Opinion List Breakdown

[tunksy]

I agree but I also think we'll be having a great year if he doesn't get a game at all. He's perfect to come in the side against the bottom 4 but to play him against any team of a higher standard always ends in tears. In saying that a pre season in the forward line might just be the tonic for it all to click for him. To give credit where credit is due his defensive pressure is awesome so he doesn't have to work on that like other players do.

agree he is definitely a forward. will do well at coburg this year if played forward all year i can see him kicking high 40-50. I actually hope he gets a few games in the seniors, certainly can work with him up forward.

 

[MR]

I think McGuane is very underrated on this board. He provides decent key forward depth and some clubs don't even have any good key forwards to begin with,
He kicked 15 goals from 9 games, which is a mighty effort.

That basically means if he had played 22 games he would have kicked 37 goals, which is more than Vickery's total in 2011. That's not to mention he was thrown down back in a few games.

 

[Riskingheadandshin]

I think McGuane is very underrated on this board. He provides decent key forward depth and some clubs don't even have any good key forwards to begin with,
He kicked 15 goals from 9 games, which is a mighty effort.

That basically means if he had played 22 games he would have kicked 37 goals, which is more than Vickery's total in 2011. That's not to mention he was thrown down back in a few games.

Wow. You owe the "big call" jar $1.
I share the same view of the vast majority in here and it's the opposite of yours M_R!

 

[theflea]

Wow. You owe the "big call" jar $1.
I share the same view of the vast majority in here and it's the opposite of yours M_R!

we should have a 'bigcall' thread.

 

[Heisenberg_]

we should have a 'bigcall' thread.

I'm actually thinking of something like that but hiding the thread at the start of the season and bring it back at seasons end, time capsule sort of thing.

 

[MR]

I'm actually thinking of something like that but hiding the thread at the start of the season and bring it back at seasons end, time capsule sort of thing.

No bumping old threads!!!!!

 

[The Goon]

I'm actually thinking of something like that but hiding the thread at the start of the season and bring it back at seasons end, time capsule sort of thing.

Make it happen ColeTrain

 

[Mr Magic]

I think McGuane is very underrated on this board. He provides decent key forward depth and some clubs don't even have any good key forwards to begin with,
He kicked 15 goals from 9 games, which is a mighty effort.

That basically means if he had played 22 games he would have kicked 37 goals, which is more than Vickery's total in 2011. That's not to mention he was thrown down back in a few games.

Couple of perspectives here, and you make plenty of good points.

McGuane could be underrated. However, what also could be happening is Vickery is overrated and players with hauls like Nahas for games played also could be overrated.

The pro-argument for TV might be he is still developing and his other string is the ruck.

So maybe McGuane is a little underrated, TV a little overrated and Nahas a little more overrated. This is how I see it atm anyway.

 

[razor8]

There's how we'd like it to happen and then there's how it will probably pan out. For me we have 26 blokes looking at a round one start.

B: D. Grimes, T. Chaplin, S. Morris
HB: J. Batchelor, A. Rance, B. Houli
C: B. Ellis, T. Cotchin, S. Grigg
HF: C. Newman, T. Vickery, B. Deledio
F: S. Edwards, J. Riewoldt, D. Martin
Foll: I. Maric, S. Tuck, N. Foley
Int (from): R. Conca, R. Nahas, D. Jackson, A. Edwards, B. Griffiths, N. Vlastuin, J. King & C. Knights.

27-33: M. Dea, B. O'Hanlon, R. Petterd, S. Lonergan, B. Helbig, D. Astbury & O. Stephenson.

34-37 : M. White, L. McGuane, T. Derickx & T. Elton.

The unknowns: M. Arnot, K. McIntosh, L. McBean, M. McDonough, B. Darrou, S. Verrier, C. Williams & G. Simon.

100 % agree.

 

[tunksy]

Couple of perspectives here, and you make plenty of good points.

McGuane could be underrated. However, what also could be happening is Vickery is overrated and players with hauls like Nahas for games played also could be overrated.

The pro-argument for TV might be he is still developing and his other string is the ruck.

So maybe McGuane is a little underrated, TV a little overrated and Nahas a little more overrated. This is how I see it atm anyway.

what? that makes bugger all sense. TV is not overrated on this board (about where his rating deserves to be actually (good year needing to be backed up)). nahas is not overrated on this board either. (hell a lot of posters wanted to trade him!).

 

[THE_GUN]

I think McGuane is very underrated on this board. He provides decent key forward depth and some clubs don't even have any good key forwards to begin with,
He kicked 15 goals from 9 games, which is a mighty effort.

That basically means if he had played 22 games he would have kicked 37 goals, which is more than Vickery's total in 2011. That's not to mention he was thrown down back in a few games.

WOW !!!
For a watcher of football & Talent - This comment from you is really a massive suprise, How exactly is McGuane under rated MR.

If you analise his games in 2012 which is pretty much his entire Foward career that we are talking about and the teams/backlines he kicked his goals against playing 2nd foward. Also have a look at the games he played against better opposition and the impact he had against them - I cant see how we have 'Underrated ' Mcguane

Also in 2013, Which players would / could you see him getting a game ahead of
Jack Riewoldt
Tyrone Vickery
Ben Griffiths
David Astbury
Todd Elton
Aaron Edwards
Ricky Petterd
Luke McGuane

I have him just in front of Tom derickx & Liam McBean in the position we are talking about here thats 8th on the list , so we would effectively need 5-6 major injuries to our Fowards for Mcguane to be utilised as depth.

 

[MR]

WOW !!!
For a watcher of football & Talent - This comment from you is really a massive suprise, How exactly is McGuane under rated MR.

If you analise his games in 2012 which is pretty much his entire Foward career that we are talking about and the teams/backlines he kicked his goals against playing 2nd foward. Also have a look at the games he played against better opposition and the impact he had against them - I cant see how we have 'Underrated ' Mcguane

Also in 2013, Which players would / could you see him getting a game ahead of
Jack Riewoldt
Tyrone Vickery
Ben Griffiths
David Astbury
Todd Elton
Aaron Edwards
Ricky Petterd
Luke McGuane

I have him just in front of Tom derickx & Liam McBean in the position we are talking about here thats 8th on the list , so we would effectively need 5-6 major injuries to our Fowards for Mcguane to be utilised as depth.

All that we could have asked from McGuane when he was called up was that he could make a contest. We tried Elton first in round 14 against Adelaide, but he failed miserably, and so in round 15, we basically needed anything, and we were forced to rely upon McGuane. I must ask you, what did you expect from Luke? To kick 30 goals in his 9 games and be the savior to put our team into finals? We really needed him to just take a defender away from Jack so that he wouldn't be double-teamed all the time. Instead, McGuane actually played his roll decently. As I mentioned before, had he kept his average and played 22 games, he would have kicked 37 goals. Furthermore, he laid 31 tackles, and took some really good contested marks. He was also relied upon in pivotal moments in games to go back and help the defenders and even pinch-hit in the ruck too.

Look, I am not saying that he is best 22 or anything, I simply stated that he was extremely underrated. Many posters here want him delisted, and for what reason? So we can rely on Elton to have a string of 4-possession games? Luke gives us decent back-up and he actually can provide some really good offensive work too. Not to mention that this is the first time ever that he's been a forward at Richmond. Most teams don't even have a decent KPF, we are fortunate that we have a player who can go forward and play his role when someone goes down. I think he has earned the trust of the playing group and coaches through his performances this year.

To answer your question, I think Griffiths will get games ahead of him in the backline, and whether or not we want development or not, McGuane would be behind Vickery in terms of key-forwards. Again, Elton provided a massive nothing to our team against Adelaide, we have only seen Astbury as a forward in two games this year, and a few games in his first season too. We haven't even seen Edwards or Petterd play a game for us yet, so it's hardly fair to automatically put them ahead of McGuane either.

 

[THE_GUN]

MR - McGuane kicked his goals against weak opposition and manager nothing against decent team like roo's & freo
To believe that he could kick nearly 40 goals a season is totally delusional

Astbury in his 1st season when playing foward was a massive upgrade on McGuane and proved he was extremely versatile and capable of kicking goals until he was moved down back , so i would still with chaplin in the team have astbury well ahead of luke mcguane

Again with Chaplin, Grimes,Rance as kpd with Batchelor & Even McIntosh on the list Griffiths will be more utilised up foward before Luke gets a shot.

Elton , You are being extremely unfair when you mention Todd Eltons games of last year whe talking about 2013. Todd played against adelaide and in a game where he copped a hit where i think he was dazed or knocked out or something (didnt watch that game) He will be a lot more dangerous this year.

Both Pettars & A.Edwards are automaticaly ahead of McGuane

McGuane offers us nothing except comedy clips and to even believe that he has any value to Richmond 2013 apart from filling up numbers if we have 25 injuries is just delusional, he would be on par with our new recruits that are not physicaly ready for AFL.

8 years of watching this dud run around is well & truly enough for me.

 

[TJTIGER]

No bumping old threads!!!!!

Is bumping and hiding the same thing M_R ??

P.S For the record I agree with your comments about L. Mc I'd like to see him get at least another 7 games before he finishes at the club.

 

[Wallaby]

MR - McGuane kicked his goals against weak opposition and manager nothing against decent team like roo's & freo
To believe that he could kick nearly 40 goals a season is totally delusional

Astbury in his 1st season when playing foward was a massive upgrade on McGuane and proved he was extremely versatile and capable of kicking goals until he was moved down back , so i would still with chaplin in the team have astbury well ahead of luke mcguane

Sorry. Don't accept that. Astbury looked OK in his first game (3 goals against Melbourne, who were crap then) and the next few games he struggled - didn't kick a goal. He kicked 2 more in his remaing 15 games - hardly 'capable of kicking goals'. When down back he played loose man in defence and was certainly nowhere near as good as McGuane in 2010. Then in 2011, he was almost comically poor. Really, really bad. He then did his knee, came back at the end 2012, and hardly got near it.

Astbury has a long way to go before he is at McGuane's level. Hopefully, he will pass that. But at the moment, McGuane is a far better contributor to the team. Mcguane is a very handy player, and tends to do his job as required. He's hardly worse than LRT at ther Swans.

 

[THE_GUN]

Sorry. Don't accept that. Astbury looked OK in his first game (3 goals against Melbourne, who were crap then) and the next few games he struggled - didn't kick a goal. He kicked 2 more in his remaing 15 games - hardly 'capable of kicking goals'. When down back he played loose man in defence and was certainly nowhere near as good as McGuane in 2010. Then in 2011, he was almost comically poor. Really, really bad. He then did his knee, came back at the end 2012, and hardly got near it.

Astbury has a long way to go before he is at McGuane's level. Hopefully, he will pass that. But at the moment, McGuane is a far better contributor to the team. Mcguane is a very handy player, and tends to do his job as required. He's hardly worse than LRT at ther Swans.

So your saying he was given #12 off 1 game ?????

 

[MR]

So your saying he was given #12 off 1 game ?????

I hardly think that a guernsey number is relevant in whether he is better depth than McGuane currently.

In my opinion, McGuane provides better output than most of our forwards. We all want Griffiths, Astbury and Elton to overtake him, but until they do, McGuane should be kept on the list because he is good back-up.

 

[THE_GUN]

I hardly think that a guernsey number is relevant in whether he is better depth than McGuane currently.

In my opinion, McGuane provides better output than most of our forwards. We all want Griffiths, Astbury and Elton to overtake him, but until they do, McGuane should be kept on the list because he is good back-up.

Sorry cant agree - when you say better output kicking goals against weak teams is not a plus in my book !
he provides nothing of value when needed under pressure or against better teams gets found out and guess what we can beat the crap teams without him and he add 0 against quality opposition.

He wont get a game if we are to suceed, if he has played 5 games this year that means we are having a shocker

 

[Wallaby]

So your saying he was given #12 off 1 game ?????

He was given #12 because it was available. Given that previous wearers of #12 are too mature to believe that any particular number is really anything significant (bar #17), I don't see a problem. It's just a number for the footy record.

And since our greatest ever #12 (Jack Titus) is now dead, I don't think he's going to complain much.

 

[El Tigre]

WOW !!!
For a watcher of football & Talent - This comment from you is really a massive suprise, How exactly is McGuane under rated MR.

If you analise his games in 2012 which is pretty much his entire Foward career that we are talking about and the teams/backlines he kicked his goals against playing 2nd foward. Also have a look at the games he played against better opposition and the impact he had against them - I cant see how we have 'Underrated ' Mcguane

Also in 2013, Which players would / could you see him getting a game ahead of
Jack Riewoldt
Tyrone Vickery
Ben Griffiths
David Astbury
Todd Elton
Aaron Edwards
Ricky Petterd
Luke McGuane

I have him just in front of Tom derickx & Liam McBean in the position we are talking about here thats 8th on the list , so we would effectively need 5-6 major injuries to our Fowards for Mcguane to be utilised as depth.

Don't agree with Astbury, and Elton being ahead of Luke ATM. Those 2 need more development time. Both should overtake in a year or so.
Petterd is Rookie listed, so unless he gets one of the upgrades, then McGuane by being on the main list, is ahead. And going by you list, you seem to be including the talls, which Petterd is not.
Edwards will play a different role, and get higher up the ground. Its highly unlikely they'll ask him to play a defensive foward position.
You forgot Hanlon.
McGuane has been used in the ruck from boundary throw-ins and stoppages. Its clearly not his position, but i'd suspect hes better at it than Grif, Astbury and the rest.

So me in order is
Jack
Vicks
Benny
Lukey
Astbury
Elton and Hanlon

With Grimes looking like spending more time on the side-lines, i can see Benny being in the back line, along with Rance and Chappy.
So if the Tiges want to win games from the start (which i reckon they will), i reckon Lukey will make the first 22.
Forward line of Jack, TV, McGuane, Edwards + 2 rotating mids is my prediction. I reserve the right to change my opinion

 

[Tiger68]

Agree, McGuanne really surprised me late last year. He looked to be our most dangerous forward in a couple of games. On recent form only Jack would be in front of Luke. Sure, decision making is sometimes a problem but less so up forward. He hits packs with aggression, is an experienced AFL competitor, can take a great high mark, is fast, is agile for his size, does not get stage fright kicking at the big sticks. I'd like to see him given 1st opportunity in the NAB cup, others need to prove they have developed enough to take his spot.

Edit: He wasn't gifted games either, he was selected on the back of successive goal hauls at Coburg, then backed it up with good AFL form to finish the season. None of Griff, Astubry, Elton, O'hanlon have runs on the board like this as a forward. More potential maybe, but lets see it first.

 

[rammbo]

Also in 2013, Which players would / could you see him getting a game ahead of
Jack Riewoldt
Tyrone Vickery
Ben Griffiths
David Astbury
Todd Elton
Aaron Edwards
Ricky Petterd
Luke McGuane


Jack -n/a

Vicks -Azza could hav been here

Azza - can see him playing all matches

Mcquane- re tiger68

Griff -may step up as a forward and overtake Mcquane

Elton-may suprise

Pettard -hopefull

Astbury

 

[Stylo]

1. Daniel Jackson; Work hard, but lacks the skills, poise, decision-making, speed (both physcially and mentally) and discipline to make it AFL level and to help us win a flag.
2. Luke Mcguane; Like Jacko he has a go, but ultimately he just lacks the necessary football smarts, ball skills and composure. He won't win us a flag so he has to go.
3. Tom Derycx; Looked hopelessly lost and out of depth in his two games this year, and he probably cost us the game against Gold Coast with that dropped chest mark which led to Harbrow's goal. Like Graham, Tom is okay at getting hitouts, but he is useless around the ground and up forward. As a result, he is to remain in the VFL and be delisted immediately at the conclusion of Season 2013.
4. David Astbury; Was given Richo's number and I have no idea why. He drops marks, at times he looks lost, you can hardly tell he is on the ground. He goes a full game without getting more that 6 touches, simply not good enough at this level. Up forward he doesn't work hard enough to get the ball and down back he never really takes the gun forward. I will give credit where creidt is due, his skills for a big man are amazing, but he is just not involved enough.
5. Orren Stephenson; Looked out of his depth at AFL level and when he played Geelong hardly won a match. A VFL star, but nothing more. Not a bad pick this year though considering our lack of ruck depth, but move him on at the end of next year.
6. Matt Dea; Built like a tank, but his decision-making is too slow and he is not skillful enough to compensate for his slow decision-making. He also fumbles the ball under pressure and costs goals. Not tall enough to play on the big guys and not fast or agile enough to paly on the Milne's and Stevie J's of the game.
7. Alex Rance; I know I may get some hate for this, but ask yourselves this; 'Will this man win us a flag?' Because if he won't, what is he doing on the list? He reminds me so much of Schoenmakers and seeing Schoenmakers cost Hawthorn the 2011 Prelim reminded me of what Rance would be like in the finals. Like Schoey, Cale Hooker and Zac Dawson, Rance lacks the compsoure, football smarts, decision-making and posie needed to succeed at this level. Like those other defenders, Rance may play some okay games in home and away season, but pressure him and he will cough the ball up, and this has been proven time again. And in finals, you are under constant pressure. If you need further proof, re-watch both Carlton games, both Fremantle games and the Collingwood game. Rance also struggles to go body on body with guys like Pavlich and Franklin and he also lacks the pace and smarts to beat guys like that at ground level.
8. Reece Conca; Too harsh? Nah I don't think so. Conca reminds me too much of Daniel Jackson. He doesn't have great skills and turns it over too much as a result, he isn't very fast, his decision-making isn't great and worst of all he gives away stupid, undisciplined free kicks like Daniel Jackson. Watch the last quarter of the st.kilda game. We have the ball in defence, Conca hits saad behind play, Saints get a free kick and get a goal. Sounds like Dan Jackson to me, and you may be like 'yeah well conca is younger.' Yes he is, but Dimma said this in a press conference when he first took over as coach and I have never forgotten it; "If you can't kick when you're you never can." So by Dimma's logic Conca is unskilful, it is clear that he is undisciplined, like Jacko he goes hard, but he lacks the necessary to win us a flag.

All opinions, replies and discussions are welcome.

[/quote]

Obvious troll is obvious. I question how much you've watched Richmond play. So much of this is just wrong

 

[THE_GUN]

He was given #12 because it was available. Given that previous wearers of #12 are too mature to believe that any particular number is really anything significant (bar #17), I don't see a problem. It's just a number for the footy record.

And since our greatest ever #12 (Jack Titus) is now dead, I don't think he's going to complain much.

Thats crap !! He was given the #12 before any other player was given a number upgrade and after Dimma come out and said they will earn their numbers - The Kid is very very highly rated and rightfully so. When he first made his debut for the tigers against coburg at cragiburn you could tell this kid is a footballer.
"Richo himself having a say in who gets to wear the number [makes it] a real honour,"

Unfortunately too many people watch football on tv and not live games or practice reserve games, To even compare his talent to a useless spud like McGuane is an insult 8 years of pathetic stuff ups and bad decisions yet people here rate him as a player - we have been trying to off load this spud for 3 years now - guess what NO TAKERS


Luke Mcguane playes the medium - Tall Foward due to his size is just not big or strong enough(size) to be the focul Foward, All of the following will be considered ahead of McGuane - Other wise why would the club recruit them. If a game was to be played with my life on the line i would have all of the following play before Clumsy - Goofy Luke McGuane
Pettard (plays tall)
Edwards (plays Tall)
Griffiths(genuine tall)
Astbury (genuine tall)
Vickery(genuine tall)
Riewoldt (genuine tall)

I really cant believe some people who post some of the stuff they do , actually go and watch LIVE games
Even Brett Thornton is a massive upgrade to this spud

 

[Mr Magic]

Key Backs:
Alex Rance (Can play small)
Dylan Grimes (Can play small)
Troy Chaplin
Jake Batchelor (Can play small)
Ben Griffiths
David Astbury
Luke McGuane
Ben Darrou (R)

Backs:
Chris Newman (Potential move to midfield)
Steven Morris
Bachar Houli
Kamdyn McIntosh (Potential outside Mid)
Matt Dea
Steven Verrier (R)

Inside Midfielders:
Trent Cotchin (Outside capabilities)
Reece Conca (Defender)
Dustin Martin (Outside capabilities)
Nathan Foley
Shane Tuck
Nick Vlastuin (Defender)
Brad Helbig (Defender/Forward)
Matt Arnot
Cadeyn Williams (Outside capabilities) (R)
Sam Lonergan (R)

Outside Midfielders:
Brett Deledio
Shaun Grigg
Brandon Ellis (Defender)
Matt White (Forward)

Forwards:
Shane Edwards
Robin Nahas
Chris Knights
Aaron Edwards
Ricky Petterd (R)
Matthew McDonough
Jake King
Brett O'Hanlon
Daniel Jackson (Midfielder)

Key Forwards:
Jack Riewoldt
Tyrone Vickery (Ruck)
Todd Elton (Ruck)
Ben Griffiths
David Astbury
Luke McGuane

Rucks:
Ivan Maric
Tom Derickx
Liam McBean (KPP Capabilities)
Orren Stephenson (R)

Core - 13 Players
Support - 8 Players
Immediate Depth - 6 Players
Developers - 10 Players
Delist - 8 Players


**Note - Underlined players are still subject to position change
-------------------------------------------------

Detailed Analysis;

The Positives:
Depth has improved, especially in regard to inside midfielders. Versatility is noticeable too, as we have quite a few defenders who can push up onto the wing. The addition of players such as knights, lonergan, vlaustin etc, will make it difficult for guys like Daniel Jackson to get games. Quite a few of our midfielders can go forward, i.e Cotchin, Deledio, Martin etc and quite a few can play inside midfield and outside midfield which is important.

The list is more balanced than before and it contains more than just quality midfielders. Free agency was a good time for us and it allowed us to draft players who can help fill a role or position which we lacked last year.

Key defenders are coming along well, but we still lack that monster backman (like a Merrett or Frawley), who can compete with and play on the strongest forwards in the game (Such as Cloke and Dawes).

Our stock of medium forwards is absolutely huge. The most pleasing thing about it is the four immediate depth players. We will never take a damaging blow if any forwards go down with injuries, (Other than Titch.)

The Negatives:
Something we lack; Pace, pace and more pace. Matt White is our fastest players and he wins all our time trials. He is fast, but besides him no one else stands out. We need to draft someone with rich pace, who can break the lines.I am not a huge fan of Matt White, but maybe we should play him as the sub like Essendon do with NLM. He can come on late when everyone is tired and be a potential match winner with his pace. Perhaps we could also try playing Nahas off the half back line, as Nahas can run. Dayle Garlett may have helped, but after the whole Dan Connors scenario this year, drafting him always seemed unlikely.

Ruck depth is still virtually non-existent, even with the acquisition of Stephenson. Stephenson only has at most 3 seasons left in him and Derycx isn't up to it IMO. Liam Mcbean looks like a good prospecf, but he will take at least 3 years to develop.

In terms of our key forwards, we only have two or three. Riewoldt is the full forward, while Vickery is also good playing close to goal. Vickery in the forward pocket along side Jack works well. What we lack is that fast, tall and agile Centre Half Forward, who can push up and create space for Jack. Nick Riewoldt would fit this perfectly, but obviously he won't come to Richmond, however that type of player is what we need. Todd Elton could potentially be this player, but he is still young.

Lastly, we still have around 8 players who I think need to go. I will start with the obvious one's and work my way down explaining my reasoning. I respect all opinions and welcome all feedback, but here is what I think;

1. Daniel Jackson; Work hard, but lacks the skills, poise, decision-making, speed (both physcially and mentally) and discipline to make it AFL level and to help us win a flag.
2. Luke Mcguane; Like Jacko he has a go, but ultimately he just lacks the necessary football smarts, ball skills and composure. He won't win us a flag so he has to go.
3. Tom Derycx; Looked hopelessly lost and out of depth in his two games this year, and he probably cost us the game against Gold Coast with that dropped chest mark which led to Harbrow's goal. Like Graham, Tom is okay at getting hitouts, but he is useless around the ground and up forward. As a result, he is to remain in the VFL and be delisted immediately at the conclusion of Season 2013.
4. David Astbury; Was given Richo's number and I have no idea why. He drops marks, at times he looks lost, you can hardly tell he is on the ground. He goes a full game without getting more that 6 touches, simply not good enough at this level. Up forward he doesn't work hard enough to get the ball and down back he never really takes the gun forward. I will give credit where creidt is due, his skills for a big man are amazing, but he is just not involved enough.
5. Orren Stephenson; Looked out of his depth at AFL level and when he played Geelong hardly won a match. A VFL star, but nothing more. Not a bad pick this year though considering our lack of ruck depth, but move him on at the end of next year.
6. Matt Dea; Built like a tank, but his decision-making is too slow and he is not skillful enough to compensate for his slow decision-making. He also fumbles the ball under pressure and costs goals. Not tall enough to play on the big guys and not fast or agile enough to paly on the Milne's and Stevie J's of the game.
7. Alex Rance; I know I may get some hate for this, but ask yourselves this; 'Will this man win us a flag?' Because if he won't, what is he doing on the list? He reminds me so much of Schoenmakers and seeing Schoenmakers cost Hawthorn the 2011 Prelim reminded me of what Rance would be like in the finals. Like Schoey, Cale Hooker and Zac Dawson, Rance lacks the compsoure, football smarts, decision-making and posie needed to succeed at this level. Like those other defenders, Rance may play some okay games in home and away season, but pressure him and he will cough the ball up, and this has been proven time again. And in finals, you are under constant pressure. If you need further proof, re-watch both Carlton games, both Fremantle games and the Collingwood game. Rance also struggles to go body on body with guys like Pavlich and Franklin and he also lacks the pace and smarts to beat guys like that at ground level.
8. Reece Conca; Too harsh? Nah I don't think so. Conca reminds me too much of Daniel Jackson. He doesn't have great skills and turns it over too much as a result, he isn't very fast, his decision-making isn't great and worst of all he gives away stupid, undisciplined free kicks like Daniel Jackson. Watch the last quarter of the st.kilda game. We have the ball in defence, Conca hits saad behind play, Saints get a free kick and get a goal. Sounds like Dan Jackson to me, and you may be like 'yeah well conca is younger.' Yes he is, but Dimma said this in a press conference when he first took over as coach and I have never forgotten it; "If you can't kick when you're you never can." So by Dimma's logic Conca is unskilful, it is clear that he is undisciplined, like Jacko he goes hard, but he lacks the necessary to win us a flag.

All opinions, replies and discussions are welcome.

[/quote]

Have to agree with another poster.Possible troll post and this is from Mr Magic previously accused as a troll and still so by some

I think this post is possibly more troll than Santa, but I am not accusing you of being a troll, rather the content appears too negative and too unrealistic to be perceived as genuine and fair let alone positive.

For example, Conca has pace, he was recruited as he had pace, to say he lacks pace is just factually incorrect.. You say we lack pace and forget about Lids.\??

Then you have a dig at Rance after the year he had