Mega Thread List Changes, Drafting, Trading & Rookie Thread

[S.Patrol.G]

Yep, mid with speed and elite foot skills. Priority Número UNO.

 

[tigs2010]

It's his third strike at Richmond, and while he was serviceable, he was certainly no star. Do not want.

If by at Richmond you mean Hardwick era then yes, yes it is. I believe he had another 7-8 strikes while Wallace was coach.

While true, its the same lesson Schulzy had to learn. We have the ideal rolemodel for Connors.

Not even close to being in the same boat.

 

[Hellgood]

Toumpas would be the guy I am hoping that we get with our first pick. He just looks elite and has a pretty complete midfield game. Can play inside, outside, kick goals, plays well in big occasions, is a tall midfielder, disposal looks terrific and his poise and vision are as good as most AFL players. Unfortunately he is a fair chance to be snapped up before our pick which could actually be a much lower pick than we would like given Melbourne and the Bulldogs get to double up - so we are looking in the range of pick 7 or pick 8 where Toumpas will sadly be long gone. Not that Chad Wingard was ever expected to be at pick 6 this time last year.

This is how I think it might play out:
1. Gold Coast take Whitfield - simply the best available
2. GWS take Grundy - too good to pass up even if you are not desperate for a ruckman
3. Melbourne take Viney - Gold Coast or GWS will bid whether they like it or not
4. Melbourne take Toumpas - damn
5. Bulldogs take Garlett - have been watching this guy for the last couple of years and he won't be dropping out of the top 10
6. Bulldogs take Plowman - hard to overlook Wines, Stringer, Mayes etc. but they desperately need key defenders - they are looking at Shaw, Jacksch but they already have tall key forwards
7. Port have the option of Wines, Stringer, Mayes, Menzel, Shaw, Colquhon, O'Rourke. Plenty of choice regardless of which way we are going to go.

Vlastuin is also there, but I haven't been impressed with his performances in the championships thus far. The two games I have seen VM play in, he has hardly been sighted.

 

[Honeyboy Wilson]

Toumpas would be the guy I am hoping that we get with our first pick. He just looks elite and has a pretty complete midfield game. Can play inside, outside, kick goals, plays well in big occasions, is a tall midfielder, disposal looks terrific and his poise and vision are as good as most AFL players. Unfortunately he is a fair chance to be snapped up before our pick which could actually be a much lower pick than we would like given Melbourne and the Bulldogs get to double up - so we are looking in the range of pick 7 or pick 8 where Toumpas will sadly be long gone. Not that Chad Wingard was ever expected to be at pick 6 this time last year.

This is how I think it might play out:
1. Gold Coast take Whitfield - simply the best available
2. GWS take Grundy - too good to pass up even if you are not desperate for a ruckman
3. Melbourne take Viney - Gold Coast or GWS will bid whether they like it or not
4. Melbourne take Toumpas - damn
5. Bulldogs take Garlett - have been watching this guy for the last couple of years and he won't be dropping out of the top 10
6. Bulldogs take Plowman - hard to overlook Wines, Stringer, Mayes etc. but they desperately need key defenders - they are looking at Shaw, Jacksch but they already have tall key forwards
7. Port have the option of Wines, Stringer, Mayes, Menzel, Shaw, Colquhon, O'Rourke. Plenty of choice regardless of which way we are going to go.

Vlastuin is also there, but I haven't been impressed with his performances in the championships thus far. The two games I have seen VM play in, he has hardly been sighted.

Haha Bulldogs beat us by 7 goals, you're pretty positive for the rest of the season. Plus Bulldogs didn't get a Band 1 compensation, so they only have one pick. The highest pick we'll have is 6, most likely 5 though.

Melbourne is likely to get Toumpas, which sucks for us, but I'd be happy with Sam Mayes as well. I think he'll be the better player in the long run.

 

[Natman]

I know that Colquhon got a lot of possessions, but it was mainly as a loose man and with completely free rein - reminded me of Mitch Farmer a bit at the same age. I was more impressed with Montgomery in the last game - he got a lot of the ball, but in more contested situations.
The style of these champ games show off the natural skills of the players which leads to the danger of over-rating them based purely on the number of possessions gained.

That said, the most impressive to me were (for SA) were Toumpas and Mayes (both obvious) and I would be happy to have either. Not sure that we need Grundy more than classy mids right now - with Grundy's size, it looked almost unfair that he should be playing in these games.

 

[Phhht]

.....
That said, the most impressive to me were (for SA) were Toumpas and Mayes (both obvious) and I would be happy to have either. Not sure that we need Grundy more than classy mids right now - with Grundy's size, it looked almost unfair that he should be playing in these games.

The impressive part of Grundy's game however isnt just that he simply out muscled, or was to tall for his opponents (which he was). It was how much he worked and worked around the ground (very similar to Cox in that respect) plus he continually won clearances from his 2nd efforts. Especially in the game against Vic Metro where his team struggled. I caught 3/4 of that game live and the amount of clearances he either got himself or instigated after his ruckwork was super. He really does play like a 2nd midfielder BUT can play as a genuine big man as well. He is a very impressive player at this stage of his footy life.
I agree that Port needs a pure midfielder first but if Grundy was available at our pick, geez it would be hard not to select him.
I reckon our most important pick will be our 2nd pick, wherever that is.

 

[Schulzenfest]

Haha Bulldogs beat us by 7 goals, you're pretty positive for the rest of the season.

Got bored and did a ladder predictor the other day. Didn't have the Bulldogs down to win another game. They have a terrible draw for the rest of the season.

 

[Wargreymon90]

If Grundy is somehow still available at our selection, with gws, melbourne and bulldogs light on for ruck/kpp players, it would be a bigger get for port adelaide then wingard was last year.

 

[Schulzenfest]

I would hate us to get Grundy. Please no more ruckmen, it's the one position we have that doesn't need any help.

 

[Wargreymon90]

I would hate us to get Grundy. Please no more ruckmen, it's the one position we have that doesn't need any help.

Would you trade our first pick for natnui or kreuzer? You can put Grundy in their category

 

[Powerade 08]

Would you trade our first pick for natnui or kreuzer? You can put Grundy in their category

Huge diff between Nic Nat and Kreuzer...

and no I wouldn't trade our first round pick for Kreuzer or any other middle of the road ruck given we already have 3 (1 or 2 of them have the potential to be very good players)

 

[Wargreymon90]

You don't pick players on needs in the first round. You simply pick the best available. If Grundy is still around, chances are he will be the best available by a fair stretch

 

[Portia]

You don't pick players on needs in the first round. You simply pick the best available.

Disagree.

 

[Schulzenfest]

Would you trade our first pick for natnui or kreuzer? You can put Grundy in their category

Naitanui, maybe. Wouldn't even consider it for Kreuzer.

And you can't put Grundy in their category, because Grundy is totally unproven. Just look at Kreuzer for proof that highly rated young rucks don't always come on exactly as hoped.

 

[Natman]

You don't pick players on needs in the first round. You simply pick the best available. If Grundy is still around, chances are he will be the best available by a fair stretch

So WCE would pick Grundy with their first pick?

 

[Wargreymon90]

You guys don't rate kreuzer?

And I doubt even west coast would pass on Grundy. Would slip quite well into their forward line atm.

Look I do think we need midfielders and toumpas is number 1 on my wish list (even though I think Grundy is a better talent).

But Grundy is a rare talent and shouldn't be overlooked purely because we have some decent ruckmen already

 

[Powerade 08]

You don't pick players on needs in the first round.

It depends on where you're at with the list. A lot of clubs are happy to give up first rounders or take players early if they can fill a need.

We know what our needs are so we might not go best available and take a guy who fills a need instead (Good center midfielder (Might be best available anyway)).

 

[Powerade 08]

You guys don't rate kreuzer?

The best rucks are the ones that win a lot of hitouts and get it to the advantage of their mids. Kicking goals or getting kicks/handballs is nice but a ruck should be able to ruck.

Without looking at the stats I'd say Kreuzer is probably not one of the better tap rucks going around.

Clubs are trying to reinvent the wheel with athletic rucks but premiership teams still have guys who are smart tap rucks.

 

[Schulzenfest]

You guys don't rate kreuzer?

He's pretty good. He's not worth a No. 1 pick. Anyone but the most biased of Carlton supporters would rather have Cotchin.

Considering a) our needs and b) the greater reliability of drafting midfielders as opposed to drafting ruckmen I'd much rather we took a pure midfielder over Grundy.

The best rucks are the ones that win a lot of hitouts and get it to the advantage of their mids. Kicking goals or getting kicks/handballs is nice but a ruck should be able to ruck.

This. Shits me when people talk about guys like Dean Cox as 'an extra midfielder'. Take the ability to ruck away from his game and he'd be a cheap possession winning hack who wouldn't get a game.

 

[tigs2010]

Got bored and did a ladder predictor the other day. Didn't have the Bulldogs down to win another game. They have a terrible draw for the rest of the season.

Have the same. I've got Doggies finishing with pick 3 & 4 and not the Dees.

 

[Portia]

This quote is from the Boaky thread, but I thought it more appropriate to do this here:

I don't see a lot of point in trying to quickly jump up the ladder like Carlton, great midfield but shit outside it. We exist to win premierships, and premiership sides have proper KPPs AND good midfields.

And you know that you're saying something patently obvious when Wallsy writes an article about it a week or so later.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...-flags-20120705-21k4v.html?rand=1341495665433​

Recent history tells us that in-form, big forwards are a key to winning flags. Tom Hawkins led the way last year on grand final day. When Collingwood won in 2010, Cloke and Dawes stood up.​

<snip>​

Last year, Carlton averaged 103 points a game to be the fourth highest-scoring team. The Blues did it with the medium-sized Andrew Walker and two smalls, Eddie Betts and Jeff Garlett. But you can't sustain that. A quality big target (two preferably) is required, and the Blues just don't have that. They have had to compromise, with ruckmen Shaun Hampson and Matthew Kreuzer going forward, as Jarrad Waite just doesn't play enough. This year they are ranked 11th for scoring. It's not hard to guess what sort of players will be No. 1 on the recruiting list for 2013.​

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...-flags-20120705-21k4v.html?rand=1341495665433​

So, can we stop talking about needing to follow the Carlton method of `success' now?

 

[Slattery_20]

Schulz only made one mistake IIRC. Connors is averaging one mistake a year over the last 3 years. Plus he's not that good anyway (although neither was Schulz).

Key tall vs flanker.

Not many key talls; zillion kids who can run up and down a flank.

 

[Wargreymon90]

He's pretty good. He's not worth a No. 1 pick. Anyone but the most biased of Carlton supporters would rather have Cotchin.

Considering a) our needs and b) the greater reliability of drafting midfielders as opposed to drafting ruckmen I'd much rather we took a pure midfielder over Grundy.



This. Shits me when people talk about guys like Dean Cox as 'an extra midfielder'. Take the ability to ruck away from his game and he'd be a cheap possession winning hack who wouldn't get a game.

The best thing about Grundy is his tap work

 

[S.Patrol.G]

The impressive part of Grundy's game however isnt just that he simply out muscled, or was to tall for his opponents (which he was). It was how much he worked and worked around the ground (very similar to Cox in that respect) plus he continually won clearances from his 2nd efforts. Especially in the game against Vic Metro where his team struggled. I caught 3/4 of that game live and the amount of clearances he either got himself or instigated after his ruckwork was super. He really does play like a 2nd midfielder BUT can play as a genuine big man as well. He is a very impressive player at this stage of his footy life.
I agree that Port needs a pure midfielder first but if Grundy was available at our pick, geez it would be hard not to select him.
I reckon our most important pick will be our 2nd pick, wherever that is.

Without checking, my gut feeling is we've never really cashed in with our second pick. Yes/no?

And fingers crossed, I reckon Toumpas could still be available for our first.

 

[Phhht]

Without checking, my gut feeling is we've never really cashed in with our second pick. Yes/no?

And fingers crossed, I reckon Toumpas could still be available for our first.

Yeah we've picked up some OK-ish players (Trengove and Moore hopefully better than that) but our 2nd picks could have been better worked.
Question is does the club think a good pure mid will be avail at our 2nd pick?

And Toumpas being injured and not being able to promote himself as much as other kids might just work for us. If Toumpas is gone and Grundy is there I have a feeling (rightly or wrongly) that our club will pull the trigger. A lot will depend on whether Boak is still with us though.

Personally after Toumpas and as risky as it is I'd have a serious look at Stringer, if he continues to recover well from his leg issues. He is exactly what we need, IMO.