Unsolved - Lisa Jane Brown - Murder - 1998 - Perth WA | BigFooty
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Unsolved Lisa Jane Brown - Murder - 1998 - Perth WA

Discussion in 'Crime' started by Dan Baker, Oct 15, 2017.

  1. Dan Baker

    Dan Baker Club Legend

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  2. Dan Baker

    Dan Baker Club Legend

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    Lisa Brown went missing in 1998. She was a prostitute working the streets in Northbridge when she disappeared.
    Chris Page, the Detective Senior Constable who investigated her disappearance as part of a cold case review, said the 19-year-old was extremely vulnerable at the time.
    "Lisa had become estranged from her family. She had a couple of children that she didn't have custody of and she'd developed a heroin habit," he said.
    http://www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/c...-of-missing-and-murdered-20161231-gtk9el.html
     
  3. Dan Baker

    Dan Baker Club Legend

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    While only a few are habitual drug users, heroin mostly, and other illicit drugs surround the cases of missing and murdered WA girls now.

    Even Pam Lawrence was centralised to heroin dealers and dealing. Not sure if Simon Rochford was a heroin addict or speed user? Michelle, Andrew Mallards flat mate suggested to police it was Mallard that committed Pams murder. Michelle was obviously a regular cannabis user but sure if she was using

    Kerry Turners brother injected 6 years earlier, killing him, the murderer convicted. Sarah McMahon was struggling with drug use.
    This is reported online.

    I don't think Claremont girls were users, although that doesn't discount the vast population that experiment or that the rare happening they be drug spiked which would take another individual that synthesises as alcohol in the body making it hard to detect.

    Although it appears there were 'multiple' operators in Claremont at the time at different stages of attempted sexual assault.

    There were two murders evidently close to Richard Court, Premier around the time potentially making it a political crime. Politically motivated crimes are classed as terrorism.

    Victim Kerry Turner and Vanessa Devlin have witnesses seeing the same car.
    While reported car is slightly different model and colour, blue versus green, 240c vs 260c it sounds like a late night description.
    https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/missing-australia-women-and-serial-killers.1048334/page-4

     
  4. Dan Baker

    Dan Baker Club Legend

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  5. SmartAlec

    SmartAlec Team Captain

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  6. SmartAlec

    SmartAlec Team Captain

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    Just recalling the reported 60+ detectives working on investigating historic unsolved murders and missing persons.

    Including the 30 or so from NSW. :)

    I wonder how many from other states and other jurisdictions.

    That quite an overtime and secondment bill.

    And they have been around for quite a while.

    The payback will be worth the investment.

    Any thoughts on why so many?
     
  7. BlueE

    BlueE All Australian

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  8. Dan Baker

    Dan Baker Club Legend

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    Id be on that like Donkey Kong.
    Lisa Brown had heroin addiction according media also. Someone not paying their bills?
    A lot of the murders heroin related and heroin in Glyde st Mosman park as per the Mallard book.

    What does Smart Alec say? I just give the commands? Was he their debt collector?

    We had conversation years ago about Brown living out near him and the potential.

    Someone kept abusing me, saying' "stop trying to connect all the murders together" when really I was testing the possibility.

    That was the same type of abuse when I modelled a highly transient killer in the baby in the suitcase in South Aust, mapped to Canberra and NSW.

    Ive always said, "where there is smoke!"

    Is our man part time hit man heroin trouble shooter?
    Janes Claremont Mystery Man is a tall 70kgs ringing wet with his shirt pulled out as much as possible like he knew where the cameras were to hide his boney body.
    Very heroin user like.
    That was something else I was abused for, saying he knew where the cameras were.
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2017
  9. BlueE

    BlueE All Australian

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    I think that she was the street to pay her bills. Doesn't mean Jane or the others were on heroin though.

    What did your modelling in the baby in the suitcase entail?
     
  10. Dan Baker

    Dan Baker Club Legend

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    I think you need to read again. About 4 posts up. The media stated clearly Lisa Brown had a heroin habit. I have not made mention of Jane. I have said the complete opposite.
     
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  11. Dan Baker

    Dan Baker Club Legend

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    I'd say the Lisa Brown disappearance is unrelated to CSK. I see she went missing in 1998 - The same year as Clare Garabedian who was in the same business got a hotshot .. coincidence ?
    https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/claremont-serial-killings.985161/page-19


    The killing occurred on August 23, 1998, when the 21-year-old victim was forcibly injected with a lethal dose of heroin, known as a 'hot shot', while being suffocated with a pillow.
    Her body was discovered in the room later that day by motel cleaning staff.
    Ms Garabedian was a heroin addict and worked as a prostitute to fund her addiction.
    In late June 1998, Ms Garabedian had made a complaint to the police that Coates and one of his co-offenders in the motel murder, Amanda Kaylene Hoy, had deprived her of her liberty and had threatened and assaulted her.
    A month later, Coates and Hoy were charged with deprivation of liberty, threats to kill and assault occasining bodily harm. Ms Garabedian would have been a crucial witness in the state's case against the pair.
    http://www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/h...l-thrown-out-20090812-ei4e.html#ixzz2u6PZbl7S


    [​IMG]

    Judge Blaxell found that, while Coates may not have been in the room when the heroin was administered, he was satisfied beyond a reasonable doubt that Coates organised the killing.
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2007-12-19/mother-welcomes-guilty-verdict-against-her/993032

    Thomas Nicholls and Amanda Hoy, Martin Graeme Coates, 44, was convicted of the 1998 wilful murder of 21-year-old street prostitute Clare Garabedian.
    www.bluelight.org/vb/.../344162-NEWS-The-Australian-Retrial-over-heroin-death
    MARTIN GRAEME COATES v THE QUEEN
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2017
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  12. metic

    metic Team Captain

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    http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2007-12-19/clare-garadedian-died-from-a-hotshot-of-heroin-and/993044

    "The 21-year-old victim was forcibly injected with a lethal dose of heroin, known as a 'hot shot', while being suffocated with a pillow."

    Hard to understand how someone could inject a huge dose of H into a vein while they're being suffocated, veins are hard to find on addicts bodies .
    One must have been before the other, thats got to be a lie ?


    http://www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/h...l-thrown-out-20090812-ei4e.html#ixzz2u6PZbl7S
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2017
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  13. Dan Baker

    Dan Baker Club Legend

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    I guess police have intimate knowledge of the heroin network in Perth over a number of years. Not excluding speedway entities.

    Clare had an older sister Shelly G too.

    MARTIN GRAEME COATES v THE QUEEN. The High Court of ... claimed he was offered $2,000 to give Ms Garabedian a “hot shot” (a heroin overdose) while posing as her client at a motel ... injected her with heroin, Mr Coates stood on her neck, Mr Davis cleaned away fingerprints (although his were later ...

    Mr Davis said the pair arrived and Mr Nicholls held a pillow over her face, Mr Davis and Mr Coates each
    injected her with heroin, Mr Coates stood on her neck, Mr Davis cleaned away fingerprints (although his
    were later found), Mr Nicholls collected incriminating items, and Mr Coates wiped down Ms Garabedian’s
    body with a wet towel.

    www.hcourt.gov.au/assets/publications/judgment-summaries/.../hca1-2005-02-3.pdf

    [​IMG]
    https://books.google.com.au/books?id=-7CXMIK4BhMC&pg=PT128&lpg=PT128&dq="Martin+Graeme+Coates"+++heroin&source=bl&ots=aqxhk7QLRo&sig=HXFrXzIxnzAJDu9eCtqFuF9fbpQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjszO6tvITYAhXMu7wKHW3mAxcQ6AEIVzAH#v=onepage&q="Martin Graeme Coates" + heroin&f=false
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2017
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  14. metic

    metic Team Captain

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    shellyg likes this.
  15. SmartAlec

    SmartAlec Team Captain

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    Last edited: Dec 31, 2017
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  16. Dan Baker

    Dan Baker Club Legend

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    "Lisa had become estranged from her family. She had a couple of children that she didn't have custody of and she'd developed a heroin habit," he said.
    http://www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/c...-of-missing-and-murdered-20161231-gtk9el.html

    "Darylyn Ugle disappeared in 2003. She had been working as a prostitute and was last seen leaving a friend's flat in Bulwer Street. Five weeks later, in April 2003, her body was found by bush walkers under a burnt out tree close to Mundaring Weir."
     
  17. Badge666

    Badge666 Debutant

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    After Ciara Glennon was lulled into a false sense of security and abducted the City of Perth was in an uproar. Young girls left nightclubs to go home in groups,anyone silly enough to offer a lift home to any girl leaving a pub or nightclub( if they didn't run afoul of the undercover cops trawling,) would certainly have their car registration taken and reported to Police immediately.
    So the nasty little" trick" the CSK had been using in Claremont was obsolete -if he tried it on again he would be caught ,-period.
    There was only one place in Perth where a prospective killer could pull up in his car and stalk attractive young women without coming under suspicion and being reported /investigated ,- the Highgate Street walker ,/sex worker scene.
    Eighteen months had passed since the culmination of the Claremont murder rampage, people were starting to drop their guard slightly. Monday and Tuesday nights were the quietest nights of the week for the working girls, the streets were deserted , the girls were keen for the little business that was around less chance of being seen or noticed. Pull up,in the car , gone in sixty seconds.
    The time of the abduction, (12 am) victims age, looks and the fact she disappeared off the street were a further taunt to the bumbling WAPOL. who having been advised by the extremely accurate overseas profilers that the CSK was likely enjoying his notoriety hosed down speculation that Lisa was likely a CSK victim .
    Unfortunately the line of work Lisa was involved in made it easier for them to do so,and her abduction did not get the saturation press coverage and microscopic police and public attention that it deserved at the time.
     
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  18. Dan Baker

    Dan Baker Club Legend

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    "A terrifying encounter with a sinister man in a car equipped with 'abduction tools' has been pinpointed as a potential moment the police allowed a prime suspect to walk away without inquiry, as they were too focused on a man they believed to be the killer.

    'It seems to me the Macro taskforce was a situation where the cops really mucked up and now we've got a cover up. And that's the saddest part, that they've never said 'we made a mistake', said former West Australian officer Con Bayens."


    "The former head of WA's prostitution taskforce says police looking for the Claremont serial killer in the 1990s and 2000s were dismissive of a suspect because they were too focused on trying to tie another man to the crime."


    "Mr Bayens fears investigators failed to adequately probe potential suspects he encountered while running his taskforce between July 2000 and August 2002.

    One particularly harrowing night has 'haunted' him 'for years' and Mr Bayens is adamant the disturbing man he found was never properly investigated by the taskforce."


    "Mr Bayens recalls the chilling night he pulled over a man during an undercover operation in Highgate in 2002 - 11 kilometres away from Claremont.

    The boot was lined with blue plastic and there was a pair of pliers and masking tape – disturbing equipment which he believed appeared to be for an abduction.

    The driver was questioned but Mr Bayens"


    "That just hit about 10 on my weird s***-o-meter."

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ee-focused-tying-man-crime.html#ixzz53HHqvccA
     
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  19. ezza77

    ezza77 Rookie

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    A little birdy told me that he used to live on Fountain way in huntingdale along with the accused and .... Lisa Brown. Can anyone help try verify this?
    Very interested in it as if she was a sex worker working odd hours, could've walked past the wrong house late one night and straight into the hands of a serial killer. Scary sheet
     
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  20. Sherrinator2018

    Sherrinator2018 Debutant

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    Looks like Con Bayen could have had him in his sight.
     
  21. metic

    metic Team Captain

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    Do you think so sherrinator?
    Why do you believe that ?
     
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  22. Sherrinator2018

    Sherrinator2018 Debutant

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    Someone targeting prostitutes in town.
    Con Bayen pulls over a boot lined Commodore in a prostitute area.

    Lisa Brown?
    Darrelyn Ugle?

    We really still no nothing of the evidence
     
  23. georgiegirl

    georgiegirl Scooby-Doo

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    This makes a lot of sense. It figures that after the police started cracking down in Claremont that the CSK moved on to Northbridge girls. Easy to get into his vehicle and unlikely to complain to the police. I suspect he killed Lisa and as well that there are probably other victims who lived to tell the tale. If only the useless WAPOL cared enough to put two and two together they may have solved this 19 years ago. Perth is a really small town, and Claremont is not far from Northbridge. Seriously how many violent sexual preditors did the cops think were operating? The incompetence of the WA police in ignoring similar violent attacks both before, during and after the Claremont murders will be highlighted following the court case, when people who know things will be able to speak out finally. I think the CSK will be shown to be a prolific sexual preditor who, despite having access to consentual sex, attacks women because he enjoys violent sex.
     
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  24. Dan Baker

    Dan Baker Club Legend

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    An interesting point might be that any prostitutes recognise the current accused? Although Id say the premeditated crime meant he would have stayed off the radar.

    Sounds familiar doesn't it GeorgieGirl

    Daily News, 28 May 1988

    Dorothy, a 44 year old woman had left Clouds Nightclub at the Sheraton, crossed Adelaide Terrace and got into her car on Hill st
    What followed was such a systematic & sadistic bashing that police were to find clumps of her hair the next day amongst blood and pearls from her necklace he'd torn from her neck in his frenzy of pulverizing blows.

    She believes he's in his 20's-30's.

    He ground the abrasive palm into her face, Repeatedly punching her in the mouth. He bashed her against a brick wall, dragged her to a span of metal poles and beat her like a doll against them.
    He dragged her across the street into a courier car park, flung her face down and stepped on the base of her spine. He punched her kidneys and ground her face into the ground until her bladder and bowels gave way.
    He pulled her arms behind her and wrapped them in parcel tape stolen from the couriers. He tied the cummerbund from her dress around her mouth and then taped her ankles.
    She thought she was about to be raped, instead he kept running the sticky tape around her until she was wrapped like an Egyptian mummy, a cocoon.
    https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/julie-cutler-murder-1988-cottesloe-wa.1180051/page-10
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2018
  25. georgiegirl

    georgiegirl Scooby-Doo

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    Any former prostitutes... I doubt there are many still working now. I used to volunteer on the fit van (needle exchange) and live on Lake St and Brisbane Terrace in the mid 90s and knew some of the girls. Most have either turned their lives around or are dead or missing. It wouldn't surprise me if there are more missing girls attributable to the csk. Girls who weren't worth as much to WAPOL. Girls who were never reported missing. Northbridge girls. And given the recent 250k reward for Lisa Brown I say the cops are looking at all angles finally. If only they weren't so short sighted/negligent back then they may have caught him much sooner. He's lived a good life while the ghosts of all the dead girls continue to haunt those left behind. He should have been in jail, not out raping and killing more Perth girls. The cops have a lot to answer for.
     
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