List Mgmt. List build for 2023 & beyond.

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Doashuey

Club Legend
Sep 13, 2017
2,893
5,899
AFL Club
West Coast
Title- List build for 2023 and Beyond.

So why sell good young talent ( I suspect Brander and Petro will be very valuable by 2023) and a whole heap of $s for Cripps who will be near retirement by 2023? Makes 0 sense.

I do like the first trade but. I think we need to move on from Gaffy but weather for a good midfielder or a latish first rounder. Heading to the 2021 draft with 2 x 1 Rd and 2 x 2 Rd picks could really set us up if we select right. Not to mention the salary cap relief we would get- we will need a fair chunk of that to re- sign the likes of Allen and Ryan.
 

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Chris_6678

Brownlow Medallist
Oct 29, 2007
18,773
22,825
Perth Western Australia
AFL Club
West Coast
Now we can watch the VFL on Kayo.

I will be watching Sharp to see if he is decent.

We need a Wingman badly with Gaff not getting any younger.

Some stats from his first 2 games without having watched a game:

Round 1: - 23 disposals 9 marks 15 kicks 8 handballs

Round 2: 21 disposals 1 goal 2 7 marks.
 

Get_The_Gaff

Senior List
Apr 4, 2021
190
429
AFL Club
West Coast
Gaff is suffering from us not winning the inside ball .

All our issues stem from not winning contested ball inside and winning ground balls .

Forward - lacking enough supply from midfielders not generating meaningful amounts of inside 50s

Defenders - getting pummelled from lack of midfield pressure and repeat inside 50s

Outside mids / wingers - are doing nothing but burning petrol tickets running defensively. Then get out numbered when opposition HFF push up but our defenders stay back and structure up
 

Get_The_Gaff

Senior List
Apr 4, 2021
190
429
AFL Club
West Coast
Now we can watch the VFL on Kayo.

I will be watching Sharp to see if he is decent.

We need a Wingman badly with Gaff not getting any younger.

Some stats from his first 2 games without having watched a game:

Round 1: - 23 disposals 9 marks 15 kicks 8 handballs

Round 2: 21 disposals 1 goal 2 7 marks.
Tackles ?
 

Monocle

Norm Smith Medallist
Sep 18, 2003
8,438
19,829
Western Suburbs : Perth
AFL Club
West Coast
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Why i thought they traded a mid future 1st to get him only 18 months ago ?
Is it because he is too outside? Or off field issues ?
Well their midfielders and midfield depth is rather stacked, so it’s not as if he is being kept out of the side by spuds 🥔.

He is also as you mentioned - he very outside and in a team like ours that’s critically short of inside mids, someone with Sharps skill set, is only going to blossom, IF, the team has the inside extractors to get the ball into his hands.

I think he is extremely skill full players that has some real tricks, but he does limit his “selectability” ( making up words as I go 😛 ) by not having even a semblance of an inside game.

He is a work in progress and would be an ok get, BUT I would be reluctant to spend a second rounder on him until we get our inside mids sorted.

Sometimes players are just by bad luck or a twist of fate, drafted to a Club that by virtue of the other on its list, offer very limited opportunities to certain players.

I think Sharp and the Gold Coast Suns is one of those situations.

He is icing, not cake.
 
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Chris_6678

Brownlow Medallist
Oct 29, 2007
18,773
22,825
Perth Western Australia
AFL Club
West Coast
Gaff is suffering from us not winning the inside ball .

All our issues stem from not winning contested ball inside and winning ground balls .

Forward - lacking enough supply from midfielders not generating meaningful amounts of inside 50s

Defenders - getting pummelled from lack of midfield pressure and repeat inside 50s

Outside mids / wingers - are doing nothing but burning petrol tickets running defensively. Then get out numbered when opposition HFF push up but our defenders stay back and structure up
On Gaff. I think he unfairly cops it when he plays inside, seriously not sure why that is our go to? Sheed/Redden/Kelly should be stepping it up and getting dirty in there and not Gaff. Hell Xon should be getting in there over gaff.
 

Get_The_Gaff

Senior List
Apr 4, 2021
190
429
AFL Club
West Coast
Well their midfielders and midfield depth is rather stacked, so it’s not as if he is being kept out of the side by spuds 🥔.

He is also as you mentioned - he very outside and in a team like ours that’s critically short of inside mids, someone with Sharps skill set, is only going to blossom, IF, the team has the inside extractors to get the ball into his hands.

I think he is extremely skill full players that has some real tricks, but he does limit his “selectability” ( making up words as I go 😛 ) by not having even a semblance of an inside game.

He is a work in progress and would be an ok get, BUT I would be reluctant to spend a second rounder on him until we get our inside mids sorted.

Sometimes players are just by bad luck or a twist of fate, drafted to a Club that by virtue of the other on its list, offer very limited opportunities to certain players.

I think Sharp and the Gold Coast Suns is one of those situations.

He is icing, not cake.
If he has talent even as an outside player we should be into him .

Who was our last attacking wing ? Probably Embley

Who do we use atm ?

Sheed who is slow as treacle but very good ball in hand

Gaff who is more of the defensive running mid currently playing an inside role

Brander who is not a winger

Waterman who is a 3rd tall forward

I think we should also be trying to lure fiorini. Maybe a 2nd rounder for the 2 ?
 

Monocle

Norm Smith Medallist
Sep 18, 2003
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Western Suburbs : Perth
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If he has talent even as an outside player we should be into him .

Who was our last attacking wing ? Probably Embley

Who do we use atm ?

Sheed who is slow as treacle but very good ball in hand

Gaff who is more of the defensive running mid currently playing an inside role

Brander who is not a winger

Waterman who is a 3rd tall forward

I think we should also be trying to lure fiorini. Maybe a 2nd rounder for the 2 ?
I know Fiorini personally and if he leaves Gold Coast I would be super surprised if he went to another Club that wasn’t in Melbourne.

Not against Sharp as a player but ( as has been well debated all this week post the capitulation against The Dick Eaters ) we need to draft, first and foremost, player who can improve our contested ball shortcomings.

At this point in time I would see inside mids as the priority.
Now if we were to pick up a couple of inside mids with two of our first three picks - then ok with taking a skilled outside mid after that.
 

Doashuey

Club Legend
Sep 13, 2017
2,893
5,899
AFL Club
West Coast
I like Gaff and happy if we keep him but...
It isnt so much how much he gets it these days but his use of it. He is in a very bad habit of trying to hack snap everything. Fair enough if you are under pressure and need to just get it forward, but he is using this 80% of the time. Against the Pies, me and a mate where lamenting his hack snaps when he wins the ball several meters behind the pack, facing straight up the ground and he TURNS SIDEWAYS and hack snaps the bloody thing. There was simply no rational reason way you would turn sideways when you have time and facing the right direction. It is a bad habit and is making him a much less impactful player.

Secondly, he is getting paid overs for what is produced. As good a winger as he can be, paying 800-900k (from available info) for a winger who is getting on a bit and still has many years to run on his contract, is not good not value for money. In fact in a couple of years it could be a real liability. If we don't have a big turn around this year and make at least Prelims, you would think with the age of our list and retirements that we will need a mini-rebuild to contend again in a few years time. Dumping Gaffs salary and getting a very promising 21-23 year old mid or a 1st round mid in the 2021 draft is a great way to kick start that. I think he is really the only big trade bait we have that will get us something significant whilst freeing up space in the cap for negotiating some good deals to retain some of our young stars who will lead our next tilt at it.
 

Dale Doback

Senior List
Aug 6, 2018
211
453
Perth
AFL Club
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I think most of the people who are reacting to this this thread are missing the point. Who's long term contracted beyond 2022 vs players yet to sign for next year. We just locked away Ryan and Sheed, which is great.


How much is it going to cost us to resign Allen, Barrass and Sheppard?

Which is why I mentioned trading Gaff and Waterman. If Brander stays he takes Waterman's natural 3rd tall role. You can't pay both, so the money stays with Brander.

If we can trade Gaff back to Melbourne for Rivers and a late first round pick our way, then we're miles in front, cap and future
 
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Wedgetailed Westerner

Club Legend
Oct 17, 2018
1,226
2,022
AFL Club
West Coast
Monocle wasn't there a suggestion last year that Sharp was home sick and wanted to come home? If that's the case I would say he wouldn't cost ask much in currency. I hope there is some truth to it.
I'd be focusing on Garcia too. He will be waiting for the length of the Flemington straight to get a gig in that midfield. Also if we can get Matt Nunn in the mid season draft there is some inside grunt now to work with.

I want Johnson with our first this year but would love to get a second first rounder to snag Erasmus. Think this kid will be someone special
 

WCE_phil

Norm Smith Medallist
Nov 14, 2009
9,705
8,744
perth
AFL Club
West Coast
With the rule changes we need two things as well as maintaining our elite kicking.

1. Inside grunt to lock the ball in, tackle and even if it's dirty clearances into 50 we need more inside 50's.
2. Run and carry with speed. We have ******* none of it.

sh*t if Jetta is still fully fit i'd happily mid season retire hutchings, venables onto the lti. Draft Matthew Nunn out of the SANFL and resign Jetta. Nunn could spend years with us and Jetta could very well be a missing link for us in the second half of the year. Nelson plays as a tagger, whether thats at hf or in the midfield I don't care, we need to shut down the oppositions most offensive threat. Sheppard and Rotham play purely as defensive players. Jetta provides run and carry from defence as well as the best execution of goal creating footskills in the league. Hurn and Witherden play with a bit more freedom and focus on providing kicking.

If we can't get the ball out of the initial clearance all the time we need to improve how we get it forward. If we can't connect our HBF to HF atm through midfielders, then the 3 kicking players provided with Jetta's run would get us the 30-40 metres further up the ground that rather than kicking the the wing or high half forward, we're at least making those long kicks to HF on the boundary or to inside 50 contests.
 

ziad

Brownlow Medallist
May 2, 2009
16,913
9,668
Sydney
AFL Club
West Coast
On Gaff. I think he unfairly cops it when he plays inside, seriously not sure why that is our go to? Sheed/Redden/Kelly should be stepping it up and getting dirty in there and not Gaff. Hell Xon should be getting in there over gaff.
The reality is that Sheed isnt an inside and while Kelly can he is far more valuable outside. XON is not built for it nor good enough. That leaves Redden who needs help while we have major injury outs. Thus Gaff has to as he is tough but not strong. In a perfect world we would have Yoe, Redden, Rioli and Venables inside with Shuey backing up.
 

kranky al

Premium Platinum
Jun 30, 2009
22,578
29,686
Greenough
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West Coast
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east perth www.pixelpac.com.au
Now we can watch the VFL on Kayo.

I will be watching Sharp to see if he is decent.

We need a Wingman badly with Gaff not getting any younger.

Some stats from his first 2 games without having watched a game:

Round 1: - 23 disposals 9 marks 15 kicks 8 handballs

Round 2: 21 disposals 1 goal 2 7 marks.
Weve been watching the vfl on kayo since kayo started

Its just that gullible folk think its called the afl
 

Dale Doback

Senior List
Aug 6, 2018
211
453
Perth
AFL Club
West Coast
Other Teams
Miami Heat
UPDATED. Ryan and Sheed locked away on at least 2 year deals.

2022 season Contracted players
Age in calendar year 2022, oldest first, contract expiry year

Forwards
Cripps (30, 2023 UFA)
Darling (30, 2025 UFA)
Langden (27, 2023)
Rioli (27, Expiring)
Ryan (26, 2024???)
Waterman (24, 2023)
Petrucelle (23, 2023)
Allen (23, Expiring)
Cameron (22, Expiring)

Midfielders
Naitanui (32, Expiring UFA)
Shuey (32, Expiring UFA)
Gaff (30, 2024)
Yeo (29, 2023 RFA)
Kelly (28, 2025)
Sheed (27, (2024???)
Williams (22, Expiring)
Winder (20, Expiring)

Defenders
McGovern (30, 2023)
Barrass (27, Expiring RFA)
Cole (25, Expiring)
H Edwards (22, Expiring)
L Edwards (20 Expiring)
Sheppard (30, Expiring UFA)
Witherden (24, Expiring)

2021 season - Players on expiring contracts
Age in calendar year 2022

The 8 Players I’d Re-sign, oldest first
Re-sign
Hurn (35) Offer a 1 year deal
Redden (32) Offer a 1 year deal for 2022
Duggan (26) Offer a 3 year deal
Rotham (24) Offer a 3 year deal
Brander (23) Offer a 3 year deal
Jameison (22) Offer a 2 year minimum deal
O’Neill (22) Offer a 2 year minimum deal
Trew (20) Offer a 2 year minimum deal, upgrade to main list

Delist
Kennedy (35) Retire
Hutchings (31) Retire/Delist
Vardy (31) Delist
Ah Chee (29) Delist
Nelson (26) Delist/Trade
Jones (24) Delist
Venables (24) Delist
Ainsworth (24) Delist
Foley (23) Delist
Johnson (21) Delist

Re-sign
- Hurn is still needed as the steady head down back and I’d offer him another 1 year deal.
- Redden won’t want to uproot his family chasing a 2 year deal, so I’d only offer him 1 year.
- Duggan’s agent might be up and about as he’s playing well in a contract year. We need to Sign him up for 3 years, maybe 4. That’ll take him through his prime.
- Rotham should be retained on a longer deal, he’s learnt a lot off Hurn the last 2 years.
- Brander should be resigned for at least 2 preferably 3 years at the cheapest rate we can get him for, because he hasn’t proven himself yet. He’s already being talked about over east as a trade target. We need to lock him up so we can trade him later if required.
- Trew, O’Neill & Jameison all are developing well and need new 2 year deals.

Delist/retire -
- Kennedy should be moved aside now to fast track Allen’s development. Allen shouldn’t be sent down back anymore.
- Hutchings is cooked.
- Vardy is easily replaced by Edwards and hopefully Jameison.
- Ah Chee is a spud.
- Nelson doesn’t make our best side when we’re at full strength. List clogger.
- Jones won’t play if Cameron is fit.
- Venables is done too, unfortunately.
- Ainsworth should never have been selected.
- Foley is a nothing type player. Never going to make our best side.
- Johnson has too many people to fight past, not going to make it.
 

Obeanie1

Brownlow Medallist
Jul 26, 2007
23,714
19,217
Darwin
AFL Club
West Coast
I think most of the people who are reacting to this this thread are missing the point. Who's long term contracted beyond 2022 vs players yet to sign for next year. We just locked away Ryan and Sheed, which is great.


How much is it going to cost us to resign Allen, Barrass and Sheppard?

Which is why I mentioned trading Gaff and Waterman. If Brander stays he takes Waterman's natural 3rd tall role. You can't pay both, so the money stays with Brander.

If we can trade Gaff back to Melbourne for Rivers and a late first round pick our way, then we're miles in front, cap and future
You wont get Rivers and a 1st for Gaff. Maybe a 2nd rounder.

Would love Rivers though.
 

Obeanie1

Brownlow Medallist
Jul 26, 2007
23,714
19,217
Darwin
AFL Club
West Coast
We use our first two picks on mids.

Our other 2nd and 3rd look around for moneyball trades for mids. Garcia, Robertson

FFS chase Ben Miller from Richmond. Ruck / defender, played ruck when we won the u18 title in his draft year. He was delisted and rookied by Richmond. That means he is a UFA next time he is out of contract and will cost nothing in picks. Vardy replacement as depth ruck but can play elsewhere.

Look for other fringe mids such as Eli Smith who cant break into the strong sides.

So pick 1 best mid.
Pick 2 best mid.
Pick 3 (Ports 2nd rounder) - have a look around. Garcia, Roberston....if any decent 20 year old mid is gettable go for it. If not go to the draft.
Our 3rd rounder and later picks. See if we can get lower picks by trading down.
Chase unlucky fringe kids types with 3-4 years in the system to add depth. Eg: Eli Smith, Valente

We dont know the inside on our Cameron, hopefully he gets back on the park and reminds everyone how good he is. If his heads not in it ship him off.
 

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