union.

Some aspects of that relationship were very curious. Oh and another cost plus contract ripping off the public.

 

[Power Raid]

Labour had a price on carbon, a renewable energy plan, was heavily subsidising solar.....
Yeah! So both sides stuffed the energy market but one had a plan for the future....and one wanted you to pay through the arse for coal for the rest of your life.

Do you not see your comment doesn't marry real life?

 

[VineyIsLORD]

When the Federal Liberal Party, in government, is getting absolutely trounced by a South Australian premier who is odds on to get turfed next election (though probably not now) you know you have a pack of incompetents running the country

 

[VineyIsLORD]

About time you all woke up.

Both parties have stuffed the energy market and now the gas market is going the same way. Playing sides re this just lets these clowns get away with it by setting us against each other. Neither side has a policy, a plan or a vision. Its no good saying lets go renewable without planning for its short comings in the design of the National Grid. At this point, renewables are unreliable and expensive and unless you want to cripple the economy eg Sth Australia, proceed with caution.

Wetherall is a classic example, made terrible policy decisions based on ideaology without considering the facts. Andrews is now crippling Victoria and this will have a knock on effect to the rest of the country, especially SA as Hazelwood goes off line with no replacement for years. Bad policy, bad economics, bad leadership.

I would have a lot more respect for Wetherall if instead of promising to spend taxpayer money on building an entirely new Gas installation, he just seized the existing ones back from the private sector under the reasoning that they have proved incompetent and energy belongs in the hands of the people.

 

[VineyIsLORD]

Also gas companies in Victoria are screwing their workers over on dodgy EBA's

We're getting stooged on royalties, to the tune that Japan's government makes more money off our gas than we do

We nearly ran out of gas, despite being the world's biggest exporter

Our gas prices aren't even cheap!

When was the last time you heard of a petrol crisis in Saudi Arabia? That's right, ******* never.

Our country and its resources have been sold out from under us, and we have * all to show for it. Capitalism does not ******* work.

 

[nut]

Also gas companies in Victoria are screwing their workers over on dodgy EBA's

We're getting stooged on royalties, to the tune that Japan's government makes more of our gas than we do

We nearly ran out of gas, despite being the world's biggest exporter

Our gas prices aren't even cheap!

When was the last time you heard of a petrol crisis in Saudi Arabia? That's right, ******* never.

Our country and its resources have been sold out from under us, and we have **** all to show for it. Capitalism does not ******* work.

Capitalism is working just how it's designed to...

 

[VineyIsLORD]

Capitalism is working just how it's designed to...

No arguments there

 

[Dry Rot]

No gas reservation policy. Another huge Gillard govt stuff up

At the height of the minerals boom and the height of oil prices (which drive international gas prices) three of Australia's big gas producers each decided to build two giant freezing plants at Gladstone in central Queensland. The six "trains", each with a capacity to freeze and export half as much gas as eastern Australia used per year, would be connected to the network of pipes that extended all the way to Adelaide and Melbourne.

They signed cast-iron contracts to sell the gas to Japan, which was hungry for energy in the wake of the Fukushima nuclear disaster; contracts they needed in order to justify the enormous expense. Finding gas may have been a lower priority.

The Gillard government was relaxed, boastful even. It ruled out introducing a gas reservation policy along the lines of the one in Western Australia that stipulates that a certain percentage of local gas has to be retained for local consumption. Without quite realising, it approved the creation of what an AGL executive later described as a "giant vacuum cleaner for the east coast gas market, hoovering up all the gas it can get its hands on".

http://www.smh.com.au/comment/how-the-big-three-robbed-us-of-our-own-gas-20170315-guydtp.html

 

[Hawk Dork]

No super profits tax either

 

[WCE1987]

The energy market is in the private sectors hands.. how's that working for us? Our natural resources getting shipped overseas at bargain basement prices and we are paying premium dollars here?? Is that the governments fault?

This is the down side of every state taking a different approach to power. Especially when In the eastern states you all share energy.
QLD labor allowed for the gas to exported without setting a demostic supply limit .
http://www.news.com.au/finance/econ...s/news-story/4187e60617aec18e87d57453cfca0167


We are lucky in the west we set domestic reserve limits, and have built our grid to be self sufficient due to distance.

 

[WCE1987]

No gas reservation policy. Another huge Gillard govt stuff up



http://www.smh.com.au/comment/how-the-big-three-robbed-us-of-our-own-gas-20170315-guydtp.html

Don't worry Labor will just blame the issue on LNP anyway.

 

[Hawk Dork]

Frack more gas and no mining super profits tax or carbon tax is the LNP solution

 

[VineyIsLORD]

Jay seems like an opportunistic campaigner, wasn't even meant to be at that event. Only SA energy minister was attending. Feel bad for SA if they get stuck with that DH party for another term

He was invited so i dont see how he wasnt meant to be there?

If SA alternative is the Libs i mean s**t, that aint no choice at all. The LNP are dead in the water. Absolutely useless.

 

[WCE1987]

He was invited so i dont see how he wasnt meant to be there?

If SA alternative is the Libs i mean s**t, that aint no choice at all. The LNP are dead in the water. Absolutely useless.

It was only meant to be state and federal energy ministers, they were not expecting jay.

Over the last 10yrs

Federal labor let gas go without a reserve for the east.

Qld labor lets gas go with out a state qld reserve

VIC labor didnt renew contracts for power into SA, causing SA power prices to go up

SA labor invest to much in renewables and now back flipping to invest in gas which is not a renewable

Well good luck with more labor terms to fix the energy in the east

 

[nut]

No gas reservation policy. Another huge Gillard govt stuff up



http://www.smh.com.au/comment/how-the-big-three-robbed-us-of-our-own-gas-20170315-guydtp.html

Yep it's still Labors fault....

 

[nut]

It was only meant to be state and federal energy ministers, they were not expecting jay.

Over the last 10yrs

Federal labor let gas go without a reserve for the east.

Qld labor lets gas go with out a state qld reserve

VIC labor didnt renew contracts for power into SA, causing SA power prices to go up

SA labor invest to much in renewables and now back flipping to invest in gas which is not a renewable

Well good luck with more labor terms to fix the energy in the east

Do you reckon a mining tax may of helped? And with this tax revenue, a government that was committed to transitioning and working with the states into renewables? That may of helped too....
We are just a backwards country that the world uses as a quarry.

 

[VineyIsLORD]

It was only meant to be state and federal energy ministers, they were not expecting jay.

Over the last 10yrs

Federal labor let gas go without a reserve for the east.

Qld labor lets gas go with out a state qld reserve

VIC labor didnt renew contracts for power into SA, causing SA power prices to go up

SA labor invest to much in renewables and now back flipping to invest in gas which is not a renewable

Well good luck with more labor terms to fix the energy in the east

Capitalist parties are gunna do stuff like this.

But lets not pretend even for one moment that the LNP would have managed it better.