List Mgmt. List Balance

Been looking over our list changes and development in the last couple of years and it struck me that this appears to be the best balanced playing list we've had in a long time, potentially in Brad's entire time. Not saying this is our best 22 in that time, yet - I do think we've had stronger groups of say 24-25 players but I do think this is our strongest group up to around 30+ in Brad's time. It just seems that for the first time in a long time we have ready to go depth that is being pushed hard by developing players. There were years there where we had our core 4 mids and surrounded them with bit part players and square pegs in round holes.

When I talk about list balance I'm not necessarily talking about the medium term but just 2019. Probably the only two major vulnerabilities I see are with Brown & Goldstein. Brown in particular has no direct replacement but realistically, it’s pretty hard to ever have one that is proven and ready to go in a position like his - they're either going to be getting played in another position or they're going to be pushing to move to another club. Larkey if his body shape has further improved over the off season might be the one that was pushed there just for structure and development if required. Outside of these key players we look to have more puzzle pieces to shuffle around than we have since pre Scott. We’ll now see what Scott can do with a decent toolset or whether he has limitations that we need outside help to get past.

Be interested to hear others views on this purely looking at this in a short term 2019-20 at the most timeframe.
 
I’m comfortable with the ruck stocks
Goldy, Campbell and Xerri

I reckon Xerri in 2 years time will be ready

KPD is what I’m worried about with Thompson likely in his last year, and maj the unknown. Lots of reliance on Taz and McKay going forward

Would like Astbury, Haynes or Tomlinson as a free agent
 
Feb 19, 2016
29,260
36,587
AFL Club
North Melbourne
I’m comfortable with the ruck stocks
Goldy, Campbell and Xerri

I reckon Xerri in 2 years time will be ready

KPD is what I’m worried about with Thompson likely in his last year, and maj the unknown. Lots of reliance on Taz and McKay going forward

Would like Astbury, Haynes or Tomlinson as a free agent
Took the words right out of my mouth.
 

Pykie

Cancelled
10k Posts A Star Wars Fan Pokemon is Life North Melbourne - North 2007 Player Sponsor North Melbourne - 2013 Daw, Black and Gibson Player Sponsorship
Sep 17, 2006
20,605
45,615
Lord's
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Other Teams
Leeds United
It's a lot better than what it was, the last few years was probably the worst list balance this decade.

We had 7 or 8 key defenders on the list when forward lines are actually getting smaller and faster and we have had a consistent pairing of Thompson/Tarrant/3rd defender for a while. Majak is something they couldn't of foreseen and probably leaves us slightly thin there now, but tbh, we still have McKay, Durdin and Watson. Which from a pure numbers perspective is enough backup.

We had far too many flankers, which isn't entirely the list managers fault as some of them were recruited to be midfielders and just didn't develop. We've really been unable to find an elite half back flanker, which we've been trying to find for at least 5-6 drafts.

We haven't had nearly enough pure mid's on the list over the last 4 or so years. It's all the more evident when you see the VFL listed guys likes Holmes and Rippon carrying the midfield each week, the same was the case when we had Werribee.

We've also been lacking a couple of small forwards for a while.

Bringing in a bunch of needs like Thomas, Scott, Wilkinson, McKenzie are all good selections for list balance, Taylor and Crocker probably add to that flanker backlog, but they were best available and too good to pass up. When you add Polec, Tyson, Hall to the list, it's added a bunch of talent and depth to the midfields list strength.


I think priority over the next few years is to keep building that midfield depth over the next 2 years, look at a top forward prospect (tall or medium) at some stage in the next 3 drafts and potentially prioritise elite athletic medium defenders, as these will be hot property over the next decade.
 
Feb 11, 2013
15,353
31,743
AFL Club
North Melbourne
It's a lot better than what it was, the last few years was probably the worst list balance this decade.

We had 7 or 8 key defenders on the list when forward lines are actually getting smaller and faster and we have had a consistent pairing of Thompson/Tarrant/3rd defender for a while. Majak is something they couldn't of foreseen and probably leaves us slightly thin there now, but tbh, we still have McKay, Durdin and Watson. Which from a pure numbers perspective is enough backup.

We had far too many flankers, which isn't entirely the list managers fault as some of them were recruited to be midfielders and just didn't develop. We've really been unable to find an elite half back flanker, which we've been trying to find for at least 5-6 drafts.

We haven't had nearly enough pure mid's on the list over the last 4 or so years. It's all the more evident when you see the VFL listed guys likes Holmes and Rippon carrying the midfield each week, the same was the case when we had Werribee.

We've also been lacking a couple of small forwards for a while.

Bringing in a bunch of needs like Thomas, Scott, Wilkinson, McKenzie are all good selections for list balance, Taylor and Crocker probably add to that flanker backlog, but they were best available and too good to pass up. When you add Polec, Tyson, Hall to the list, it's added a bunch of talent and depth to the midfields list strength.


I think priority over the next few years is to keep building that midfield depth over the next 2 years, look at a top forward prospect (tall or medium) at some stage in the next 3 drafts and potentially prioritise elite athletic medium defenders, as these will be hot property over the next decade.
The other you’ve missed, who might surprise a few next year is Pittard.
He has all the tools to become an elite HBF.
 

LETSGOKANGAS

Norm Smith Medallist
May 7, 2007
6,924
8,011
Holding fast for take off
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Just got onboard with Kayo (is this the bloody best or what?)

Anyway watching Boomers record breaking game against St Kilda in 2016 and so happy we got rid of a bunch of players playing that day.

If you want to appreciate our list now compare it to 22 on the park that day.
 
Jun 9, 2001
37,647
145,038
Fogarty Street
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Other Teams
St Johnstone
Branching out from the Josh Kelly thread, there was a little bit of discussion (mainly from me) on how much value big price recruits have really had in helping clubs win premierships in recent history.

Using the abritrary measure of top 3 B&F placings in premiership teams over the last 10 years below are the results. This metric was chosen because frankly it's easy and simple to gather information and secondly because while blokes who pull out cameos on grand final day are handy, the below are the players who were adjudged by their own club to have had the best full seasons in their respective premiership sides.

West Coast 2018
Elliot Yeo – medium cost trade
Jack Redden - medium cost trade
Shannon Hurn – 1st round (North pick L )

Richmond 2017
Dustin Martin – top 5
Alex Rance – 1st round
Kane Lambert - rookie

Bulldogs 2016
Bontompelli – top 5
Dale Morris - rookie
Lachie Hunter – father-son

Hawthorn 2015
Josh Gibson – medium cost trade
Cyril Rioli – 1st round
Sam Mitchell – 3rd round

Hawthorn 2014
Jordan Lewis – top 10
Grant Birchall – 1st round (North pick L )
Jarryd Roughead – top 5

Hawthorn 2013
Josh Gibson – medium cost trade
Jarryd Roughead – top 5
Sam Mitchell – 3rd round

Sydney 2012
Josh Kennedy – medium cost trade
Ryan O’Keefe – 4th round
Kieran Jack - rookie

Geelong 2011
Corey Enright – 3rd round
Joel Corey – top 10
Jimmy Bartel – top 10

Collingwood 2010
Dane Swan – late pick
Scott Pendlebury – top 5
Dale Thomas – top 5

Geelong 2009
Gary Ablett – father-son, Corey Enright –3rd round (North pick L )
Jimmy Bartel – top 10
Joel Selwood – top 10

Summary – how did top 3 B&F premiership players come to their club:
  1. Top 5 picks (x5)
  2. Top 10 picks (x5)
  3. Medium cost trades – eg 2nd rounder+ (x5)
  4. 1st round picks 11+ (x4)
  5. 3rd round picks (x4)
  6. Rookie (x3)
  7. Father-son (x2)
  8. 4th round picks (x1)

Observations:
  • No big name / big price / big money recruits in that group
  • Want to get to the big dance? Simple - gather talent via top 10 selections, preferably top 5 ones and round it out with medium cost trades for needs and some speculative later 1st round picks. Sound obvious but lets restate the 1st point – no high price recruit has been top 3 B&F in a premiership team in the last 10 years
  • If you want to a flutter at the draft then stock up on 3rd rounders
  • Last year after reviewing North picks vs career longevity over the years our 2nd round selections stood out as our weakest round. Interesting to note that none of the above were 2nd round picks suggesting maybe it’s a league wide phenomena?
 
[*]Last year after reviewing North picks vs career longevity over the years our 2nd round selections stood out as our weakest round. Interesting to note that none of the above were 2nd round picks suggesting maybe it’s a league wide phenomena?
[/LIST]

Interesting stuff KC. Anecdotally I can't help but feel that 2nd round picks falling flat are a bit of a case of bargain sliders being chosen because they were "supposed" to go higher. Maybe there a bit of a lack of courage in this round due to this, especially if it's across the league.
 

benbanjo

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 16, 2009
9,359
10,977
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Branching out from the Josh Kelly thread, there was a little bit of discussion (mainly from me) on how much value big price recruits have really had in helping clubs win premierships in recent history.

Using the abritrary measure of top 3 B&F placings in premiership teams over the last 10 years below are the results. This metric was chosen because frankly it's easy and simple to gather information and secondly because while blokes who pull out cameos on grand final day are handy, the below are the players who were adjudged by their own club to have had the best full seasons in their respective premiership sides.

West Coast 2018
Elliot Yeo – medium cost trade
Jack Redden - medium cost trade
Shannon Hurn – 1st round (North pick L )

Richmond 2017
Dustin Martin – top 5
Alex Rance – 1st round
Kane Lambert - rookie

Bulldogs 2016
Bontompelli – top 5
Dale Morris - rookie
Lachie Hunter – father-son

Hawthorn 2015
Josh Gibson – medium cost trade
Cyril Rioli – 1st round
Sam Mitchell – 3rd round

Hawthorn 2014
Jordan Lewis – top 10
Grant Birchall – 1st round (North pick L )
Jarryd Roughead – top 5

Hawthorn 2013
Josh Gibson – medium cost trade
Jarryd Roughead – top 5
Sam Mitchell – 3rd round

Sydney 2012
Josh Kennedy – medium cost trade
Ryan O’Keefe – 4th round
Kieran Jack - rookie

Geelong 2011
Corey Enright – 3rd round
Joel Corey – top 10
Jimmy Bartel – top 10

Collingwood 2010
Dane Swan – late pick
Scott Pendlebury – top 5
Dale Thomas – top 5

Geelong 2009
Gary Ablett – father-son, Corey Enright –3rd round (North pick L )
Jimmy Bartel – top 10
Joel Selwood – top 10

Summary – how did top 3 B&F premiership players come to their club:
  1. Top 5 picks (x5)
  2. Top 10 picks (x5)
  3. Medium cost trades – eg 2nd rounder+ (x5)
  4. 1st round picks 11+ (x4)
  5. 3rd round picks (x4)
  6. Rookie (x3)
  7. Father-son (x2)
  8. 4th round picks (x1)

Observations:
  • No big name / big price / big money recruits in that group
  • Want to get to the big dance? Simple - gather talent via top 10 selections, preferably top 5 ones and round it out with medium cost trades for needs and some speculative later 1st round picks. Sound obvious but lets restate the 1st point – no high price recruit has been top 3 B&F in a premiership team in the last 10 years
  • If you want to a flutter at the draft then stock up on 3rd rounders
  • Last year after reviewing North picks vs career longevity over the years our 2nd round selections stood out as our weakest round. Interesting to note that none of the above were 2nd round picks suggesting maybe it’s a league wide phenomena?
No in Other words, Cunners JZ, LDU, better pull their finger out this year?
 
Back