Preview Lions v Eagles Sunday 23rd March at 12.10pm AEST (Perth time 10.10am)

[martinson]

Shouldn’t Clug be more than just consistently good?

He seems to have to do too much grunt work for a guy who has the capacity to cut teams up from the outside.

If Levi can maintain his form that should help McCluggage.

He's consistently a good player who could add icing on the cake as well if we can free him up more.

I would've thought he'd be AA by now and he's just about there but he doesn't have many games where he's clearly in the votes.

 

[Dalions]

Shouldn’t Clug be more than just consistently good?

I think you are underestimating consistently good?
Would take that, over most other variables.

 

[notliondown]

When I was listening to the roar deal I was thinking how little McCluggage stood out last year and similarly Berry.

Do they have another level of consistent footy? Are we using them to fulfill their potential? Do they need a change of roles?

Berry you probably lock into the wing and hopefully he becomes one of the top wingers. Unless we have injuries to on ballers.

McCluggage we need to find a way to get him more unpressured footy

Same with Rayner. Still doesn't seem to know how to accumulate. When he goes missing he completely disappears. But maybe this is ok because he'll drag a decent defender with him

Bez I see as a workhorse - he's the one that links up and runs a million miles to make others look good by being the spare - in other words a winger. And I don't think wingers generally get the credit they deserve because of lot of their work is essentially backing everyone else up. I would hazard a guess but that he and dunks are the 2 hardest working players on the field in terms of physical output.

Hugh is another story but... I'm not sure we do get the best out of him but I think he will always be stuck in an endless positional rotation now so maybe he will only ever shine in patches? Maybe he's the ultimate team player?

Cam... well I promised myself this year I would be easier on him. But man the complete capitulation after a quarter of sheer brilliance is the most frustrating thing I have ever seen from a footballer. I can't remember anyone else being so extreme, and it's been happening for so long now it will never change. Fages must pull his hair out over him.

 

[Nathan Barley]

I think you are underestimating consistently good?
Would take that, over most other variables.

I’d say he’s got the potential to be elite and use his strengths more.

Is he going to finish his career without a B&F or an all Australian jacket?

 

[Nunez]

Couldn't give a **** on individual stat lines. This is a champion team, not team of champions.

 

[KissKiss]

Isn't Bez our main tagger, with Dunks, that stops quality opposition mids, i.e. Naicos?

I think we have a good ability to flick between depending on the opposition. Both are big guys but I see more Dunkley soft tagging on the bigger guys like Cripps. While Berry is a better fit for the better runners like Daicos who Dunks might struggle to keep up with the whole game

 

[twhowler]

So it looks like 2/3 of Dev, Bruce and McLachlan will play. Interesting. Good week for some fresh / younger players in that heat and ahead of Geelong.

Charlie from precautionary to missing another week. Calf not good for his speed / age.

I must say though the more i think about it the more i want Bailey playing mainly forward this year. Cameron and Lohman are very much traditional small forwards. Bailey gets his goals either bursting through the arc or from stoppage. It's a great point of difference. Would be very keen to get back at least one of Lohman or Cameron next week. No Starce will hurt won't it - lots of smalls at the cats can hurt.

Hoping we get off to a flyer and don't have to go too hard in the sapping heat given shorter break v Cats next week. Obviously the players can't be thinking that! This would be as big an upset of us knocking off west coast in perth all those years ago...

 

[twhowler]

I think we have a good ability to flick between depending on the opposition. Both are big guys but I see more Dunkley soft tagging on the bigger guys like Cripps. While Berry is a better fit for the better runners like Daicos who Dunks might struggle to keep up with the whole game

Yep. Was it Bez who got knocked out before Daicos carved us up at the mcg last year?

Agree with Cam it is frustrating to see him everywhere then nowhere. Just seems like he struggles at time to figure out where the ball is going to go, if that's not too simple!

Clugga i thought was about to explode in i think it was 2021, just took a huge step forward. AA squad 19-22. So i guess it's fair to say he plateaued after that and maybe went backwards just a bit, even though he entered his absolute prime theoretically in 2023. On the flip side he hasn't really dropped off in terms of possessions. And he was one of our few good players in the 2023 granny. And his goalkicking is better ever since! I thought he was absolute quality at the end of the swans game, as others got a bit panicky he had that typical Hugh calmness. Would be good to see him take the comp by storm a bit but if he remains a very good player in arguably the best midfield in the comp i'll take that.

 

[briztoon]

Yep. Was it Bez who got knocked out before Daicos carved us up at the mcg last year?

Agree with Cam it is frustrating to see him everywhere then nowhere. Just seems like he struggles at time to figure out where the ball is going to go, if that's not too simple!

Clugga i thought was about to explode in i think it was 2021, just took a huge step forward. AA squad 19-22. So i guess it's fair to say he plateaued after that and maybe went backwards just a bit, even though he entered his absolute prime theoretically in 2023. On the flip side he hasn't really dropped off in terms of possessions. And he was one of our few good players in the 2023 granny. And his goalkicking is better ever since! I thought he was absolute quality at the end of the swans game, as others got a bit panicky he had that typical Hugh calmness. Would be good to see him take the comp by storm a bit but if he remains a very good player in arguably the best midfield in the comp i'll take that.

McCluggage was AA squad when playing wing. He “plateaued” when he moved inside.

I don’t know if any teams play through their wings, but McCluggage is at his best in space or outside.

Other position would be attacking half back after Zorko retires.

 

[3KZ is Football]

Shouldn’t Clug be more than just consistently good?

Fourth in the Best and Fairest last year in a Premiership winning team. That feels like a 'great' season to me. If McCluggage played for a Victorian club, even a rubbish one like Essendon he would be getting glazed every week.

 

[Tom14]

McCluggage was AA squad when playing wing. He “plateaued” when he moved inside.

I don’t know if any teams play through their wings, but McCluggage is at his best in space or outside.

Other position would be attacking half back after Zorko retires.

I know you put 'plateaued' in quote marks - but he 'plateaued' in terms of AA squad because there are many better inside mids than there are 'genuine' wingers.

The 'genuine wingers' for AA thing is stupid imo, they are generally less good players and if there was a fake team, you would just play more talented mids on the wings if you could pick anyone.

Was a nice convenient story for us to talk up 'genuine wings' when Clug and Robbo had good seasons in 2019, but fundamentally wings matter less than inside mids.

4 of clugs best 5 seasons by AFL player ratings have been from 2021 on, i.e. when he moved inside. When you have Lachie (and now Will and Dunks) he's not going to get the opportunities to rack up touches as he's often the first receiver or the preferred mid to get the ball in space.

Clug's single best patch of form was in 2021 when Lachie had an ankle injury - he led the coaches votes mid-season.

Inside/outside mid and not on the wing is his best position and where he adds the most value to the team - his goalkicking accuracy improving is a nice bonus too.

IMO its good that we have Bez doing the dirty work as the defensive winger to free clug up to damage in transition and breaking free from stoppage.

 

[Tom14]

Shouldn’t Clug be more than just consistently good?

Why? He adds a heap of value to us being one of the best kicks, suiting our style perfectly. There's only so many disposals to go around when you are a kicking team, I don't care that he doesn't get 30+ by flinging the ball around by hand.

 

[Nunez]

Why? He adds a heap of value to us being one of the best kicks, suiting our style perfectly. There's only so many disposals to go around when you are a kicking team, I don't care that he doesn't get 30+ by flinging the ball around by hand.

More than consistently good is a a funny request. If you had 22 guys who were consistently good on the field, you'd probably have yourself a dynasty team.

 

[Tom14]

More than consistently good is a a funny request. If you had 22 guys who were consistently good on the field, you'd probably have yourself a dynasty team.

If we hadn't had the father son rortz it might be a bit more of an issue with Lachie getting older.

But we know enough about Will to be pretty confident he can be more than consistently good - so Clug can stay being consistently good happily!

 

[twhowler]

Why? He adds a heap of value to us being one of the best kicks, suiting our style perfectly. There's only so many disposals to go around when you are a kicking team, I don't care that he doesn't get 30+ by flinging the ball around by hand.

Yeah i think he just doesn't need that much of it to be damaging. Takes an extra beat to allow a forward to lead. And he weights the ball better than any of our other players.

Deceptive pace too i think, doesn't really get caught from behind. He has an innate ability in traffic too. I'll never forget him weaving between two dockers and them knocking in to each other.

I thought in 2021 he could win a brownlow and be our best player. I don't think he'll be either of those things but he is great complement to our team and a very good player

 

[Tom14]

More than consistently good is a a funny request. If you had 22 guys who were consistently good on the field, you'd probably have yourself a dynasty team.

If we win another flag with this group we would have missed out on a dynasty by a single kick pretty much. I think we are helped by the comp being quite even at the moment, but you can't really complain with Clug's career output unless you are comparing him with Bont, Daicos, etc.

 

[briztoon]

I know you put 'plateaued' in quote marks - but he 'plateaued' in terms of AA squad because there are many better inside mids than there are 'genuine' wingers.

The 'genuine wingers' for AA thing is stupid imo, they are generally less good players and if there was a fake team, you would just play more talented mids on the wings if you could pick anyone.

Was a nice convenient story for us to talk up 'genuine wings' when Clug and Robbo had good seasons in 2019, but fundamentally wings matter less than inside mids.

4 of clugs best 5 seasons by AFL player ratings have been from 2021 on, i.e. when he moved inside. When you have Lachie (and now Will and Dunks) he's not going to get the opportunities to rack up touches as he's often the first receiver or the preferred mid to get the ball in space.

Clug's single best patch of form was in 2021 when Lachie had an ankle injury - he led the coaches votes mid-season.

Inside/outside mid and not on the wing is his best position and where he adds the most value to the team - his goalkicking accuracy improving is a nice bonus too.

IMO its good that we have Bez doing the dirty work as the defensive winger to free clug up to damage in transition and breaking free from stoppage.

I put “plateaued” in quotation marks, because that was the term used by the poster I quoted.

Don’t at me with that “wrong” sh!t when I’m replying to someone else.

Have a nice day.

 

[Tom14]

Yeah i think he just doesn't need that much of it to be damaging. Takes an extra beat to allow a forward to lead. And he weights the ball better than any of our other players.

Deceptive pace too i think, doesn't really get caught from behind. He has an innate ability in traffic too. I'll never forget him weaving between two dockers and them knocking in to each other.

I thought in 2021 he could win a brownlow and be our best player. I don't think he'll be either of those things but he is great complement to our team and a very good player

There's a sliding doors moment where Lachie leaves post 2021 and Hugh has to carry us - I'm very glad Lachie stayed obviously, but think if Hugh had more opportunity he could do more. But only so much to go round at this point.

 

[Tom14]

I put “plateaued” in quotation marks, because that was the term used by the poster I quoted.

Don’t at me with that “wrong” sh!t when I’m replying to someone else.

Have a nice day.

That's a serious Brizpick off the top rope! I agree with you then, but it is fun to use the gif.

 

[KissKiss]

Maybe the plateau is more regards when on the wing he was widely acclaimed as one of the best wingers in the competition. But playing more on-ball he is probably more likely in the 10-20th position for best players of a similar role (which is still massively important)

So while he is playing a more important role and probably playing better than he was, he is less visibly one of the "best" players in the comp

 

[Nunez]

That's a serious Brizpick off the top rope! I agree with you then, but it is fun to use the gif.

Briztoon to Tom be like:

 

[twhowler]

There's a sliding doors moment where Lachie leaves post 2021 and Hugh has to carry us - I'm very glad Lachie stayed obviously, but think if Hugh had more opportunity he could do more. But only so much to go round at this point.

Yeah great call. He definitely seemed to thrive without Neale.

And please aim all Plateau bullets at me people, i uttered the seemingly taboo word!

 

[Nathan Barley]

Why? He adds a heap of value to us being one of the best kicks, suiting our style perfectly. There's only so many disposals to go around when you are a kicking team, I don't care that he doesn't get 30+ by flinging the ball around by hand.

Agreed. I don't want him getting more possessions, I want him getting more when he can do damage

I don't think I ever said I wanted him to get more disposals.

I don't think he is suiting our current style because we still rely on forwards winning contests more than the midfield setting them up. Which is where Clug could take us to the next level instead of relying on Joe and Charlie and the forwards to win enough contests to get us to a big total

We might also not be able to rely on winning a large quantity of clearances and need to focus on the quality and that final disposal to clear the area

 

[martinson]

I think the issue raised was intended as could we get more out of him and he out of himself as that would be beneficial to the team seeing he's potentially a more devastating player than he currently is.

 

[Perrip]

Feel like the club would've announced a Shagga debut by now if they were going to debut him. Hopefully I'm wrong.