Analysis Lin Jong 2017

[threenewpadlocks]

Obviously he played a poor game, but it's amazing how quick some are to come and criticise his performance which just as bad as 5-10 other on the field and gives no recognition that he's played 10 good games before this poor one. The vitriol from this poor performance, a single game, has already outweighed the minimal recognition that he has received from playing better than expectations to begin the season. He plays for a team that people here support, yet you wouldn't know it. Horrific.

 

[timtamWB]

Obviously he played a poor game, but it's amazing how quick some are to come and criticise his performance which just as bad as 5-10 other on the field and gives no recognition that he's played 10 good games before this poor one. The vitriol from this poor performance, a single game, has already outweighed the minimal recognition that he has received from playing better than expectations to begin the season. He plays for a team that people here support, yet you wouldn't know it. Horrific.

Allow me to respond based on my thoughts.

What happened in the past, was that there were a couple of extremely vocal posters that would constantly run Jong down and never give him any credit for anything good he did, and would campaign for him to be dropped and traded/delisted. And people got very sick of this.

As a response to this, coupled with Jong's good form so far this year, a couple of extremely vocal posters did the opposite, and have said things such as Jong is in the top dozen on our list, has been close to bog in games and has played extraordinary well so far this year. And people got very sick of this.

That has lead to a backlash back the other way, with people saying Jong is no good after a vocal minority have been building up Jong as an amazing player. It's nothing to do with Jong, it is everything to do with a group of 5 or 6 posters that are on extreme ends of the spectrum when it comes to him.

The reality is somewhere in the middle. Jong is a good depth player, that has been playing a bit better than that this year. However he still has multiple flaws that I personally think will not allow him to be a regular best 22 player.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

Allow me to respond based on my thoughts.

What happened in the past, was that there were a couple of extremely vocal posters that would constantly run Jong down and never give him any credit for anything good he did, and would campaign for him to be dropped and traded/delisted. And people got very sick of this.

As a response to this, coupled with Jong's good form so far this year, a couple of extremely vocal posters did the opposite, and have said things such as Jong is in the top dozen on our list, has been close to bog in games and has played extraordinary well so far this year. And people got very sick of this.

That has lead to a backlash back the other way, with people saying Jong is no good after a vocal minority have been building up Jong as an amazing player. It's nothing to do with Jong, it is everything to do with a group of 5 or 6 posters that are on extreme ends of the spectrum when it comes to him.

The reality is somewhere in the middle. Jong is a good depth player, that has been playing a bit better than that this year. However he still has multiple flaws that I personally think will not allow him to be a regular best 22 player.

Disagree. It's shameful to see people get joy out of seeing a Bulldogs player play badly, because it somehow validates their perceptions.

I believe some of the attacks on his game are racist in nature. I said it. People don't believe he can play well because he's the only player of his race in the AFL.

He plays one poor game in 11 and the posts pile up - one after another, one after another, using video, pointing out criticism, and all of a sudden claiming how one bad game outdoes 10 good ones and he's not one of the worst players on our list, etc. etc.

Where was that same video analysis or multiple pages after his multiple contested marks, or ball winning and evasion in packs? None of that. So you're trying to claim a middle ground as some sort of truth.

When the appeal to middle ground, or "argument to moderation" is a fallacy in itself, so I can't agree with the point that you're saying:

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/middle-ground
https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/tools/lp/Bo/LogicalFallacies/59/Argument-to-Moderation
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_to_moderation

It's bullshit, Jong cops it worse than any other player on our list, his weaknesses are exposed as worse than they are and I am suggesting that there is elements of racism from some posters, and then, his good games or positive features are not recognised or downplayed by the same people (or an unreasonably high benchmark, like All-Australian???? so they can slam him when he fails to become an All-Australian).

Then people like you, though whilst with the best of intentions, come in and try to claim some "well he's probably in between" are still pushing forward a fallacious argument as per my links above.

This will be my last post in this thread as I'll put a self-imposed thread ban on myself. I just want to say I'm disgusted at the so-called Bulldogs supporters who seem to get some sort of joy out of the failures of a player of the team they support. Claiming that "oh there's nothing I'd love more than him to play well" isn't a defence to that. People can say that, but then, actions are louder than words, and they're the ones choosing to completely ignore this thread when he does play well, but make pages upon pages of posts when he plays well. It's bullshit and I won't get suffocated from it through an appeal to moderation/middle ground fallacious argument, or that by saying there's an element of racism that "you can't go around saying it". Well I am, and it's true and I'm disgusted by the other Bulldogs supporters.

 

[BRWB]

Disagree. It's shameful to see people get joy out of seeing a Bulldogs player play badly, because it somehow validates their perceptions.

I believe some of the attacks on his game are racist in nature. I said it. People don't believe he can play well because he's the only player of his race in the AFL.

He plays one poor game in 11 and the posts pile up - one after another, one after another, using video, pointing out criticism, and all of a sudden claiming how one bad game outdoes 10 good ones and he's not one of the worst players on our list, etc. etc.

Where was that same video analysis or multiple pages after his multiple contested marks, or ball winning and evasion in packs? None of that. So you're trying to claim a middle ground as some sort of truth.

When the appeal to middle ground, or "argument to moderation" is a fallacy in itself, so I can't agree with the point that you're saying:

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/middle-ground
https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/tools/lp/Bo/LogicalFallacies/59/Argument-to-Moderation
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_to_moderation

It's bullshit, Jong cops it worse than any other player on our list, his weaknesses are exposed as worse than they are and I am suggesting that there is elements of racism from some posters, and then, his good games or positive features are not recognised or downplayed by the same people (or an unreasonably high benchmark, like All-Australian???? so they can slam him when he fails to become an All-Australian).

Then people like you, though whilst with the best of intentions, come in and try to claim some "well he's probably in between" are still pushing forward a fallacious argument as per my links above.

This will be my last post in this thread as I'll put a self-imposed thread ban on myself. I just want to say I'm disgusted at the so-called Bulldogs supporters who seem to get some sort of joy out of the failures of a player of the team they support. Claiming that "oh there's nothing I'd love more than him to play well" isn't a defence to that. People can say that, but then, actions are louder than words, and they're the ones choosing to completely ignore this thread when he does play well, but make pages upon pages of posts when he plays well. It's bullshit and I won't get suffocated from it through an appeal to moderation/middle ground fallacious argument, or that by saying there's an element of racism that "you can't go around saying it". Well I am, and it's true and I'm disgusted by the other Bulldogs supporters.

You seem emotional.

Jong had 11 touches in Rd 1 and played a shocker. Yet you say he hasn't played a bad game all year. Standard misrepresentation of the facts by you in this discussion.

Honestly, the main I reason I post in this thread (whether Jong has been ok or not) is not any dislike for Jong. I wish him well. No the reason is my incredulity at you and others' mind boggling and increasingly bizarre defence of, and lauding of Jong. At least you've finally come out and admitted that you feel Jong's criticism is racially motivated. Not speaking for anyone else but that is an offensive, unfounded and piss weak comment.

I expected better.

 

[Super Hans]

Done with this thread. Can't even rightfully criticise a player without being racist.

 

[Unorth]

Disagree. It's shameful to see people get joy out of seeing a Bulldogs player play badly, because it somehow validates their perceptions.

I believe some of the attacks on his game are racist in nature. I said it. People don't believe he can play well because he's the only player of his race in the AFL.

He plays one poor game in 11 and the posts pile up - one after another, one after another, using video, pointing out criticism, and all of a sudden claiming how one bad game outdoes 10 good ones and he's not one of the worst players on our list, etc. etc.

Where was that same video analysis or multiple pages after his multiple contested marks, or ball winning and evasion in packs? None of that. So you're trying to claim a middle ground as some sort of truth.

When the appeal to middle ground, or "argument to moderation" is a fallacy in itself, so I can't agree with the point that you're saying:

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/middle-ground
https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/tools/lp/Bo/LogicalFallacies/59/Argument-to-Moderation
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_to_moderation

It's bullshit, Jong cops it worse than any other player on our list, his weaknesses are exposed as worse than they are and I am suggesting that there is elements of racism from some posters, and then, his good games or positive features are not recognised or downplayed by the same people (or an unreasonably high benchmark, like All-Australian???? so they can slam him when he fails to become an All-Australian).

Then people like you, though whilst with the best of intentions, come in and try to claim some "well he's probably in between" are still pushing forward a fallacious argument as per my links above.

This will be my last post in this thread as I'll put a self-imposed thread ban on myself. I just want to say I'm disgusted at the so-called Bulldogs supporters who seem to get some sort of joy out of the failures of a player of the team they support. Claiming that "oh there's nothing I'd love more than him to play well" isn't a defence to that. People can say that, but then, actions are louder than words, and they're the ones choosing to completely ignore this thread when he does play well, but make pages upon pages of posts when he plays well. It's bullshit and I won't get suffocated from it through an appeal to moderation/middle ground fallacious argument, or that by saying there's an element of racism that "you can't go around saying it". Well I am, and it's true and I'm disgusted by the other Bulldogs supporters.

You may not see this, self imposed ban and whatnot, but I don't even think timtamWB was trying to even really comment on aspects of Jong's games in that post other than saying "he's a good depth player", which is obviously true. He's very clearly not in the tier of Bont, Macrae, Dahl, Picken, Wallis, Libba etc. He may not be playing if we were completely healthy. Maybe he would, but it's debatable as to whether or not he should. That makes him depth.

I think timtam was more trying to say that all this Jong stuff is one extreme responding to another.

It started with...one poster...that was/is extremely harsh on Jong. But then (in response to that) there have been times where others talk him up a bit too much. As you've said, expectations on a role player aren't going to be 25 touches and a goal every game. But there have been people panning him too harshly over what's expected, then as a result you get people pumping him up too much when he hasn't been more than a role player this season, then you get people commenting that others are defending Jong too much...

And all of that is true. It has been two extremes. Just because taking a middle ground approach is objectively deemed a fallacy doesn't mean that it's wrong to say the answer's in the middle. Sometimes the approach should be to admit that there have been two extremes and that taking a more grounded approach would be better. In this case, being grounded means calling Jong depth. Not a top 10 player on the team, not garbage that shouldn't be on the team, but depth. A role player. Which is what timtam said. Then you can start arguing about what should and shouldn't be expected of a depth player.

 

[darthbards]

Allow me to respond based on my thoughts.

What happened in the past, was that there were a couple of extremely vocal posters that would constantly run Jong down and never give him any credit for anything good he did, and would campaign for him to be dropped and traded/delisted. And people got very sick of this.

As a response to this, coupled with Jong's good form so far this year, a couple of extremely vocal posters did the opposite, and have said things such as Jong is in the top dozen on our list, has been close to bog in games and has played extraordinary well so far this year. And people got very sick of this.

That has lead to a backlash back the other way, with people saying Jong is no good after a vocal minority have been building up Jong as an amazing player. It's nothing to do with Jong, it is everything to do with a group of 5 or 6 posters that are on extreme ends of the spectrum when it comes to him.

The reality is somewhere in the middle. Jong is a good depth player, that has been playing a bit better than that this year. However he still has multiple flaws that I personally think will not allow him to be a regular best 22 player.

Jongs my third favourite player and if I still had a Duffle Coat I would proudly have the number 46 on the top right hand corner. Love Jongy unashamedly.
I will continue to stand by this whether he is dropped this week or not. As long as Jong remains on the Bulldog list I for one will remain loyal to my third favourite player. With Morris close to retirement I would have no problem moving his number to the top left hand corner of my fictional Duffle Coat if that were to occur.
Little Lin The Legend is still contracted for next year so I'm confident my adulation will continue for a while longer.
Poor game by the club in general this week so I certainly won't be blaming the little champ in isolation. I believe Lin was placed on our list for footballing ability alone and agree with the club on this decision and will remain supportive.

 

[SonOfScray]

Jong needed to be more aggressive at the ball and themsn last night. Was really disappointed in how timid he was in the face of some absolute marshmallows trying to (successfully) intimidate him.

 

[BEaston]

A couple of points:
Jong was pretty bad against the Swans. That's undeniable.

Not sure why people going OTT in their support of one of our own is deemed to be a bad thing? We love the club and most of us love the players. As Dogs fans especially, we love an underdog and if there were ever an underdog of a footy player it would be Lin Jong. I think people are just passionate about it because they want to see him succeed. Surely this type of encouragement of our players should be welcomed (ignored at worst?), even if it can be OTT at times?

I think there has been a general theme regarding Jong on here that his positives are given less credence than his negatives. This thread is always loudest after a bad game. Why is that? I think it says something, but I'm not sure what. Anyway, just above BRWB has said it's incredulous that anyone would defend Jong. This is an example of that skewed lens. To say that you must be totally ignoring everything good that he brings to the table (and all the good games he has played this year). Really, defending Jongs position in the team should not be the crazy, mind-boggling position that some people seem it is. He has easily been in out top 20 performers of the year (and Bev has kept on picking him, it can't be that crazy).

Regarding the racism thing, I don't really agree with it. If there has been any of that, it would have only come from one person who has form in the area. I can see why Jong could frustrate the hell out of people (he is often an "almost" player), so I don't think there's anything more sinister. I think it is a little bit of a positivity/negativity thing. I also think he is an easy target and becomes a scapegoat so a lot of the time the general frustration people are feeling towards the team can be directed towards Jong. Thursday, the whole team played horribly. Mistakes were made everywhere and frequently by everyone; but you just knew this thread would up and about.

 

[BRWB]

A couple of points:
Jong was pretty bad against the Swans. That's undeniable.

Not sure why people going OTT in their support of one of our own is deemed to be a bad thing? We love the club and most of us love the players. As Dogs fans especially, we love an underdog and if there were ever an underdog of a footy player it would be Lin Jong. I think people are just passionate about it because they want to see him succeed. Surely this type of encouragement of our players should be welcomed (ignored at worst?), even if it can be OTT at times?

I think there has been a general theme regarding Jong on here that his positives are given less credence than his negatives. This thread is always loudest after a bad game. Why is that? I think it says something, but I'm not sure what. Anyway, just above BRWB has said it's incredulous that anyone would defend Jong. This is an example of that skewed lens. To say that you must be totally ignoring everything good that he brings to the table (and all the good games he has played this year). Really, defending Jongs position in the team should not be the crazy, mind-boggling position that some people seem it is. He has easily been in out top 20 performers of the year (and Bev has kept on picking him, it can't be that crazy).

Regarding the racism thing, I don't really agree with it. If there has been any of that, it would have only come from one person who has form in the area. I can see why Jong could frustrate the hell out of people (he is often an "almost" player), so I don't think there's anything more sinister. I think it is a little bit of a positivity/negativity thing. I also think he is an easy target and becomes a scapegoat so a lot of the time the general frustration people are feeling towards the team can be directed towards Jong. Thursday, the whole team played horribly. Mistakes were made everywhere and frequently by everyone; but you just knew this thread would up and about.

M8 I don't mind people defending Jong or even praising him when warranted. I've praised him here. But you have misunderstood me or I haven't made myself clear. Just in the last few pages we've seen the following bizarre claims in attempts to defend or praise Jong:

- that Jong was key to us winning the final in Perth last year.

- that Jong would keep an in form Libba out of the team

- that there is some sort of racist conspiracy against Jong

- that people criticising Jong derive pleasure from his failure and wish him ill, and are disloyal fans

- that Jong hasn't played a bad game all year till Thursday

- that this thread is up and about because Jong was poor, when in fact the thread has been 'front page news' all year.

- that Jong is in the top dozen players at the club

- that Jong is a chance to finish high in the B and F (even though other Jong fans argue the B and F means little in asessing players.)

That is just a few. I've also seen it argued that Jong is a mid whose role is not to get the ball because he has poor disposal. That Jong is a good forward even though he hasn't kicked a goal this year, etc

Come on.

 

[perro_loco]

Jong fumbles enough in dry conditions, with a wet ball that was asking for trouble.

Libba was a better option

That was such a poor game on last year's game that every player should be dropped. Now I hope they bounce back, including Jong!

 

[perro_loco]

Disagree. It's shameful to see people get joy out of seeing a Bulldogs player play badly, because it somehow validates their perceptions.

I believe some of the attacks on his game are racist in nature. I said it. People don't believe he can play well because he's the only player of his race in the AFL.

He plays one poor game in 11 and the posts pile up - one after another, one after another, using video, pointing out criticism, and all of a sudden claiming how one bad game outdoes 10 good ones and he's not one of the worst players on our list, etc. etc.

Where was that same video analysis or multiple pages after his multiple contested marks, or ball winning and evasion in packs? None of that. So you're trying to claim a middle ground as some sort of truth.

When the appeal to middle ground, or "argument to moderation" is a fallacy in itself, so I can't agree with the point that you're saying:

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/middle-ground
https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/tools/lp/Bo/LogicalFallacies/59/Argument-to-Moderation
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_to_moderation

It's bullshit, Jong cops it worse than any other player on our list, his weaknesses are exposed as worse than they are and I am suggesting that there is elements of racism from some posters, and then, his good games or positive features are not recognised or downplayed by the same people (or an unreasonably high benchmark, like All-Australian???? so they can slam him when he fails to become an All-Australian).

Then people like you, though whilst with the best of intentions, come in and try to claim some "well he's probably in between" are still pushing forward a fallacious argument as per my links above.

This will be my last post in this thread as I'll put a self-imposed thread ban on myself. I just want to say I'm disgusted at the so-called Bulldogs supporters who seem to get some sort of joy out of the failures of a player of the team they support. Claiming that "oh there's nothing I'd love more than him to play well" isn't a defence to that. People can say that, but then, actions are louder than words, and they're the ones choosing to completely ignore this thread when he does play well, but make pages upon pages of posts when he plays well. It's bullshit and I won't get suffocated from it through an appeal to moderation/middle ground fallacious argument, or that by saying there's an element of racism that "you can't go around saying it". Well I am, and it's true and I'm disgusted by the other Bulldogs supporters.

great response. nothing like the scientific approach!!! the evidence shows that Jong has been improving consistently. hence the reason he gets picked on a weekly basis and most likely will against Melbourne. Go Dogs!

 

[Del165892]

Jongs my third favourite player and if I still had a Duffle Coat I would proudly have the number 46 on the top right hand corner. Love Jongy unashamedly.
I will continue to stand by this whether he is dropped this week or not. As long as Jong remains on the Bulldog list I for one will remain loyal to my third favourite player. With Morris close to retirement I would have no problem moving his number to the top left hand corner of my fictional Duffle Coat if that were to occur.
Little Lin The Legend is still contracted for next year so I'm confident my adulation will continue for a while longer.
Poor game by the club in general this week so I certainly won't be blaming the little champ in isolation. I believe Lin was placed on our list for footballing ability alone and agree with the club on this decision and will remain supportive.

Dude...I love Lin too but this is taking the piss a bit.

 

[darthbards]

Dude...I love Lin too but this is taking the piss a bit.

Dude...we all have our own favourite players for a whole manner of reasons,you of all people should understand that.

 

[MKS70]

If Jong over runs the ball like he did last Thursday night, he should be off to the VFL for a practise of skills.

 

[Next Waiting]

May your rehab and recovery be speedy and full. See you next year.

 

[Libba39]

May your rehab and recovery be speedy and full. See you next year.

What is the early call?

 

[Wetdog]

 

[VitalDread]

What is the early call?

Acl

 

[ossie_21]

Bev confirmed suspected ACL in the post match media conference. Poor bloke

 

[Johnny_Dogg4]

So unfair. Poor guy
Hope he returns better

 

[boydsno1]

Man Jong just unlucky again. ACL is another cruel injury he has to go through.

 

[Substance]

Criticize his play all you want, but he chose to stay on in 2017 and has played his heart out for the club every week. ACL is just something he doesn't deserve. Shit news! all the best Jongy hope you recover well for next year.

 

[darthbards]

Criticize his play all you want, but he chose to stay on in 2017 and has played his heart out for the club every week. ACL is just something he doesn't deserve. Shit news! all the best Jongy hope you recover well for next year.

On a positive,I think the clubs seen enough and they'll back Jongy and he should at least get another year when his current contract expires.
We'll be seeing him again.

 

[Snarls Barkley]

Shame for Jong, another setback for him. He's a fighter though and he'll be back better than ever.