Opinion Lions list analysis, Strengths, weaknesses, targets for 2017

[winged1]

Before injuries Merrett was our quickest over 20m and at the same time he was probably our heaviest. Frost may be a bit more agile but Merrett was definitely an amazing athlete in his time.

And that explosive speed is what you need as a KPD, because you are not initiating, only reacting, which is why some forwards who people keep throwing up as KPD alternatives wont work.

 

[Kevvo]

I think Frost will be a very similar defender to Merrett. He seems a brilliant athlete with height, strength and good acceleration but similar to Merrett he doesn't seem the smartest defender and he's quite a poor user of the footy. He would seem to be a safe option for the next few years but you wouldn't be surprised if he was overtaken at some point.

You're probably right, though I think his ball use is a little better than people give him credit for. I agree with the sense that he's not going to create offence, but my impression is that he's a steady enough kick out of defense if he has an option or two presenting.

 

[WhiteLionFeva]

You're probably right, though I think his ball use is a little better than people give him credit for. I agree with the sense that he's not going to create offence, but my impression is that he's a steady enough kick out of defense if he has an option or two presenting.

Yep, and finding space as the kick out option has never been our strong suit.

 

[Kevvo]

Yep, and finding space as the kick out option has never been our strong suit.

Yeah, fair point.

All I'm saying is don't blame Frost for his turnovers .

 

[Dalions]

And that explosive speed is what you need as a KPD, because you are not initiating, only reacting, which is why some forwards who people keep throwing up as KPD alternatives wont work.

Like Michael Close.
I agree.
And I'll say it for you.

 

[BuntonRules]

IMO Jack Frost will play a lot of football for us. He is just learning his job & will be a mainstay of our defence for a long time. Great pickup.

 

[Sherrinator]

Quickest over 20m, Wow he was fast then.
from memory he did have good closing speed for those bone crunching spoils.

One of the few joys of being a Brisbane fan the last 10 years.

 

[lionshine]

Not really sure where to post this so thought I'd put it in here. I can't help but think our midfield has underperformed over the last few years. Injuries have definitely played their part and it hasn't been ideal that our best player Dayne Beams has missed the most footy out of all of them but we do have quality talent in their prime playing in our midfield.

If we get 18+ games out of the following players surely we don't finish last like many are predicting-

Stef Martin, Dayne Beams, Tom Rockliff, Dayne Zorko, Daniel Rich, Mitch Robinson, Allen Christensen and Ryan Bastinac.

On top of that we have two exciting young midfield talents in Rhys Mathieson and Hugh McCluggage.

I feel like if the above group can all remain fit and healthy, gel as a group and play some of their better footy we could actually push for 7-9 wins. Perhaps that is a big if though.

 

[lionshine]

Just to expand on that and can I just preface this by saying that the chances of this are rather slim for multiple reasons, however, if Martin, DBeams, Rockliff and Zorko were all to have career best seasons in 2017 we'd have 4 AA standard players in our team. Those four playing at their best on a consistent basis would surely generate 5+ wins alone?

 

[POBT]

Whether it is due to being underperforming, overrated or over-injured, the reality is that we've been waiting for our midfield to click for too long now. I've stopped saying "if we can just...." because, at least to date, we never do.

What I will say is that, leaving aside Beams, Zorko and Rockliff, the rest of our midfield group are either chronically inconsistent, simply honest and enthusiastic toilers, too young or just not that good based on exposed form. When you think about how young we are everywhere else on the ground, our midfield simply isn't strong enough or deep enough to compensate.

Would love to see them all fit and playing to potential but, until we see that, it remains closer to a theoretical possibility than a likely outcome IMO.

 

[Dalions]

They seem to be able to play ok individually but not really as a team. That is hopefully where the team can improve this year. Bring others into play who are in a better position rather than ignoring them all together to enhance their own stats.

 

[lionshine]

Whether it is due to being underperforming, overrated or over-injured, the reality is that we've been waiting for our midfield to click for too long now. I've stopped saying "if we can just...." because, at least to date, we never do.

What I will say is that, leaving aside Beams, Zorko and Rockliff, the rest of our midfield group are either chronically inconsistent, simply honest and enthusiastic toilers, too young or just not that good based on exposed form. When you think about how young we are everywhere else on the ground, our midfield simply isn't strong enough or deep enough to compensate.

Would love to see them all fit and playing to potential but, until we see that, it remains closer to a theoretical possibility than a likely outcome IMO.

Yep agree with that last bit 100%. I do, however, feel like if DBeams, Rockliff and Zorko remain injury free and play at or close to their best that will have a positive impact on the likes of Rich and Bastinac who in the abscence of 1 or more of the above three have to shoulder more of the load and receive more attention from the opposition. Will be interesting to see how 2017 unfolds. Hopefully the injuries stay away and the boys get a good run at it.

 

[a mayes ing]

Almost as if they have lost so many times now that they have forgotten how to win. Forgotten how hard you have to work both offensively and defensively that when they think they are doing 100% of their ability, they are actually only doing 90% of what the other teams are doing. And that extra 10% is what wins you games

 

[xplo]

Just to expand on that and can I just preface this by saying that the chances of this are rather slim for multiple reasons, however, if Martin, DBeams, Rockliff and Zorko were all to have career best seasons in 2017 we'd have 4 AA standard players in our team. Those four playing at their best on a consistent basis would surely generate 5+ wins alone?

We've lacked a player that can make the others better. Aka was about Aka, but Voss was able to make 19 yo Simon Black and Browny better players. Shaun Hart and the Scott's did there same. They had your back.

I'd argue the good players we have now mostly don't make others walk taller. Steph and Rich are pretty introverted types on the field. Rocky himself has said his 'honesty' tends to only run in one direction. Beams is a bit hard to judge because he's been out so much.

Mitch and Zorko are probably the exceptions but their efforts to lift a kid up can get chopped down by others.

 

[Kevvo]

We've lacked a player that can make the others better. Aka was about Aka, but Voss was able to make 19 yo Simon Black and Browny better players. Shaun Hart and the Scott's did there same. They had your back.

I'd argue the good players we have now mostly don't make others walk taller. Steph and Rich are pretty introverted types on the field. Rocky himself has said his 'honesty' tends to only run in one direction. Beams is a bit hard to judge because he's been out so much.

Mitch and Zorko are probably the exceptions but their efforts to lift a kid up can get chopped down by others.

Yeah, I think this is spot on.

Rich has had patches where he's more active in this respect, but over long and unsuccessful seasons our players seem to regress to what comes naturally. We really need a good start one of these years to reinforce some positive behaviors.

 

[John_Proctor]

great post xplo... and a minor expansion its not just about making others better but being complimentary. Voss is a different class but he was someone who you would rely on to make a game saving tackle as much as a game winning possession.

Hart and the Scott's (and Lappin) were all defensively minded players who played two way footy allowing Aka to be Aka or even to an extent Black and Power to be more focused on getting the ball than stopping the opposition getting it.

Who in our team are the complimentary players doing those defensive jobs? Zorko, Beams, Christensen, Rich, (Hanley), Taylor, Bewick are all forward running players. Bastinac is an honest player but not great and Robinson is an tagger/wrecking ball, Mathieson might develop into that sort of player. Rockliff tackles a lot but isn't overly defensive.

We've consistently lost contested ball the last few years and then lacked the outside defensive nous to stop the opposition just running away with the ball once they'd got it. The last bit (defensive nous) is hopefully something Fagan is bringing to the table. The first bit (hands on the ball) is hopefully helped by having Beams and Rockliff play more games together this season than has happened the last 2 combined.

 

[Football Pope]

We've lacked a player that can make the others better. Aka was about Aka, but Voss was able to make 19 yo Simon Black and Browny better players. Shaun Hart and the Scott's did there same. They had your back.

I'd argue the good players we have now mostly don't make others walk taller. Steph and Rich are pretty introverted types on the field. Rocky himself has said his 'honesty' tends to only run in one direction. Beams is a bit hard to judge because he's been out so much.

Mitch and Zorko are probably the exceptions but their efforts to lift a kid up can get chopped down by others.

It will be interesting to observe what our younger brigade bring and whether our recruiting department sees that as an area to address.

 

[matwt73]

I know it has been mentioned before by others but I just wanted to give a big thumbs up to this thread and its contributors.

Well done mikey127 for coming up with the idea of the thread, and also for sticking with it and moving it forward one player and one day at a time. I think that structure was crucial to the thread working because it meant that the thread was regularly and consistently being brought back on point and it avoided derailments.

Also the structure of the thread allowed people to contribute where they thought they had something to offer, on a particular player, without feeling overwhelmed or humbled by those who may have had a better grasp of our list over all.

That being said it is worth also noting the top quality and considered analysis of POBT which was consistently good, and I also thought that many others offered some interesting insights jjami15 and SizeMatters being a couple that often stuck out. Well done all.

Together with the reports coming from training and practice matches in the preseason thread (thanks jason pm and Leemas ) this has been a great offseason for the board.

 

[Leemas]

Yeah I reckon this thread has been one of the best in a long time. Really kept me entertained this off-season. Great idea mikey can't wait for next years

 

[Dylan12]

I am really looking forward to see what we do with our forward line when Schache is right.

At this stage I'd hazard to guess that we will revert back to a three talls set up that worked so well in the early 2000's with Lynch, Brown and Bradshaw, this time with Schache and Close and Hipwood (albeit Hipwood playing the more mobile Bradshaw type role despite being a lot taller).

What is the consensus on what we'll do with our talls?

It's also nice knowing we have good back up in Walker, Freeman and McStay who can all also play tall if required, although not every combination of three talls could necessarily line up together in the same side IMO.

 

[Haso]

I would be tempted to say that Closey might actually be pulled, except then we wouldn't have a second ruck.

Dare I say, give Schache a run in the ruck for 5 mins?

 

[winged1]

I would be tempted to say that Closey might actually be pulled, except then we wouldn't have a second ruck.

Dare I say, give Schache a run in the ruck for 5 mins?

You don't plow a field with a Ferrari, so schache don't ruck. Close is getting a couple of goals a game. Lynch, the supposedly most valuable forward in the game averages 1.5 goals a game over 100 games. Close is going fine.

 

[acuguy]

Yeah I am loathe to drop Close at this stage.

 

[jackess]

In the early 2000s they only had a few rotations a game if that as well.

 

[Nunez]

The more I think about it, the moreI think Close may make way for Schache IF Fagan is confident the ruck is covered.