Analysis List Analysis

[SaintsSeptember]

We have the worse coach in the league if we're talking stats...need to pick up in that area over all else

Cracked record is boring.

 

[Mikka84]

There's something mediocre about our list that i can't quite work out in my head..

We haven't any real elite players, but no shockers..

Lets say we were to bring in 4 elite players - it would be hard to find the ones to drop that you couldn't argue a case for..

I think that's where our biggest problem lies. We have so many B grade players that are Afl level, but wouldn't quite make top 8 sides and won't be leading us into finals.

In the short term - its hard to drop these players to make way for younger, potential elite players. Needs a hard edged coach implement it.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

There's something mediocre about our list that i can't quite work out in my head..

We haven't any real elite players, but no shockers..

Lets say we were to bring in 4 elite players - it would be hard to find the ones to drop that you couldn't argue a case for..

I think that's where our biggest problem lies. We have so many B grade players that are Afl level, but wouldn't quite make top 8 sides and won't be leading us into finals.

In the short term - its hard to drop these players to make way for younger, potential elite players. Needs a hard edged coach implement it.

It would depend who you bring it.
But i know what you mean, someone the other day wrote, "Pierce did nothing wrong when he played". Its not about doing nothing wrong, its about what they can bring to the table.
Bring in Patrick Cripps and Nathan Fyfe and i have not trouble dropping our Dunstan and Ross in an instant.
Ruck is an obvious weakness, and surely our plethora of forwards is designed to get a team that is the next level up in this area.
Issac Smith comes in and its pretty easy to drop Newnes or Sinclair

Its not so much OLDER players that need to go out , but more mediocre ones.
Savage, Newnes, Armitage, Dunstan, Brown, Longer are not that bad, but they don't have much untapped potential left , but we need the newer players to play at a similar level before they can replace them.

 

[Mikka84]

It would depend who you bring it.
But i know what you mean, someone the other day wrote, "Pierce did nothing wrong when he played". Its not about doing nothing wrong, its about what they can bring to the table.
Bring in Patrick Cripps and Nathan Fyfe and i have not trouble dropping our Dunstan and Ross in an instant.
Ruck is an obvious weakness, and surely our plethora of forwards is designed to get a team that is the next level up in this area.
Issac Smith comes in and its pretty easy to drop Newnes or Sinclair

Its not so much OLDER players that need to go out , but more mediocre ones.
Savage, Newnes, Armitage, Dunstan, Brown, Longer are not that bad, but they don't have much untapped potential left , but we need the newer players to play at a similar level before they can replace them.

It’s hard hey.. bring in Fyfe and Dusty and Steel goes out of the middle where he’s best.. was terrible as a half forward.. BUT - you need these elite players. Something just isn’t structurally right with the balance of the list..

 

[gringo2011]

It’s hard hey.. bring in Fyfe and Dusty and Steel goes out of the middle where he’s best.. was terrible as a half forward.. BUT - you need these elite players. Something just isn’t structurally right with the balance of the list..

Yeah, it's just that beige, vanilla, average kind of vibe. We need a few to step up. There is something similar to Richmond but without our version of Dusty, Rance, Riewoldt or Cothin. I think we have Gresham tracking to be elite. We ned Steele or Ross go from very good to excellent to fill the Cotchin role...perhaps even Hanners if he can get back to his best and then the book ends. We probably need Billy to have an impact too. I think the small forwards are okay though and small backs are well sorted.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Yeah, it's just that beige, vanilla, average kind of vibe. We need a few to step up. There is something similar to Richmond but without our version of Dusty, Rance, Riewoldt or Cothin. I think we have Gresham tracking to be elite. We ned Steele or Ross go from very good to excellent to fill the Cotchin role...perhaps even Hanners if he can get back to his best and then the book ends. We probably need Billy to have an impact too. I think the small forwards are okay though and small backs are well sorted.

Ross is 25 now, and i don't think he's suddenly going to turn into that Ball winning beast.
So best chance is Steele IMO. He's demonstrated that he can get 10 clearances, or 20 contested possessions, not many footballers can say that.
Hannebery will help.
Acres or Sinclair?

Otherwise i think we are a couple of years off for the likes of Clark, Coffield, King or Bytel.

 

[AirWinmar]

Roberton, Carlisle and Webster are all good kicks.

I would pick Austin over Brown.
However, when Austin played FB last year, his position count was very low and his defensive skills were not as good as Browns.

McKenzie selected due to his defensive pressure, line breaking speed, toughness and intercept marking. His kicking isn't horrible either.
Geary because of leadership and defensive effort.

I like DMac as well and his kicking efficiency is high, but seemed to turn it over when he was breaking the lines at times this year, which are basically goal turnovers. Needs to improve here next season

 

[AirWinmar]

I doubt it, good players win contested footy, even good outside players.

I don't think our coaches have said, "kick it to your opponent " or "Back off if the other guy tries to get the ball".

Our best contested ball winner is Jack Steel , who is 43rd in the AFL.
17 teams had players who wins more contested ball per game than our best in 2018.

Hawks and Lions 1 player each.
Carlton, Bulldogs, Port , Essendon, GWS, Richmond 2.
Fremantle , North, Melbourne, Sydney, Suns 3.
West Coast, Cats 4.
Crows and Collingwood 5.

The top contested ball winners are like a who's who,
Cripps, Oliver, Mitchell, Fyfe, Cunnington , Dangerfield, Neale, Kennedy, Lyons, Viney, McRae

Next year I reckon Steele will be in that group

 

[mightymalaka]

Next year I reckon Steele will be in that group

The players that I believe have the capacity to make the jump to elite on our list are...
Billings
Gresham
Carlisle
Hanneberry
Acres
One of the three big Fwds currently Membrey, McCartin or Bruce
Webster
Jack Steven ( pretty close as it is )
Steele
And in time M King...H Clark....Coffield...

We need at least 2 or 3 of these to go to another level!
Very possible imo!

 

[mad-saint-guy]

I think it's an interesting exercise to pick a 22 which would be most likely to win a game right now vs the 22 that we need to be fielding in 2019 for the sake of the club.

2019 round one best 22 for immediate results (and therefore the 22 that Richo will field to save his job)

B: Geary, Brown, Webster
HB: Savage, Carlisle, Roberton
C: Sinclair, Steele, Hannebery
HF: Billings, Bruce, Kent
F: Long, Membrey, Gresham

Foll: Longer, Steven, Ross
Int: Acres, Armitage, McKenzie, Newnes

This is the side I think we need to field for the majority of the season in order to get the club back into the finals ASAP

B: Geary, Austin, Webster
HB: Coffield, Carlisle, Roberton
C: Ross, Steele, Hannebery
HF: Billings, Marshall, Gresham
F: Long, Bruce, Membrey

Foll: Longer, Steven, Acres
Int: Battle, Clark, McKenzie, Sinclair

OUT: Savage, Kent, Armitage, Newnes
IN: Coffield, Clark, Marshall, Battle

With all this said it wouldn't surprise me to see the 4 mature age draftees given preference over the likes of Sinclair, Acres, McKenzie, Coffield, Clark etc in an effort to save face after the club decided to take a handful of (largely underwhelming) state league players instead of drafting kids from the elite junior system.

 

[gringo2011]

Ross is 25 now, and i don't think he's suddenly going to turn into that Ball winning beast.
So best chance is Steele IMO. He's demonstrated that he can get 10 clearances, or 20 contested possessions, not many footballers can say that.
Hannebery will help.
Acres or Sinclair?

Otherwise i think we are a couple of years off for the likes of Clark, Coffield, King or Bytel.

Ross has never had trouble getting the ball, he needs to use it a bit better but the amount he touches it is elite. He's arguably in our best 4 players.

 

[AirWinmar]

The players that I believe have the capacity to make the jump to elite on our list are...
Billings
Gresham
Carlisle
Hanneberry
Acres
One of the three big Fwds currently Membrey, McCartin or Bruce
Webster
Jack Steven ( pretty close as it is )
Steele
And in time M King...H Clark....Coffield...

We need at least 2 or 3 of these to go to another level!
Very possible imo!

Agree with you here MM. From the group (most of them) under 24, they should get improvement from another preseason and harder body and bigger tank. If a few of them step up, a lot of other guys will look a lot better too . Im very bullish on Steele because i would think his last 3 or 4 games was elite

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I think it's an interesting exercise to pick a 22 which would be most likely to win a game right now vs the 22 that we need to be fielding in 2019 for the sake of the club.

2019 round one best 22 for immediate results (and therefore the 22 that Richo will field to save his job)

B: Geary, Brown, Webster
HB: Savage, Carlisle, Roberton
C: Sinclair, Steele, Hannebery
HF: Billings, Bruce, Kent
F: Long, Membrey, Gresham

Foll: Longer, Steven, Ross
Int: Acres, Armitage, McKenzie, Newnes

This is the side I think we need to field for the majority of the season in order to get the club back into the finals ASAP

B: Geary, Austin, Webster
HB: Coffield, Carlisle, Roberton
C: Ross, Steele, Hannebery
HF: Billings, Marshall, Gresham
F: Long, Bruce, Membrey

Foll: Longer, Steven, Acres
Int: Battle, Clark, McKenzie, Sinclair

OUT: Savage, Kent, Armitage, Newnes
IN: Coffield, Clark, Marshall, Battle

With all this said it wouldn't surprise me to see the 4 mature age draftees given preference over the likes of Sinclair, Acres, McKenzie, Coffield, Clark etc in an effort to save face after the club decided to take a handful of (largely underwhelming) state league players instead of drafting kids from the elite junior system.

I only see one who could play instead of Sinclair or Acres, and maybe one who could play instead of McKenzie or Coffield. Two of them are probably restricted to the forward line.

 

[mad-saint-guy]

I only see one who could play instead of Sinclair or Acres, and maybe one who could play instead of McKenzie or Coffield. Two of them are probably restricted to the forward line.

I think all of Kent, Parker and Young are in competition with Sinclair and Acres (despite being best suited to the midfield, the latter two are regularly played forward), while Hind and Wilkie are in competition with McKenzie and Coffield.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Ross has never had trouble getting the ball, he needs to use it a bit better but the amount he touches it is elite. He's arguably in our best 4 players.

I agree with that Gringo, but talking about winning contested possessions, Ross only rarely gets more than 10 a game. Some of the top players are averaging around 15. They go into a pack, they come out with the ball, then they handball it to someone like Ross.

 

[majortinkle]

I agree with that Gringo, but talking about winning contested possessions, Ross only rarely gets more than 10 a game. Some of the top players are averaging around 15. They go into a pack, they come out with the ball, then they handball it to someone like Ross.

I think that’s because of the role we ask Ross to play.

He has it in him but we intend him to be 1st receiver rather than ball winner so his stats aren’t as high for contested as they could be

 

[gringo2011]

I agree with that Gringo, but talking about winning contested possessions, Ross only rarely gets more than 10 a game. Some of the top players are averaging around 15. They go into a pack, they come out with the ball, then they handball it to someone like Ross.

He's been played predominantly as an outside runner since about his third year. He was an underwhelming inside mid and Richo turned him into the guy who's getting some separation from the pack to give an option to carry the ball away. I'd compare him to a Zac Merrett type.

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy...2=16&type=A&pid1=3943&pid2=3663&fid1=S&fid2=S

 

[SaintsSeptember]

He's been played predominantly as an outside runner since about his third year. He was an underwhelming inside mid and Richo turned him into the guy who's getting some separation from the pack to give an option to carry the ball away. I'd compare him to a Zac Merrett type.

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy...2=16&type=A&pid1=3943&pid2=3663&fid1=S&fid2=S

Is that Career averages?
Last season Ross was pretty consistent, he had a fair few games where he got 12 or 13 contested possessions.
Merritt ( 2 years earlier in his career than Ross ) was up and down a lot more, but at his best was getting 16.
Ross is close to enough contests to display the ability if he had it, you could argue that Steele has had less opportunity to show it.

 

[gringo2011]

Is that Career averages?
Last season Ross was pretty consistent, he had a fair few games where he got 12 or 13 contested possessions.
Merritt ( 2 years earlier in his career than Ross ) was up and down a lot more, but at his best was getting 16.
Ross is close to enough contests to display the ability if he had it, you could argue that Steele has had less opportunity to show it.

Merrett is an outside mid /spread runner who has had to win more ball because they have very few inside mids. Ross is an outside spread runner who wasn't a great inside ball winner when he was an inside mid. We generally use Stuv as our main ball winner and this year we have been using Steele as a lock down on the best inside mids. I would suggest he has more opportunity to get first use because he's there but they both have a role. To me Ross is the least of our problems, just need some more inside help for Stuv. Ironically Hanners was always more of a outside runner too but has been turned into an inside mid since being injured.

 

[St Muir]

Merrett is an outside mid /spread runner who has had to win more ball because they have very few inside mids. Ross is an outside spread runner who wasn't a great inside ball winner when he was an inside mid. We generally use Stuv as our main ball winner and this year we have been using Steele as a lock down on the best inside mids. I would suggest he has more opportunity to get first use because he's there but they both have a role. To me Ross is the least of our problems, just need some more inside help for Stuv. Ironically Hanners was always more of a outside runner too but has been turned into an inside mid since being injured.

Given that, do you think the quality of Ross’ distribution is under par for the role or is it more about players not providing targets for him?

 

[Tommy Wigs]

Ross has never had trouble getting the ball, he needs to use it a bit better but the amount he touches it is elite. He's arguably in our best 4 players.

Yep, don't understand some of the comments on Ross on here.

 

[Mikka84]

Yep, don't understand some of the comments on Ross on here.

Ross’ biggest problem is there aren’t enough stars around him in the middle. It means we all look at Ross as the number 2 behind Stuv. Ross isn’t and shouldn’t be the 2nd best mid in a team. But not his fault.
He’s just not damaging with his disposal so when Stuv is tagged out of the game, Ross stands out too much.

 

[St Muir]

Ross’ biggest problem is there aren’t enough stars around him in the middle. It means we all look at Ross as the number 2 behind Stuv. Ross isn’t and shouldn’t be the 2nd best mid in a team. But not his fault.
He’s just not damaging with his disposal so when Stuv is tagged out of the game, Ross stands out too much.

If that's the case, how do you see his role then? There's some good supporting posts for Seb but I'm getting confused. If we're accepting his disposal isn't good, and he's not any good at getting the ball out at clearances, is he going to be around long-term, if some of the younger players kick on? I don't think Ross is one of our biggest problems by the way, I'm just interested in how people think we can best use him.

 

[Mikka84]

If that's the case, how do you see his role then? There's some good supporting posts for Seb but I'm getting confused. If we're accepting his disposal isn't good, and he's not any good at getting the ball out at clearances, is he going to be around long-term, if some of the younger players kick on? I don't think Ross is one of our biggest problems by the way, I'm just interested in how people think we can best use him.

I actually don’t think his disposal is too bad, just not damaging. His kicks are quite loopy at stages, but 40m or less they are accurate.

Ross is a very good companion in the middle. IMO he’ll exceed when there a genuine elite skilled mid he can feed the ball to or be the link in the middle.

 

[St Muir]

I actually don’t think his disposal is too bad, just not damaging. His kicks are quite loopy at stages, but 40m or less they are accurate.

Ross is a very good companion in the middle. IMO he’ll exceed when there a genuine elite skilled mid he can feed the ball to or be the link in the middle.

Thanks mate