The Law Lindt Cafe Siege - Inquest Findings

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They died because some maniac walked into the Lindt Cafe and held them hostage. Anything after that wouldn't have happened if not for that one act.
That's a factor which no one is questioning....It's everything that occurred thereafter, on behalf of the authorities, that contributed to the deaths of 2 innocent civilians.
 

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scoman

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Why the cops should have to worry about the legalities of killing a nut job who has taken hostages in this manner is ridiculous. Sniper should have been given the green light. You do something like he did you lose any rights you might have as a citizen.

As for those infering the police snipers are nutjobs itching to kill someone.... Just back away from the keyboard and go have a cup of tea. Seriously, our security agencies have to deal with stuff the likes of which we can only imagine. They should get nothing but respect.
 

GTOA

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That's a factor which no one is questioning....It's everything that occurred thereafter, on behalf of the authorities, that contributed to the deaths of 2 innocent civilians.

But it was what Manis did, that contributed to everything else afterward. Without his presence that day, the police would not be needed, and no-one would have died.

Besides, Tory Johnson was killed by Mo Manis, with a bullet to the head, so he is directly responsible for at least one death.

Also, if police integrity, the media, and the public sided with the police, and took their side over the perpetrator, maybe police wouldn't have to second-guess themselves all the time. But then, what else can you expect from a country where a cop killer like Ned Kelly is held up as a hero.
 
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But it was what Manis did, that contributed to everything else afterward. Without his presence that day, the police would not be needed, and no-one would have died.

Besides, Tory Johnson was killed by Mo Manis, with a bullet to the head, so he is directly responsible for at least one death.

Also, if police integrity, the media, and the public sided with the police, and took their side over the perpetrator, maybe police wouldn't have to second-guess themselves all the time. But then, what else can you expect from a country where a cop killer like Ned Kelly is held up as a hero.
The point of the debate is:....That had police acted decisively & earlier then both victims would still be alive today.

That is as bleeding obvious as it gets.

All else is poppy-cock.
 

GTOA

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The point of the debate is:....That had police acted decisively & earlier then both victims would still be alive today.

That is as bleeding obvious as it gets.

All else is poppy-cock.

Because no-one is willing to debate if Mo Manis is responsible because everyone is afraid of Muslims, and so won't comment on him, lest him blow them up.
 

Illinois Nazi

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The point of the debate is:....That had police acted decisively & earlier then both victims would still be alive today.
"Would be"? No
"Might be"? Yes

And possibly other people who were involved would be dead instead. We can never know.

The only thing certain is that if police had acted earlier, someone on this board would be criticising them and saying "they should have waited and nobody would have died".
 

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NSW police have admitted they should have acted earlier.

NSW Police Commissioner Mick Fuller has conceded armed officers at the 2014 Sydney siege should have been sent in earlier to rescue the hostages and not waited until Tori Johnson was shot and killed.

The stunning concession came after an 18-month inquest into the siege.

Coroner Michael Barnes has announced the findings from the long inquest, saying police waited too long to go into the cafe after the first shot was fired at 2:03am.

The architect of the deadly Lindt Cafe siege had a long and documented history of dangerous behaviour. "We certainly should have gone in earlier," Commissioner Fuller told Four Corners.

"We need to have gone in at a time when there was some sense of control, rather than us going in having no idea where he possibly was, no idea where the other hostages were — it would've been one of the most dangerous times to go in."
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-05-...red-sydney-siege-earlier-says-top-cop/8550930

Also during the inquest the (anonymous) forward commander gave evidence that he believed decisive action should not be taken because Monis, who was holding 18 people at gunpoint, had the same rights as the hostages.

There is something severely wrong with our policing when the leaders have such beliefs.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-07-...parents-calls-commander-disgrace-game/7641940
 

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GTOA

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Everybody knows muslim misfit and shot to pieces not missed on departure Monis is responsible, the inquest is just the full examination of events with a report that will help us manage it better next time.

Was Mo Manis' name mentioned in the inquiry, or did the media just not report it?

Here's a way to prevent it happening next time. Stop allowing radical Muslims to come into this country. That's a start.
 

GTOA

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NSW police have admitted they should have acted earlier.

NSW Police Commissioner Mick Fuller has conceded armed officers at the 2014 Sydney siege should have been sent in earlier to rescue the hostages and not waited until Tori Johnson was shot and killed.

The stunning concession came after an 18-month inquest into the siege.

Coroner Michael Barnes has announced the findings from the long inquest, saying police waited too long to go into the cafe after the first shot was fired at 2:03am.

The architect of the deadly Lindt Cafe siege had a long and documented history of dangerous behaviour. "We certainly should have gone in earlier," Commissioner Fuller told Four Corners.

"We need to have gone in at a time when there was some sense of control, rather than us going in having no idea where he possibly was, no idea where the other hostages were — it would've been one of the most dangerous times to go in."
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-05-...red-sydney-siege-earlier-says-top-cop/8550930

Also during the inquest the (anonymous) forward commander gave evidence that he believed decisive action should not be taken because Monis, who was holding 18 people at gunpoint, had the same rights as the hostages.

There is something severely wrong with our policing when the leaders have such beliefs.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-07-...parents-calls-commander-disgrace-game/7641940

If I was a cop, I would be following Michael Barnes' car home afterwards, checking for busted tail lights, roadworthiness, etc.

Just doing my duty.
 

shellyg

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Was Mo Manis' name mentioned in the inquiry, or did the media just not report it?

Here's a way to prevent it happening next time. Stop allowing radical Muslims to come into this country. That's a start.
Was Mo Manis' name mentioned in the inquiry, or did the media just not report it?

Here's a way to prevent it happening next time. Stop allowing radical Muslims to come into this country. That's a start.
That we've even got this far when parties are asking for a moratorium on Muslim immigration is a huge fail of Government and security agencies.

I realise you've quite rightly asserted radical Muslims should be banned from coming into the country but that fails to address radicalisation of Australian born citizens. That's another problem.
 

iluvparis

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Because no-one is willing to debate if Mo Manis is responsible because everyone is afraid of Muslims, and so won't comment on him, lest him blow them up.
FFS - obviously you didn't watch or read the coroners findings.

The VERY FIRST thing the coroner said was that the responsibility for the deaths was at the hands of Monis and Monis alone.
 

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Apologies for the bump


Time for a PROPER inquest into this from top to bottom.
That means from abbott down
Interesting. I read somewhere that they did some tests and found that sniper shots fired through the cafe windows would not have reliably taken out the perp. Hard to know what to believe when it gets political. There has been a lot of arse covering going on for sure.
 

NSWCROW

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Interesting. I read somewhere that they did some tests and found that sniper shots fired through the cafe windows would not have reliably taken out the perp. Hard to know what to believe when it gets political. There has been a lot of arse covering going on for sure.
Yeah i was always under the same belief regarding the windows.
Still , i reckon this bloke would have a better idea than most.

And yes , there's so much that hasn't been investigated imo
Most notably , how this mutt was allowed free reign well before this day


Off the top of my head the ONLY person i can think of who lost their job over this entire debacle was fmr NSW Labor leader John Robertson ( who wrote monis a letter of support years previously )
 

shellyg

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Interesting. I read somewhere that they did some tests and found that sniper shots fired through the cafe windows would not have reliably taken out the perp. Hard to know what to believe when it gets political. There has been a lot of arse covering going on for sure.
I don't think anybody could reliably predict a certain outcome in those circumstances but it appears the chief sniper et al aren't suggesting that. The crux of the matter appears to be that they were hindered in doing their jobs, couldn't do what they were trained to do.

And on a personal level for each of them, there probably isn't a day goes by 'what ifs' aren't playing on their minds.
 

Trucker Tiger

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I don't think anybody could reliably predict a certain outcome in those circumstances but it appears the chief sniper et al aren't suggesting that. The crux of the matter appears to be that they were hindered in doing their jobs, couldn't do what they were trained to do.

And on a personal level for each of them, there probably isn't a day goes by 'what ifs' aren't playing on their minds.
They are trained to take orders from their superiors. This is pathetic by the sniper.
 

Lebbo73

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Interesting. I read somewhere that they did some tests and found that sniper shots fired through the cafe windows would not have reliably taken out the perp. Hard to know what to believe when it gets political. There has been a lot of arse covering going on for sure.
The mistake they made was treating Monis like we’ve always done in domestic hostage situations. They tried to wait it out and let him give himself up or fall asleep. Good idea for domestics. Not such a great idea when dealing with a terrorist. Especially when he had multiple hostages.
 
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