Analysis Lin Jong 2017

[King Harold]

Sounds like we agree.

I said 'some' crap on like Jong is the second coming, you said 'most' don't.

BRWB = 1
KH = 0
You win

 

[Yojimbo]

When it comes to the rookie list everyone loves talking up the
players like Dahlhaus, Johannisen, Morris and M.Boyd, but no
one talks up Lin Jong who it could be argued is the most
gifted player of the five. The fact Luke Beveridge talked him
into staying last year despite offers from Collingwood and
Gold Coast does make you wonder if there will be an
obligation to play the man at all. No mention of Hamling,
Hrovat or Stevens at the B&F, hmm interesting.

 

[BRWB]

When it comes to the rookie list everyone loves talking up the
players like Dahlhaus, Johannisen, Morris and M.Boyd, but no
one talks up Lin Jong who it could be argued is the most
gifted player of the five. The fact Luke Beveridge talked him
into staying last year despite offers from Collingwood and
Gold Coast does make you wonder if there will be an
obligation to play the man at all. No mention of Hamling,
Hrovat or Stevens at the B&F, hmm interesting.

Great post. Morris and Boyd already have AAs. JJ and Dahl were likely AA until injury last year.

If Jong is the most gifted of them all then Finey is amazingly perceptive and almost prescient...

Maybe the question should be not if Jong will make AA but how many AAs he will receive...

BRWB = 1
KH = 0
You win

There are no winners in this discussion.

Mods thread ban me please.

 

[BrisDog]

Easily best 22 rotating through the midfield/forward pocket. This is why other clubs were chasing him off season:

1. Hard as F*ck.
2. Great contested mark.
3. Very quick (quickest at the club?)
4. A good set shot for goal.

For these reasons he is loved by his team mates and a valued part of the list.

I am happy for him to be 'handball happy' in play, dishing it off to the better kicks in the team in the midfield, as long as they are not under the pump.

I don't understand why he is so divisive on this board. FFS we have had spuds on our list for 5-6 years who were not 1/8 the player Jong is and they were never criticised the way LJ is.

Best of luck for the year Jongy.

 

[Ozil]

I'm excited by his preseason form but he is what he is.

He'll explode through some packs, kick a few on the run, take a few grabs up forward, probably pick up an injury or two and barely make contact with the ball on about 40% of his handpasses.

He's a good fringe player.

Oh, and if I hear "not a natural footballer" I'm going to scream. He came through the same youth system as everyone else and has a contract with the premiers in a league that has chewed up and spat out plenty of others since.

You can think he's shit, but he's no less natural than someone like Ruggles who is objectively awful and never cops that label.

 

[stefoid]

I'm excited by his preseason form but he is what he is.

He'll explode through some packs, kick a few on the run, take a few grabs up forward, probably pick up an injury or two and barely make contact with the ball on about 40% of his handpasses.

He's a good fringe player.

Oh, and if I hear "not a natural footballer" I'm going to scream. He came through the same youth system as everyone else and has a contract with the premiers in a league that has chewed up and spat out plenty of others since.

You can think he's shit, but he's no less natural than someone like Ruggles who is objectively awful and never cops the unnatural tag.

OK, hes a natural footballer with great athletic abilities but below standard awareness, decision making and skills then.

better?

 

[Yojimbo]

Oakleigh Chargers at the Bulldogs (2017)

Rank 1- Lin Jong
Rank 2- Jackson Macrae
Rank 3- Toby McLean

Note- I know Macrae has played more games, but it's not
about quantity it's all about quality.

 

[Libba39]

Lin is an old style crash and bash footballer with a burst of speed from a stoppage that nobody (I repeat nobody)* on our team can match. He may not be the best on the park but he's as tough as they come and always gives 100%.

*maybe Stringer

 

[immortalmike]

Don't get the excitement over his preseason form. Looked to be the same old Jong.

If this were the 80s or early 90s I think he'd be a very good specialist spearhead forward, unfortunately much of his good work is undone when he runs through the midfield. I've never seen a player who's best and worst are both so far apart and so often on display (even in the same game). Frustrating player.

 

[Wetdog]

Like any fringe/depth player, Jong has attributes (e.g. speed, marking, goal kicking, contested work) and drawbacks (e.g. disposal and decision making).

If he can reduce the drawbacks, and deliver more of his attributes on a consistent basis, then he will have a fine career. If not, then he is destined for a 40-60 match career as a fringe/depth player who was never quite good enough to be any more.

The jury is out. The next two seasons will tell us a lot.

 

[Bazza Bulldog]

Oakleigh Chargers at the Bulldogs (2017)

Rank 1- Lin Jong
Rank 2- Jackson Macrae
Rank 3- Toby McLean

Note- I know Macrae has played more games, but it's not
about quantity it's all about quality.

No

 

[threenewpadlocks]

Jong has a half decent game and some folk crap on as if we've witnessed the second coming. It would be great if all the Jong goo could be contained in here. I'm sure that is this thread's intention and I applaud the OP for constructing a Jong goo containment vessel.

AFL ratings have Jong 17th (ahead of players missing lots of footy and noting mids are overrated in these ratings systems). His last B and F rated him 27th.

These would be facts showing Jong is depth. But there is no place for that sort of negative, borderline racist talk here. So...

FACT: Finey last night predicted Jong will be AA....

Isn't that exciting?

I've had more than my fair share of debates with you BRWB over the last 18 months about Jong, so I won't add to it here. But I do find it slightly amusing that you're using AFL Player Ratings Points against him for your own argument but chose to ignore them when he was consistently among our best in them last year. I'll just leave this here:

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/thre...go-to-from-here.1137514/page-33#post-46113602

 

[bontshow]

This is the sort of thing that might be better in here, fortunately it doesn't seem to have derailed the thread as yet

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/thre...od-banter-thread.1160182/page-4#post-49207850
https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/thre...od-banter-thread.1160182/page-5#post-49208592
https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/thre...od-banter-thread.1160182/page-5#post-49210801

 

[BEaston]

Wow. How someone could argue we won because of his injury, not in spite of it, just shows the level of delusion and hate. It's completely unwarranted and it just disgusts me that we have supporters out there like that. A sad indictment on a person's life in my opinion.

 

[Yojimbo]

No

What do you mean "No" ?

Clearly taking a "Port Phillip Bay" sized volume of piss with my
posts, sorry it got through the keeper.

 

[doggies ftw]

Will never be a gun but I could see him cementing a spot in the 22 this year, quite excited to see what he brings.

 

[the conch]

To calculate the predicted number of posts about Jong use this formula:

J = MD squared

It's called Libba's theory of negativity

lol

 

[the conch]

I have my doubts - hes the athlete, trying to become a footballer.

BUT. I had my doubts about young Easton as well. I think the thing common to both of those players is they have some kind of contested edge to them. Some athletic players dont, and they are the ones doomed to fail because without contested ability, you have to get by on your skills. Catch 22.

Easton didnt really flourish until we adopted the zone defence where he can play to his strengths. I dont think its that easy for Lin though.

Good analogy.
But Easton also had a lot of hamstring issues which held him back.

To me .. the Dogs let Koby go and kept Jong.
The team has great run all day accumalters and bulls in the middle but Jong has more speed.
I think Bev rates him. I mean he was in our finals line up and closes gaps out of the centre as good as anyone and dangerous going forward.
Jong has done well in big games and playing well against the Weagles before MCGovern really slammed him.
I also think his game sense and skills are much improved and there is a higher ceiling than most players and you always know he's going to give it a crack.

 

[yebiga]

He has some assets but he often nullifies those assets with serious clangers.
For me Jong will not make it unless he can take those big marks up forward using his leap. That is his special power. If he does a couple a game and slots 2/3 rds then the negatives become irrelevant.

It is within his grasp
Because his speed and leap make it difficult to match

 

[Next Waiting]

To calculate the predicted number of posts about Jong use this formula:

J = MD squared

It's called Libba's theory of negativity

I'm no Stephen Hawking Libba but your formula has been disproved many times. We know for certain that J > 0.

 

[BRWB]

I've had more than my fair share of debates with you BRWB over the last 18 months about Jong, so I won't add to it here. But I do find it slightly amusing that you're using AFL Player Ratings Points against him for your own argument but chose to ignore them when he was consistently among our best in them last year. I'll just leave this here:

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/thre...go-to-from-here.1137514/page-33#post-46113602

I don't rate AFL rating points but many do. Including Jong's ratings points (where he is again overrated IMO) just illustrates Jong is just depth whichever way you look at it.

Last year, I recall you highlighting ranking points to say Jong is good. I recall responding saying that the B and F would show how Jong is actually regarded compared to others on the list. He was rated 27 but lower on a votes per game basis.

I'll say it again, Jong is one of maybe two players on our list who can play so poorly that he actively turns matches in the opposition's favour. His best is just okay but that doesn't outweigh his worst or even his average.

But hey lets see how he goes this year.

My prediction is 12 games or less and he seeks a trade come year's end as he sees opportunities diminish and himself getting overtaken by younger players.

What is your prediction?

 

[threenewpadlocks]

I don't rate AFL rating points but many do. Including Jong's ratings points (where he is again overrated IMO) just illustrates Jong is just depth whichever way you look at it.

Last year, I recall you highlighting ranking points to say Jong is good. I recall responding saying that the B and F would show how Jong is actually regarded compared to others on the list. He was rated 27 but lower on a votes per game basis.

I'll say it again, Jong is one of maybe two players on our list who can play so poorly that he actively turns matches in the opposition's favour. His best is just okay but that doesn't outweigh his worst or even his average.

But hey lets see how he goes this year.

My prediction is 12 games or less and he seeks a trade come year's end as he sees opportunities diminish and himself getting overtaken by younger players.

What is your prediction?

He's played 29 games across the last 2 seasons in the windows that AFL Player Ratings look at. He's going to be ranked below those who have played at least 30 plus games in that same period of time.

When he returned to the team after his suspension last year, he was in the bottom 10 of our 22 only once in the games that he played, consistently showing how well he did. I'd take that over a ranking of 17th that can be twisted like you've just done.

I'm yet to see any evidence, video or statistical that you or MD have provided to make your claims that he actively helps the opposition. I'm happy to address such evidence when it's presented but until then it's just unfounded grandiose claims. Without any evidence except for my opinion,you can say literally anything and nobody can do anything to refute it.

What do I see with Jong? I see a player who is unique in the fact he's a hard/defensive oriented midfielder who can rest forward and kick a goal, and is increasingly understanding the limitations of his game. Not many players who lay five tackles a game also kick a goal a game like he does.

I'd like to see which younger players get a game ahead of him. I reckon he's already wrestled a spot of Dunkley, so he might be the only one. To think players like, say, Webb will take a spot off him is pretty delusional in my eyes. Jong significantly outperformed him when they were playing similar roles supporting Bont as inside midfielders in the games that Wallis/Libba/Macrae were injured in our 2nd matches vs Collingwood, North last year etc.

 

[BRWB]

He's played 29 games across the last 2 seasons in the windows that AFL Player Ratings look at. He's going to be ranked below those who have played at least 30 plus games in that same period of time.

When he returned to the team after his suspension last year, he was in the bottom 10 of our 22 only once in the games that he played, consistently showing how well he did. I'd take that over a ranking of 17th that can be twisted like you've just done.

I'm yet to see any evidence, video or statistical that you or MD have provided to make your claims that he actively helps the opposition. I'm happy to address such evidence when it's presented but until then it's just unfounded grandiose claims. Without any evidence except for my opinion,you can say literally anything and nobody can do anything to refute it.

What do I see with Jong? I see a player who is unique in the fact he's a hard/defensive oriented midfielder who can rest forward and kick a goal, and is increasingly understanding the limitations of his game. Not many players who lay five tackles a game also kick a goal a game like he does.

I'd like to see which younger players get a game ahead of him. I reckon he's already wrestled a spot of Dunkley, so he might be the only one. To think players like, say, Webb will take a spot off him is pretty delusional in my eyes. Jong significantly outperformed him when they were playing similar roles supporting Bont as inside midfielders in the games that Wallis/Libba/Macrae were injured in our 2nd matches vs Collingwood, North last year etc.

Watch the Saints game. Jong was shocking.

Watch Jong fluff a kick against a Freo at a critical point last year that was costly.

None of your analysis explains his incredibly poor B and F votes per game relative to the rest of the established players on the list. He just isn't rated as highly by the club (despite whatever they might say as the club never pots any player publicly) as AFL rankings suggest.

What is your prediction?

 

[threenewpadlocks]

Watch the Saints game. Jong was shocking.

Watch Jong fluff a kick against a Freo at a critical point last year that was costly.

None of your analysis explains his incredibly poor B and F votes per game relative to the rest of the established players on the list. He just isn't rated as highly by the club (despite whatever they might say as the club never pots any player publicly) as AFL rankings suggest.

What is your prediction?

I could equally point out two individual clangers from virtually every other player in the competition.

I'm unsure about how the coaches assess best and fairest votes so I can't comment on them.

 

[DelRe]

Watch the Saints game. Jong was shocking.

Watch Jong fluff a kick against a Freo at a critical point last year that was costly.

None of your analysis explains his incredibly poor B and F votes per game relative to the rest of the established players on the list. He just isn't rated as highly by the club (despite whatever they might say as the club never pots any player publicly) as AFL rankings suggest.

What is your prediction?

Do you have the full 2016 B&F result? I can only find 2015 which had him 16th (funnily enough above Roughhead and Toyd on less games) would just be interested to compare how they moved from 15 to 16.