Opinion List Breakdown

[MR]

Key Backs:
Alex Rance (Can play small)
Dylan Grimes (Can play small)
Troy Chaplin
Jake Batchelor (Can play small)
Ben Griffiths
David Astbury
Luke McGuane
Ben Darrou (R)

Backs:
Chris Newman (Potential move to midfield)
Steven Morris
Bachar Houli
Kamdyn McIntosh (Potential move to midfield)
Matt Dea
Steven Verrier (R)

Inside Midfielders:
Trent Cotchin (Outside capabilities)
Reece Conca (Defender)
Dustin Martin (Outside capabilities)
Nathan Foley
Shane Tuck
Nick Vlastuin (Defender)
Brad Helbig (Defender)
Matt Arnot
Cadeyn Williams (Outside capabilities) (R)
Sam Lonergan (R)

Outside Midfielders:
Brett Deledio (Inside capabilities)
Shaun Grigg
Brandon Ellis (Defender)
Matt White (Forward)

Forwards:
Shane Edwards
Robin Nahas
Chris Knights
Aaron Edwards
Ricky Petterd (R)
Matthew McDonough
Jake King
Brett O'Hanlon
Daniel Jackson (Midfielder)

Key Forwards:
Jack Riewoldt
Tyrone Vickery (Ruck)
Todd Elton
Ben Griffiths
David Astbury
Luke McGuane

Rucks:
Ivan Maric
Tom Derickx (KPP Capabilities)
Liam McBean (KPP Capabilities)
Orren Stephenson (R)

Core - 10 Players
Support - 12 Players
Immediate Depth - 12 Players
Developers - 10 Players


**Note - Underlined players are still subject to position change
-------------------------------------------------

Well, now that the list is done, it's time for some analysis.

The Positives:
Basically, we have 34 players who can all play a decent standard of senior football. That's pretty excellent depth. To put that into perspective, Collingwood only have 29 players capable of that.

Inside midfielders are absolutely booming. It comprises of two core players and four support. We can see that we are becoming increasingly stronger in this department and hopefully Conca and Vlastuin will become core players.

13 of the 22 support and core players are either in the backline or an inside midfielder. This is quite important as these are arguably the most important positions.

A very well balanced list. We have 22 players who are at least B-graders, (exception of King who is a support for structural purposes) 12 players who can come in if any get injured. Also half of those immediate depth have the potential to rise and become support or even core players.

Key defenders are well stocked with perfect balance of maturity and developers. Having two in each category shows a real strength in this area and potential to sustain this advantage too.

Our stock of medium forwards is absolutely huge. The most pleasing thing about it is the four immediate depth players. We will never take a damaging blow if any forwards go down with injuries, (Other than Titch.)

The Negatives:
The most glaring negative for me is our outside midfielders. Deledio, Grigg and Ellis are all guns. After them... White? There's not a single developer among them and the depth for the outsides is extremely poor.

Under a similar banner to outside midfielders but another glaring deficiency is pace. We have no player other than perhaps White who possesses pure pace. This is quite concerning and this needs to be addressed in the next off-season.

Ruck depth is pretty pathetic, even with the acquisition of Stephenson. Stephenson will probably retire next year, and Derickx may even be delisted if he has a similar season, which leaves us with only Maric and McBean. We need to target two 22-25 year old ruckmen, preferably with AFL experience, and keep them on the list for PROPER insurance.

In terms of our key forwards, if Vickery or Jack go down, we'll see repercussions similar to this year. Unfortunately, we don't have any support yet for Ty and Jack, and with Griffo in the backline, our best available forward is McGuane. This was partly addressed with Aaron Edwards, but I believe we need depth to replace a CHF, not a third tall.

 

[nastytiger]

Loving your work this off season

 

[Turka]

Loving your work this off season

Ditto M_R. Great summary, and huge early call on Lonergan.

 

[purrrrrrrrrrfect]

Under a similar banner to outside midfielders but another glaring deficiency is pace. We have no player other than perhaps White who possesses pure pace. This is quite concerning and this needs to be addressed in the next off-season.

umm, without researching time/speed trials etc (coz I cbf), reckon u could add Delidio as pure pace & woulda thought Foley/Morris are quick.. just a thought
EDIT: good work
EDIT: Nahas is another one that comes to mind

 

[nastytiger]

I agree our ruck stocks aren't that deep, same with our kpfs and kpbs.
but there is still a lot of untaped talent


Most of our mids can go inside/outside so I dont think im to fussed about them. Although a Jetta type would be nice, I dont think its a necesity

And im very happy with the small forwards we picked up, it makes it hard for king and White to get a game now

There is a lot to work with now, something we havent been able to say in a long time

 

[Tigersman]

Interesting call on our overall pace. Would you say there were any games last year where we were burnt by genuine pace or looked slow?

 

[Tiger68]

Ditto M_R. Great summary, and huge early call on Lonergan.

Ditto, I enjoyed and appreciated the early call on Lonergan. Tigs had a good hit rate as well.

In hindsight, given your comments about our lack of pace, might Jesse Lonergan (rather than Vlastuin) been a better fit for our midfield and would have some feel good family ties now.

I think It's too early to rate Vlastuin as a core inside mid, he will likely develop into that. I'd have him as a core back for 2012.

edit - I got the colour confused, you have Vlas a support inside mid.(Defender) I'm happier with that, but still might be a stretch to see him in midfield in 2012.

 

[_DBF_]

There's how we'd like it to happen and then there's how it will probably pan out. For me we have 26 blokes looking at a round one start.

B: D. Grimes, T. Chaplin, S. Morris
HB: J. Batchelor, A. Rance, B. Houli
C: B. Ellis, T. Cotchin, S. Grigg
HF: C. Newman, T. Vickery, B. Deledio
F: S. Edwards, J. Riewoldt, D. Martin
Foll: I. Maric, S. Tuck, N. Foley
Int (from): R. Conca, R. Nahas, D. Jackson, A. Edwards, B. Griffiths, N. Vlastuin, J. King & C. Knights.

27-33: M. Dea, B. O'Hanlon, R. Petterd, S. Lonergan, B. Helbig, D. Astbury & O. Stephenson.

34-37 : M. White, L. McGuane, T. Derickx & T. Elton.

The unknowns: M. Arnot, K. McIntosh, L. McBean, M. McDonough, B. Darrou, S. Verrier, C. Williams & G. Simon.

 

[_DBF_]

And it would be safe to assume Simon, Williams, and McBean ... and possibly McDonough? and McIntosh? will start at Coburgs reserves.

 

[THE_GUN]

Good Work MR.

You have highlighted a couple of areas's of real concern from my point of view and i have been harping on about it all throughout the draft/trade period and that is Pace and Rucks.

Whilst big o might be a great person and competitor - he really wasnt the correct choice for the Richmond football club only due to his age and what we needed. We kept Derickx on the list and recruited string bean, with where we are at in regards to development we really needed a Ruckman that was going to be ready in 2 years time whilst still being able to at least compete to a reasonable level if big X was not upto it. Hannath,Symonds would of been more suitable IMO.

Another player that is now totally useless and not needed at all and was a total mistake in keeping on the list is
Luke McGuane.

It has been tried and proven time & time again that he is totally incompetant in the backline,He only got his chance late last year and performed reasonably but nothing special ONLY against bad teams and was no good against better teams - It was probably decided to play him to gain some trade value but after our injuries was decided to leave on the list for another year.

With the trade/recruiting of Knights,Pettard,Edwards,Lonergan as well as another year into O'hanlon,Griffiths,Vickery and Astbury - that is 8 players who play the same position to Luke McGuane, I cant see what reason he would still be left on the list ??

Our list would be in a lot better position with Hannath/Symonds & Lowrie/Haynes/Cooke

 

[The Dice Man]

Think it's a little unfair to label Deledio as an outside midfielder. He's pretty strong inside and gets stronger every year. He is peaking now and over the next 2 to 3 seasons.

 

[LeatherPoison]

Pace & Outside Mids Issue ??? Cotchin/Ablett/Judd are the classic example of the way midfielders are going to be developed how to play ... all have a blend of Inside/Outside/Burst style of play ..

Cotch, Foley, Deledio, Martin, Conca, Ellis, Vlastuin all have this blend .. all have speed .. 20 mtr sprint times are not a true indication of speed, so please no one go digging up draft camp results

 

[SA TIGER]

Interesting call on our overall pace. Would you say there were any games last year where we were burnt by genuine pace or looked slow?

Same thing comes to mind!
I don't recall looking glaringly slow last season.

 

[theflea]

ball movement speed is also critical.

 

[bananatigz]

Next years draft is apparently full of quality outside mids, maybe why we seem stacked with inside at the moment

 

[The Goon]

Next years draft is apparently full of quality outside mids, maybe why we seem stacked with inside at the moment

Yeah, but with a first pick at # 18 we'll be lucky if a good one slips to us.

 

[nastytiger]

Yeah, but with a first pick at # 18 we'll be lucky if a good one slips to us.

I doubt we will have pick 18 that will be going to gws for tyson

 

[Stylo]

I doubt we will have pick 18 that will be going to gws for tyson

Along with Nahas

 

[Stylo]

Great summary MR.

At face value it does look pretty dire for outside mids but if you're talking mids capable of playing outside we'd have this list:

Deledio
Grigg
Ellis
White
Cotchin
Martin
Conca
Houli
Newman
McIntosh (eventually)

Many of those are better suited to other positions but are more than capable of playing outside roles as well. Not as dire as all IMO

 

[MR]

umm, without researching time/speed trials etc (coz I cbf), reckon u could add Delidio as pure pace & woulda thought Foley/Morris are quick.. just a thought
EDIT: good work
EDIT: Nahas is another one that comes to mind

Morris is quick, but his pace really isn't the feature to his game. He doesn't utilize it offensively very often and I think it needs to be worked on. Foley was a very pacey player, but he's lost that spark. I'd really like to make this clear, Nahas is not a fast footballer. He takes very small steps when running and it looks as though he is fast, but in reality he's just a quickish player.

Deledio is one who has excellent pace, but his strength lies more in his skill and decision making. I believe we need a player who can tear games apart simply with his pace. eg. Hill, Bennell etc

Interesting call on our overall pace. Would you say there were any games last year where we were burnt by genuine pace or looked slow?

I don't think we are a slow team, but we're not that quick either. We play a similar style of football to Hawthorn, but even they have Smith, Rioli and Bruest. I think we need a player who can break games apart with speed. The same way Martin can do marvelous things with his strength.

Think it's a little unfair to label Deledio as an outside midfielder. He's pretty strong inside and gets stronger every year. He is peaking now and over the next 2 to 3 seasons.

Deledio is an outside midfielder with inside capabilities. A very similar type to Pendlebury, but probably more athletic and able to play more positions. I have edited his name to include (Inside capabilities) but he is an outside player. The same way that Cotchin is inside but has an incredible outside game too.

Next years draft is apparently full of quality outside mids, maybe why we seem stacked with inside at the moment

It is and there are a few good runners too. However, there's a gun outside midfielder who may come to Tigerland next year for our first round pick, so we may not get a crack at the available talent.

 

[MR]

Great summary MR.

At face value it does look pretty dire for outside mids but if you're talking mids capable of playing outside we'd have this list:

Deledio
Grigg
Ellis
White
Cotchin
Martin
Conca
Houli
Newman
McIntosh (eventually)

Many of those are better suited to other positions but are more than capable of playing outside roles as well. Not as dire as all IMO

Of course you could put others in an outside position, but what would be the point? We need outside midfielder depth which consists of outside midfielders, not half-back flankers, or small forwards or inside midfielders with good skills. If Grigg was to get injured, we'd be robbing Peter to play Paul, it's an area that we lack good depth in.

 

[Stylo]

Of course you could put others in an outside position, but what would be the point? We need outside midfielder depth which consists of outside midfielders, not half-back flankers, or small forwards or inside midfielders with good skills. If Grigg was to get injured, we'd be robbing Peter to play Paul, it's an area that we lack good depth in.

Fair point, they're not pure outsiders. But the other thing is, with our recruitment of players like Vlas, Batchelor and McIntosh we're allowing Newman and Houli to move up the ground, I reckon outside mid is the ideal position for those two.

Deledio
Grigg
Houli
Newman
Ellis
White

All natural outsiders

 

[tigertaskforce]

Morris is quick, but his pace really isn't the feature to his game. He doesn't utilize it offensively very often and I think it needs to be worked on. Foley was a very pacey player, but he's lost that spark. I'd really like to make this clear, Nahas is not a fast footballer. He takes very small steps when running and it looks as though he is fast, but in reality he's just a quickish player.

Deledio is one who has excellent pace, but his strength lies more in his skill and decision making. I believe we need a player who can tear games apart simply with his pace. eg. Hill, Bennell etc



I don't think we are a slow team, but we're not that quick either. We play a similar style of football to Hawthorn, but even they have Smith, Rioli and Bruest. I think we need a player who can break games apart with speed. The same way Martin can do marvelous things with his strength.



Deledio is an outside midfielder with inside capabilities. A very similar type to Pendlebury, but probably more athletic and able to play more positions. I have edited his name to include (Inside capabilities) but he is an outside player. The same way that Cotchin is inside but has an incredible outside game too.



It is and there are a few good runners too. However, there's a gun outside midfielder who may come to Tigerland next year for our first round pick, so we may not get a crack at the available talent.

realise how silly this statment is ?

 

[freezer]

There's how we'd like it to happen and then there's how it will probably pan out. For me we have 26 blokes looking at a round one start.

B: D. Grimes, T. Chaplin, S. Morris
HB: J. Batchelor, A. Rance, B. Houli
C: B. Ellis, T. Cotchin, S. Grigg
HF: C. Newman, T. Vickery, B. Deledio
F: S. Edwards, J. Riewoldt, D. Martin
Foll: I. Maric, S. Tuck, N. Foley
Int (from): R. Conca, R. Nahas, D. Jackson, A. Edwards, B. Griffiths, N. Vlastuin, J. King & C. Knights.

27-33: M. Dea, B. O'Hanlon, R. Petterd, S. Lonergan, B. Helbig, D. Astbury & O. Stephenson.

34-37 : M. White, L. McGuane, T. Derickx & T. Elton.

The unknowns: M. Arnot, K. McIntosh, L. McBean, M. McDonough, B. Darrou, S. Verrier, C. Williams & G. Simon.

Like the starting 18.

If Knights, Conca, Griff, Knights, Petterd, A. Edwards step up and/or return to their best form, then there is gonna be some serious competition for the likes of Nahas, Jackson, King, Ellis, Batchelor, Edwards, even Newman.

Throw in progression from Astbury, O'Hanlon, Elton, Helbig, Dea, Derrickx. Also possible games for Vlastuin, McIntosh and McDonugh.

Then we have serious competiton for senior spots if everyone is fit. Gonna be a very competitive late pre season, NAB cup by the looks of things. Very good to see!

 

[MR]

realise how silly this statment is ?

If you have something to dispute, then by all means, say it. However, if all you're going to contribute is a meaningless statement like that, then it's best that you don't post at all.