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[Hawkzzz]

Topend I can appreciate your comments and agree that a lot of crap is said in the papers.

However, considering Carl's performance, do you honestly think we would have delisted him unless there was a substantial problem with Carl? No way. He showed considerable improvement and Pelchen himself said that Peterson will either be a Hawk player or won't play.

I think the gist of his statement was to tell other clubs to keep out. We put a lot of time into Carl this year and for good reason. He showed that he has the ability to play at the highest level. In fact, the upside in Carl's case, was quite considerable.

Let's wait and see how this pans out. Will he nominate for the draft or PSD??

I won't be happy if he ends up somewhere else and I suspect neither will the HFC.

 

[northmac]

Good comment Hawkzzzz and good article Toppo but where's it gone mate. Have you taken it off?

 

[topend]

Good comment Hawkzzzz and good article Toppo but where's it gone mate. Have you taken it off?

Yeah felt a bit funny after putting it up. Carls a mate and thought I might have said more about him than I should have. Thanks for you comment Hawkzzzz.

 

[Hawker_Ant]

Skipper - thanks for a great year. You provided good service and we put you back on the radar for other clubs. Win-win.

Muston - sad to see you go. The club stuck by you after 3 reco's and you returned a handful of good games. You can kick from outside fifty and can spot up a target well and play with confidence. Best of luck in finding a new home.

Taylor - thanks for your service. You're not a star and have been lucky to play on a good team with poor rucks. You probably deserved a spot on the 2008 permiership team.

Dowler - a good bloke that showed promise up forward late last year after being played out of position up until then. I think you'll get picked up at another club. Best of luck.

Peterson - you excited us all and won many fans. Don't know what happened there but sad to see you go.

Hooper - thanks for your ferocious tackling and a few important goals (especially Rd 22). Hope happiness finds you in life (in or outside of footy).

Stokes - you were given every opportunity so the club will have no regrets and hopefully you don't either. Best of luck.

Moss - will remember you for your 4 goals down in Tassie last year. Good luck (WAFL?).

Kayler-Thomson - Thought you showed great promise when you hit the ground running. Hopefully you will get another crack at AFL level. Join Sydney with Dennis-Lane and Roberts-Thomson.

Echoing PNess' - thanks for the service.

A few of my own personal opinions:

Skipper, Muston and Katey seem to be the unlucky ones.

Skippy performed well for us and might have held his place had he managed to kick a few more goals this year. With hindsight (the new sub rule) he could have tried to make himself useful in the forward line more often, especially with Buddy running around everywhere in an effort to tire out his opponent and lose tags, but that probably wasn't what Skippy was asked to do.

Muston tried hard at BHH. Did reasonably well in his few appearances as a defensive forward for Hawks and kicked his share of goals. I don't think he's quick enough on his feet, maybe a legacy of his knee injuries.

Katey... always a top-up player in case Young didn't come good. BoG a few times for BHH. After dumping his teaching career, I hope he can find a spot somewhere else. I think he's good enough to play AFL.

Moss was rewarded for a big effort in pre-season with the nominated rookie. Honest player, but just doesn't have the pace we need.

Dowler... enough's been said about him. Maybe the opportunity and environment at another club might re-galvanise his desire and career. He'll be lucky to get one. Clarckson isn't the kind of coach that that going to respect a lack of mental toughness.

I really thought we might trade Taylor to GC. Instead they got Josh Fraser(???). Although I think Taylor is an fairly average ruckman, I think he's got more in him than Fraser has left. I wish we had seen the loophole Collingwood/GC did to get Krakouer (GC using their right to pick up ten uncontracted players to swap them for draft picks instead of topping up their list as it was intended). Will Robbie get another go?

Looks like Hooper brought his Linoes attitudes with him. At Brisbane he was often disappearing off to Ipswich to be with his family. And it sounds like Peterson is a bit the same. Clarkson won't keep anyone that can't fully commit to the team.

Stokes never really had much of a chance to show what he can do over the last couple of years. Too many injuries. Johnson was one of those kids we picked up when we could draft seventeen year olds. Never heard a lot about him.

Well, the list is cleared out now. Waiting to see who we pick up. 2pm, 29th October is when we have to nominate scholarship players to the primary/rookie list.

 

[ScottFan]

Thoroughly disappointed in Skipper's delisting. He was shattered!! It was a complete surprise and he had no desire to leave.
Many comments about Hale's role and that he will fill a major role.
The ave. AFL stats (2010)for Hale compared to Skipper are interesting.

Kicks - Hale 4.8 Skipper 5.3
H/B - Hale 2.8 Skipper 4.7
Dis - Hale 7.7 Skipper 10.1
Mar. - Hale 2.8 Skipper 2.6
Tack - Hale 1.4 Skipper 3.1
H.O - Hale 3.2 Skipper 13.9
G Ass Hale 0.2 Skipper 0.7
Dr Team Hale 44.3 Skipper 59
S Coach Hale 51.8 Skipper 64.4

Why we picked up Hale and delisted Skipper is beyond belief. I think the supporter's deserve an explanation from the club as to their thinking.

 

[illnino]

Thoroughly disappointed in Skipper's delisting. He was shattered!! It was a complete surprise and he had no desire to leave.
Many comments about Hale's role and that he will fill a major role.
The ave. AFL stats (2010)for Hale compared to Skipper are interesting.

Kicks - Hale 4.8 Skipper 5.3
H/B - Hale 2.8 Skipper 4.7
Dis - Hale 7.7 Skipper 10.1
Mar. - Hale 2.8 Skipper 2.6
Tack - Hale 1.4 Skipper 3.1
H.O - Hale 3.2 Skipper 13.9
G Ass Hale 0.2 Skipper 0.7
Dr Team Hale 44.3 Skipper 59
S Coach Hale 51.8 Skipper 64.4

Why we picked up Hale and delisted Skipper is beyond belief. I think the supporter's deserve an explanation from the club as to their thinking.

Forgive me if I'm skeptical about your info on Skipper's departure. You've been here a little over 2 months, so I'm gonna need a little more than that.

As for the comparison to Hale, I'd be interested to compare their game time and time spent in ruck. I imagine Hale's times will be much lower.

 

[burner1]

What are peoples thoughts on skipper/Taylor, muston and dowler getting picked up elsewhere? I can't see JKT, moss, stokes, hooper or peterson being on an afl list next year

Dowler - given the relative success st kilda had with dawson do you think they will try again with dowler? Dowler clearly has talent but lost all confidence in his ability and that of the coaches. Given a number of teams lack quality tall forwards is he a shot to get a 2nd chance? His performances in the vfl reserves won't help though

Muston - is something to work with but also has some obvious flaws in his game (agility, footskills, play-reading ability). Teams could do worse with a depth player as has afl body and excellent attitude but still hasnt worked out what his role is at afl level - I reckon its a 3rd tall forward.

Skipper/Talyor - both handy ruck depth. Think one or both could be rookied.

 

[BlueTongue]

Forgive me for the intrusion guys but I'd like to know what you guys think of Gary Moss' delisting? I saw a few of his games in his first year and thought he was OK. In fact I was wondering why he was dropped so often after coming back into the side. I think he showed a bit, looked a natural footballer and appeared to have a go. Was it likely behavioral issues/ attitude?

Also surprised at Skipper's delisting. Thought he did well for a 196cm ruckman?? Also gotta love the fact that Sandilands came off 2nd bes after clashing knees with him!

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Thoroughly disappointed in Skipper's delisting. He was shattered!! It was a complete surprise and he had no desire to leave.
Many comments about Hale's role and that he will fill a major role.
The ave. AFL stats (2010)for Hale compared to Skipper are interesting.

Kicks - Hale 4.8 Skipper 5.3
H/B - Hale 2.8 Skipper 4.7
Dis - Hale 7.7 Skipper 10.1
Mar. - Hale 2.8 Skipper 2.6
Tack - Hale 1.4 Skipper 3.1
H.O - Hale 3.2 Skipper 13.9
G Ass Hale 0.2 Skipper 0.7
Dr Team Hale 44.3 Skipper 59
S Coach Hale 51.8 Skipper 64.4

Why we picked up Hale and delisted Skipper is beyond belief. I think the supporter's deserve an explanation from the club as to their thinking.

It's interesting, I mention Skipper and people point out his height ( or lack of) , but surely results speak for themself.

 

[Scrads]

Forgive me for the intrusion guys but I'd like to know what you guys think of Gary Moss' delisting? I saw a few of his games in his first year and thought he was OK. In fact I was wondering why he was dropped so often after coming back into the side. I think he showed a bit, looked a natural footballer and appeared to have a go. Was it likely behavioral issues/ attitude?

Also surprised at Skipper's delisting. Thought he did well for a 194cm ruckman?? Also gotta love the fact that Sandilands came off 2nd bes after clashing knees with him!

efa

 

[Rioli magic]

Thoroughly disappointed in Skipper's delisting. He was shattered!! It was a complete surprise and he had no desire to leave.
Many comments about Hale's role and that he will fill a major role.
The ave. AFL stats (2010)for Hale compared to Skipper are interesting.

Kicks - Hale 4.8 Skipper 5.3
H/B - Hale 2.8 Skipper 4.7
Dis - Hale 7.7 Skipper 10.1
Mar. - Hale 2.8 Skipper 2.6
Tack - Hale 1.4 Skipper 3.1
H.O - Hale 3.2 Skipper 13.9
G Ass Hale 0.2 Skipper 0.7
Dr Team Hale 44.3 Skipper 59
S Coach Hale 51.8 Skipper 64.4

You don't honestly rate footballers based on their stats do you? I think you'll find Hodge isn't as good as Marc Murphy.

Why we picked up Hale and delisted Skipper is beyond belief. I think the supporter's deserve an explanation from the club as to their thinking.

Skipper may have been stiff not to remain on the rookie list but it isn't beyond belief. Hale is a bigger, younger, more experienced, better footballer. Take the emotion out of it and the club obviously feels it's a worthwhile gamble and investment to give us a chance to improve. Not doing anything certainly isn't the answer.

 

[Hawkas1988]

I've seen in many posts on this site before that JKT is soft and shirked the contest in the Essendon match earlier in the year. Plus I remember Dermie absolutely potting the bloke on SEN the week after about being soft.

I was at my best mates 21st that night so I didn't get to see the match so I'm just wondering if people can give me some info on what happened and if so is there any footage of him shirking a contest or anything?

In the games prior I liked what I saw, so I'm disappointed to see him not get another go but yeah if anyone can help me out here, it would be much appreciated!

 

[dipper86]

Thoroughly disappointed in Skipper's delisting. He was shattered!! It was a complete surprise and he had no desire to leave.
Many comments about Hale's role and that he will fill a major role.
The ave. AFL stats (2010)for Hale compared to Skipper are interesting.

Kicks - Hale 4.8 Skipper 5.3
H/B - Hale 2.8 Skipper 4.7
Dis - Hale 7.7 Skipper 10.1
Mar. - Hale 2.8 Skipper 2.6
Tack - Hale 1.4 Skipper 3.1
H.O - Hale 3.2 Skipper 13.9
G Ass Hale 0.2 Skipper 0.7
Dr Team Hale 44.3 Skipper 59
S Coach Hale 51.8 Skipper 64.4

Why we picked up Hale and delisted Skipper is beyond belief. I think the supporter's deserve an explanation from the club as to their thinking.

Hale in the games he played this year was played out of full forward. so your comparing the stats this year of a Ruckman vs a full forward. it doesn't seem right now does it. ?

Skipper was nothing more than a stop gap option, he doesn't have the height nor the strength to compete against the big boys, he was ok around the ground but in the centre bounces ball ups etc, he was monstored. His limitations is what cost us the game against St Kilda, he was too small to play body on body at the ball up so he decided to go back and get a run up, the ball was bounced a little short and McEvoy took it out of the ruck and kicked a goal under no pressure what so ever. In that situation you need body on body contact.

 

[TAITA]

Forgive me for the intrusion guys but I'd like to know what you guys think of Gary Moss' delisting? I saw a few of his games in his first year and thought he was OK. In fact I was wondering why he was dropped so often after coming back into the side. I think he showed a bit, looked a natural footballer and appeared to have a go. Was it likely behavioral issues/ attitude?

Also surprised at Skipper's delisting. Thought he did well for a 196cm ruckman?? Also gotta love the fact that Sandilands came off 2nd bes after clashing knees with him!

Moss is a first class citizen and a natural footballer with legs that probably don't keep up with his brain in 'the modern game'.

As an opportunist forward pocket he still has senior footy ahead of him if your teams style allows for it.

Top footballer, and person from what I've heard, just a little slow which made him a luxury we couldn't afford.

Skipper has definitely become a precious commodity and has been talking to a few teams, as many as four, so I am a bit surprised to see he was 'shattered'. Hale was an upgrade I suppose.

 

[illnino]

I think you'll find Hodge isn't as good as Marc Murphy.

I agree with your post but I think I'd be worried a Blues fan might see that sentence and want a new signature.

 

[topend]

Now this may not be politically correct but why the F___ are we keeping Travis Tuck?
Even giving him an opportunity. Twenty games in five years and three strikes in the drug policy. Do you not think all of those eleven players should be given the opportunity to stay on as a rookie? How many of these guys were found by the cops in a car off their ****.
I wonder if its a case of when you ground your teenage daughter and say "right your grounded for the next 3 months" then think to yourself afterwards what the f___ was I thinking when I said that. Did they think that thought when they talked up big about looking after Travis? Apparently he is suffering from depression. I wonder how Mossy, Skipper, Carl, Jarrod KT etc..... are all feeling right now.
Wonder if their Dads were Hawthorn legends whether it'd make a difference.
Its all getting a bit bitter and twisted now up here in the tropics.

 

[chenyan]

Now this may not be politically correct but why the F___ are we keeping Travis Tuck?

Not certain yet. We've committed to giving him one of three available train-on spots; with a view to rookie one of those three. I'm sure the other players mentioned in your post will be pushing for one of those spots also..

Very very touchy moral issue about our duties to help Trav, and if anywhere, it belongs in a separate thread. My view is that it doesn't warrant discussion until we actually rookie him.

 

[Franko Armani]

FORMER Hawthorn ruckman Wayde Skipper was shocked to be delisted on Tuesday but hopes to find a new home in November's draft.

Skipper had been confident he would win another one-year deal with the Hawks after playing 15 games this year.

But the 27-year-old former Bulldog was jettisoned along with fellow tall Simon Taylor.

The club's ruck department will be led by Brent Renouf and North Melbourne recruit David Hale and backed up by injury-prone Max Bailey and 204cm teenager Luke Lowden..

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...ng-from-hawthorn/story-e6frf9jf-1225941419004

 

[Hawkzzz]

Hale in the games he played this year was played out of full forward. so your comparing the stats this year of a Ruckman vs a full forward. it doesn't seem right now does it. ?

Skipper was nothing more than a stop gap option, he doesn't have the height nor the strength to compete against the big boys, he was ok around the ground but in the centre bounces ball ups etc, he was monstored. His limitations is what cost us the game against St Kilda, he was too small to play body on body at the ball up so he decided to go back and get a run up, the ball was bounced a little short and McEvoy took it out of the ruck and kicked a goal under no pressure what so ever. In that situation you need body on body contact.

Spot on Dipper.

The frustrating thing for Hale is that they had McIntosh and Goldstein rucking and Hale as a full fwd. Hale is not a permanent full fwd. Hale himself has admitted he isn't a permanent fwd.

Before the above two took over from Hale he was considered a vital part of the Roos plans. When these two came along the Roos still knew Hale was valuable but tried their hardest to make him into something he isn't.

For us, Hale is exactly what we need. If he can recover the same form he had when he used to Ruck for the Roos, everyone will be rapt. Added to that, he's done his apprenticeship as a forward so he's more than capable of kicking a goal or two while resting deep in attack.


Having said this, Skipper did better than expected as a back up and I wish him the very best.

 

[illnino]

Hale should also receive considerably less attention from the opposition in the Hawks forward line than at the Roos seeing as defenders have Buddy (when he isn't up field) and Roughy to worry about.

 

[TAITA]

Hale should also receive considerably less attention from the opposition in the Hawks forward line than at the Roos seeing as defenders have Buddy (when he isn't up field) and Roughy to worry about.

Hehe, how many hours did opposition scouts and coaches waste just in case Hale ever kicked 8 goals in a match again?

 

[Hawkamania!]

After the de-listings and trading, we have five spots in the senior list to fill in a draft where established clubs' picks will be lower than usual. We also have the option of Bateman being a listed as a veteran outside the main list, freeing up another spot, at the expense of a rookie spot.

Here is our draft picks for the upcoming draft: 19, 37, 54, 66, 88, 105, 122, 139. IMHO, based on a quick look at past drafts, I am not confident of gaining a productive pick from 88 onwards.

My preference would be to keep Bateman on the main list, promote Milne and use our first four picks.

I assume our rookie list will include a couple of NSW scholarship players based on our rookie de-listings which we can use our later picks on. Sierakowski and Breust are still listed and Travis Tuck to be drafted here which will bring our rookies to five out of a maximum of nine spots.

Is there any chance that one or two of our de-listed players will be allowed to continue training with the Hawks in the hope of being re-drafted by us?

 

[JoondalupJ]

Spot on Dipper.

The frustrating thing for Hale is that they had McIntosh and Goldstein rucking and Hale as a full fwd. Hale is not a permanent full fwd. Hale himself has admitted he isn't a permanent fwd.

Before the above two took over from Hale he was considered a vital part of the Roos plans. When these two came along the Roos still knew Hale was valuable but tried their hardest to make him into something he isn't.

For us, Hale is exactly what we need. If he can recover the same form he had when he used to Ruck for the Roos, everyone will be rapt. Added to that, he's done his apprenticeship as a forward so he's more than capable of kicking a goal or two while resting deep in attack.


Having said this, Skipper did better than expected as a back up and I wish him the very best.

Well said Hawkzzz. I agree, I liked the bloke too.

 

[illnino]

Hehe, how many hours did opposition scouts and coaches waste just in case Hale ever kicked 8 goals in a match again?

Those hours may not be a waste afterall

Seriously though TAITA, if Buddy floats around the 50m area and Rough hangs back in the square, it should free Hale up to take a grab or 3 in the forward line if the mids look for him. It may even work in Rough's favour actually, if the opposition decide to put a better defender on Hale. The midfield should have targets coming out their ears in the forward line anyway which is a good thing. Just need another crumber or 2 to compliment them.

 

[ScottFan]

info on Sipper's departure is correct - you could be right about game time.