List balance going forward

[Silvagnis]

Rucks/KPP

Ackland.
Aisake.
Cloke.
Hampson.
Jacobs.*
Kreuzer.


Tall forwards

Edwards
Fevola.
Fisher.
Hartlett.
Waite.

Tall defenders.

Austin.
Bower.
Jamison.
Setanta O'hAilpin.
Saddington.
Thornton.
Waite.

Midfielders/wings

Bentick.
Blackwell.
Carrazzo.
Gibbs.
Grigg.
Hadley.
Hill.*
Joseph*
Judd.
Murphy.
Scotland.
Simpson.
Stevens.
Walker.

Small/Medium defenders/taggers.

Anderson.
Armfield.
Bannister.
Browne.
Jackson.
Pfeiffer.
Shields.*

Small/Medium forwards.

Benjamin.
Betts.
Ellard.*
Houlihan.
Russell.
Wiggins.

* rookie listed players.

I feel Ackland, Cloke, Jacobs, Saddington, Wiggins, Hartlett, Russell, Edwards and Jacobs won't measure up and will be gone in two years time. So we definitely need to make finding quality key defenders, tall forwards and a player like Steve Johnson or Nathan Brown a priority in the next three drafts.

 

[AndyWalkersGirl]

Cloke could be a very good CHF for us in 2008. I also look forward to seeing Edwards play. Hartlett problem is injury as we all know. If he doesn't hold up nxt year, it's goodbye I reckon. As for Russell, I have no problems with him, and I think he will be a good contributer for us next year and onwards.

 

[parrot]

Waite should play forward. He has superstar KP forward potential without question.

 

[TorresIsGod]

Russell should have been traded when Port were interested in him...

Why did we fight so hard to keep him?

 

[Blue Dimension]

I've got alot of confidence in Hartlett - dont understand why people are on his back. Of course, its natural to be fustrated that he continually gets injured, however there is no doubting his ability. Just needs to stay out on the park and he'll be a very good aquisition to our team.

 

[Silvagnis]

Aisake might make it as a forward, so I hope we draft a forward like Hamish Hartlett next year. We won't be anywhere near the first pick in the next draft, let alone a top three pick, so we have Buckley's of getting our hands on Hurley. Drafting a junior ruck like Ryder who is too short to ruck, but has the athleticism to play KPP and skills to use the ball on the overlap isn't a bad idea.

McKernan and Trengrove?

I've got alot of confidence in Hartlett - dont understand why people are on his back. Of course, its natural to be fustrated that he continually gets injured, however there is no doubting his ability. Just needs to stay out on the park and he'll be a very good aquisition to our team.

Adam looked like's he slimmed down a bit and lost some weight in a recent photo, so I'm hopeful that he will have a good year and his hamstring troubles are a thing of the past.

I had Waite down back because I have Harts replacing Kennedy at CHF in our plans.

I think the Kennedy trade will work in our favour and Harts will step up to be a good weapon in our forwardline.

 

[HBF]

Cloke could be a very good CHF for us in 2008. I also look forward to seeing Edwards play. Hartlett problem is injury as we all know. If he doesn't hold up nxt year, it's goodbye I reckon. As for Russell, I have no problems with him, and I think he will be a good contributer for us next year and onwards.

I'm not sure if he has the tank to play CHF AWG. I'd use him in the ruck, and either rotate him into the FP, or give him a spell on the bench.

 

[Crippa#9]

I tend to agree with AWG - I think if Cloke can work his arse off this pre season he could make himself into a CHF, at this stage I have him just in my 22.

Our future rucks are Kreuzer, Hampson and Aisake. Ackland and Jacobs will be gone by the end of next season.

Hartlett hasn't won me over yet, With no Whitnall and JK to compete for that CHF spot, its 2008 or never for him.

I also agree that Waite should be played forward. Judd apart, I think he is one of the most talented players ability wise on our list, lets himslef down sometimes with bad decisions, hence he should be played forward. I'd like to see him roam around the 30m-60m area, Fev in the square, Eddie at their feet and Fish as support. Perhaps Kreuzer in his first year could play out of the square, with the leading Fev, and be the long bombing target.

That's I have the forward line for 2008 anyway...

 

[DonFletch]

cloke is too slow, immobile to make it as a CHF, his shoulder recos meen marking above his head will be a problem, and he is too small to ruck.

if he gets a game, he will pinch hit in the ruck, and maybe FP
...not a long term prospect, will be phased out with ackland when hampson/aisake/kruezer step up

 

[barnesy]

I think Saddington will offer more up forward next season than down back.

When required of course.

 

[windows]

I've got alot of confidence in Hartlett - dont understand why people are on his back. Of course, its natural to be fustrated that he continually gets injured, however there is no doubting his ability. Just needs to stay out on the park and he'll be a very good aquisition to our team.

I have no confidence in him. And that view is formed having watched the best of him in the VFL. I have never been enthused by him. He is simply not going to be athletic enough to get off his man at AFL level. He is not powerful enough to replace that lack of athleticism. He is not footy smart or agile enough to replace that lack of athleticism or power. All he is, is tall and a long kick. He will be gone at the end of the year.

 

[Beloved]

Cloke could be a very good CHF for us in 2008. I also look forward to seeing Edwards play. Hartlett problem is injury as we all know. If he doesn't hold up nxt year, it's goodbye I reckon. As for Russell, I have no problems with him, and I think he will be a good contributer for us next year and onwards.

That's what I think. He has the structure to be a strong and successful KPP.

 

[windows]

Cloke could be a very good CHF for us in 2008. I also look forward to seeing Edwards play. Hartlett problem is injury as we all know. If he doesn't hold up nxt year, it's goodbye I reckon. As for Russell, I have no problems with him, and I think he will be a good contributer for us next year and onwards.

No problems with him? Really? His fumbling, slow brain, poor decision making and petrified intensity do not concern you? His inability to turn draft camp speed into football speed doesnt worry you? A complete lack of one on one talent no problem? The fact he can't really lock down a guy, either tagging, or off half back, without COMPLETELY sacrificing any likelihood of getting the ball a concern?

He has an ever reducing chance of making it IMO. He is coming into his fourth year and yet is no certainty to be in our starting 22. If that doesn't concern you I'm not sure what would.

 

[Beloved]

I think Saddington will offer more up forward next season than down back.

When required of course.

Quite possible that he will be used more in the forward line. He's a pretty expensive backman and he can kick the ball well. Seems as though the move should have been made a long while ago.

 

[windows]

I think Saddington will offer more up forward next season than down back.

When required of course.

For Preston?

 

[barnesy]

For Preston?

At a pinch if he plays seniors then there.... but of course the others should be streets ahead...

 

[Blue Dimension]

I have no confidence in him. And that view is formed having watched the best of him in the VFL. I have never been enthused by him. He is simply not going to be athletic enough to get off his man at AFL level. He is not powerful enough to replace that lack of athleticism. He is not footy smart or agile enough to replace that lack of athleticism or power. All he is, is tall and a long kick. He will be gone at the end of the year.

I'll hold you to that windows .

My bet is he'll be a revelation for us up forward this year. He'll offer more versatility up forward, around the ground and will add to our multi dimensional forward line of Fisher, Fevola and Waite.

 

[Silvagnis]

If you took out Cloke(won't make it anyway), Simpson and Fisher from our 23 and under line up, you'd have this team.

B: Pfeiffer Jamison Anderson
HB: Armfield Austin Bower
C: Grigg Bentick Walker
HF: Benjamin Aisake Russell
F: Betts Hartlett Edwards
R: Kreuzer Gibbs Murphy

I/C Blackwell Jackson Browne Hampson

Potentially, we have a great onball division and tonnes of legspeed and run when you can add Judd and Simpson to that team. Yet names such as Edwards, Aisake and Hartlett listed as forwards suggest we need to find at least three potential key forwards to win a flag. We don't have any young KPP such as Roughead, Franklin, Cloke, etc. who can kick five goals and have the potential to dominate the opposition's best defenders. The Hawks, Pies and Eagles have more than one coming through, yet we only have Fevola, Waite and Fisher who are all 24 plus.

The club should make this their biggest priority for the next few drafts now that the midfield and rucks appears to be sorting themselves out. But it might take at least two drafts to find three to four talls of the quality of Franklin, Roughead and Thorp. Hawthorn have drafted at least four KPP with top six selections, but I fully expect Carlton to move out of the bottom four with our midfield and the cards might not fall our way at the draft with one 1st round pick.

The Bombers stocks of young forwards are the prime example of this when they only have Gumbleton coming through.

Is this a potential weakness when a personality such as Fevola is our best forward and Waite and Fisher aren't likely to become A grade forwards

Fisher and Waite are good on their day, but they're not pure silk and in the same class as Brown, Riewoldt, Cloke, Roughead, Thorp and Franklin. I'm not saying we shouldn't have traded Kennedy for Judd and picked Gourdis in the last draft because we didn't rate the available forwards. I would like to hear some opinions on our list structure when this discrepancy now stands out like a sore thumb IMO.

Would you trade Fevola so we have three first round picks in the next draft to start the rebuild of our forwardline?

Fevola might play into his thirties and would hurt us in the short term, but he has a troublesome groin plus other niggling injuries and he turns 27 this year. It would have to be a top ten pick and a first round pick for Fevola to make it worth our while when used in conjunction with our first pick. Depending on the draft, we might be stuck with a forwardline who lack the key forwards to take advantage of our midfield and beat the very best backlines.

The Cats, Hawks, Eagles, Pies and the Lions don't have this problem with their mix of tall, medium and small forwards.

What would you prefer, five year of Fevs if he stays on the straight and narrow?

Or at least ten years from two tall forwards and a midfielder drafted in the first round?

We do want to start winning after the past six years, but that shouldn't stop us from doing whatever it takes to rebuild our list and address it's weaknesses if it includes making the hard call on a player. I'd go for the latter and build a forwardline around our four tall targets since Fev will never grow up and was a disgraceful against the Dockers. Lance was once an important of the team and considered untradeable on here because he would help our young players develop and was a favourite of a few posters on here.

And look at how he ended up.

If trading Fev is the only way to address the imbalance of our list, I'd do it if the offer was too good to refuse.

A little like Tarrant, I doubt he'll ever grow up.

With the new culture we want to build after attracting players with the character of Judd and Hadley. I think anyone who doesn't rise to the club's new standards will be shown the door like Lance whose body and lack of preparation finished him.

PS. Franklin is just an example of the type of player we need.

 

[j-ham]

Why would we trade JK and picks 3+20 for Judd who is 24 then trade Fevola and rebuild the forward line for 4-5 years? Fev is there because we want to win premierships between 2009-2013.

Kreuzer, Hampson and Aisake will be much more than handy in the forward line over the next ten years anyway IMO.

This and next season should give time to Hartlett and Edwards to prove themselves at senior level, if they don't cut it, no sweat - the triple towers should all be well established by 2010 and we'll have added a few more kids in the next two drafts.

 

[BlueMania]

aw geez TG . I dont know about trading fev although i do understand what your saying , surely he could work with a younger fwd who could assume his mantle upon retirement . There will also be more fwds coming through the system over the years . seems like a gamble to me . I'd like to see waite playing more as a fwd anyway .
What about hackland , aint seen much of him , would he be capable at hb/hf ?
Good post btw TG

 

[Silvagnis]

Why would we trade JK and picks 3+20 for Judd who is 24 then trade Fevola and rebuild the forward line for 4-5 years? Fev is there because we want to win premierships between 2009-2013.

Kreuzer, Hampson and Aisake will be much more than handy in the forward line over the next ten years anyway IMO.

This and next season should give time to Hartlett and Edwards to prove themselves at senior level, if they don't cut it, no sweat - the triple towers should all be well established by 2010 and we'll have added a few more kids in the next two drafts.

Why did the Pies, Eagles, Saints and Hawks trade Tarrant, Gehrig, Lappin, Hall and Thompson?

We shouldn't accept Fev's character flaws if he continues to behave like he has in the past. We have the youngest list in the AFL which will make or break the club, so we need to set Judd-like standards for everyone working at Carlton.

If a player keeps trangressing, show him the door.

They will play a bigger part than Fev in Carlton becoming the best club in the AFL once again. Fev is a selfish player on and off the field and I wouldn't be so certain he'll stay at Carlton. You would have laughed if I had told you Judd would be playing for Carlton this year. I'm confident Hughes and Rogers will pick the right footballers after they've drafted men with the right character in the past four drafts. The type of character and player we should look for is a Kennedy who wanted to stay at Carlton and didn't want to move to a club almost certain to play finals in 2008.

If Fev doesn't change, I don't want to be sitting here in three years time and reading posts along the lines of "If only we'd traded Whitnall to the Dogs/Demons for their first round pick in 2005 when we had the chance".

 

[audas]

Might get JK back...never know.


But I agree, Kreuzer may be looking to the forward line, along with Aisake.

I feel there may be some game plans which change, and so too does the type of player we need.

 

[Kramer1]

cloke is too slow, immobile to make it as a CHF, his shoulder recos meen marking above his head will be a problem, and he is too small to ruck.

if he gets a game, he will pinch hit in the ruck, and maybe FP
...not a long term prospect, will be phased out with ackland when hampson/aisake/kruezer step up

Seems to be a lot of Cloke doubters about...dont know why. The guy did everything right prior to getting injured last year, fights like hell for the ball, and he's coming only 23 or 24 which is still pretty young for a big guy.

He's actually pretty quick and mobile for a guy his size...not sure why you think him too slow. And not having a crack at you, but i'll put faith in the club medicos to assess whether or not his shoulders are up to it. If a guy like Lance went becasue of his knees, im pretty sure Cloke wouldnt get through with dicky shoulders.

Too short? He's taller than Jeff White, Adam Goodes and Troy Simmonds, and only an inch shorter than Brendan Lade, probably the premier ruck in the comp along with Cox.

Just think we should let the guy string a season or two together before we write him off.

 

[BlueMania]

Well said Kramer , couldn't agree more . I was very happy with clokes output last season prior to injury and i didn't realise he was that tall either . Give the man a fair go and see how he fares at the end of this year i say .

 

[one eyed bluey]

yep im a cloke fan, i think when we lost cloke we lost a lot of our structure, he can pinch hit at CHF and Ruck which allows us to play waite CHB or even Roam around the forward line like the big beast he is!
Cloke was doing a great job imo, I remember against the bombers the kid was knocked out in the dying seconds against the dons, but he willed himself back to his feet to lay a tackle on the in coming essedon player, potentially saving a rebounding attack, that won me over! Cloke has got a big heart! he would die for the blue boys! and his a handy player to have structure wise, end of story.