List Mgmt. List changes

[tigs2010]

I dont subscribe to the Darrou will be a good afl backmen theory, He has been on the rookie list 2-3 years and still no upgrade even when Grimes was out for extended periods

Very unlikely to make it in my opinion similar to Verrier

Has talent. Needs to keep building his tank. Also, when we could have actually used him he had a broken jaw. Never going to be a star but Grimes needs a back-up IMO.

 

[THE_GUN]

Has talent. Needs to keep building his tank. Also, when we could have actually used him he had a broken jaw. Never going to be a star but Grimes needs a back-up IMO.

The thing is does he deserve a senior list spot ?? I dont think he does

 

[tigs2010]

The thing is does he deserve a senior list spot ?? I dont think he does

Nope one more year rookie. Give him NAB games to show what he can offer. Kid can play. He may not make it but we've developed him well and he should get the extra rookie year even if it's just as depth.

 

[THE_GUN]

Nope one more year rookie. Give him NAB games to show what he can offer. Kid can play. He may not make it but we've developed him well and he should get the extra rookie year even if it's just as depth.

Not against keeping him on the rookie list tigs, But really cant see him being promoted unless he totally starts to dominate in the reserves - In saying that having our own 2nds will show us alot about the development of our 2nd stringers

 

[tigs2010]

Not against keeping him on the rookie list tigs, But really cant see him being promoted unless he totally starts to dominate in the reserves - In saying that having our own 2nds will show us alot about the development of our 2nd stringers

That's what I want to. Was just against delisting him for another untried kid. We've finally got a rookie showing something and people want to cut him.

 

[Damo80]

Not against keeping him on the rookie list tigs, But really cant see him being promoted unless he totally starts to dominate in the reserves - In saying that having our own 2nds will show us alot about the development of our 2nd stringers

By all reports he's been very, very good at Coburg. Shame he's not 2" taller, cos I think he'd be one of our most promising KPP's if he were.

P.s. I'm not sure you should read too much into the fact that he hasn't been promoted to cover for injuries. There's wider implications in promoting a rookie, and I can understand the club would be cautious about doing so (even if he is arguably our best performed defender at VFL level) while we still have senior list options who can do the job: I.e. Astbury, Petterd, Batch.

 

[docko911]

Griffiths, Astbury, Dea
Batchelor, Helbig, O'Han
Elton, Arnot, O'Hanlon
McIntosh, McBean, McDonough

I want 1 more year out of the lot. I reckon there is some serious talent there.

 

[tigs2010]

Griffiths, Astbury, Dea
Batchelor, Helbig, O'Han
Elton, Arnot, O'Hanlon
McIntosh, McBean, McDonough

I want 1 more year out of the lot. I reckon there is some serious talent there.

Although I've made my thoughts on Griff known that I don't really rate him, that is a talented bunch. We won't make big cuts this year. Doubt any of those are delisted. But next year is a big year for Griff, Dea, Batchelor, Helbig, O'Hanlon and to a lesser extent Arnot and even Astbury. Next year could be a mini-rebuild year if players don't come on as hoped.

Edit: by mini-rebuild I mean a bit of a list clean out, not a head down the ladder type rebuild.

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

Although I've made my thoughts on Griff known that I don't really rate him, that is a talented bunch. We won't make big cuts this year. Doubt any of those are delisted. But next year is a big year for Griff, Dea, Batchelor, Helbig, O'Hanlon and to a lesser extent Arnot and even Astbury. Next year could be a mini-rebuild year if players don't come on as hoped.

Edit: by mini-rebuild I mean a bit of a list clean out, not a head down the ladder type rebuild.

If O'hanlon , Griffith , Astbury , Helbig , Dea and Arnott can't knock Pettard , Grigg and A.Edwards out if the side after being on our list 3-4 years they should be delisted . That is not potting the older players but they were depth at their previous clubs and the newbies need to starting knocking them out of our best 22.
I think most of them will in 2014 , if they don't we might be in the shit . I have high hopes O'hanlon -Grigg , Pettard -Dea , Griffith , will make the club significantly stronger in 2014 .
I've been a fan of Helbig and Astbury , but they have been a tad dissapointing over the past 2 years when fit enough to play AFL , injuries have cruelled them .

 

[_RT_]

Darrou is Grimes back-up. Which IMO we desperately need.

Being Grimes' backs up isn't the problem, the problem is that we don't have a genuine KPD developing under Rance & Chaplin. By genuine I mean someone who has the potential to become a 195+cm 98kg gorilla who can take the big gorilla forwards. As far as Darrou is concerned if he was still available in the rookie draft I'd have no problem in taking him back if we'd already secured the above.

Did they get rid of Gibson?

Darrou is no Gibson and to suggest he is, is well laughable. He is a VFL quality defender who performed well in part because the Coburg backline was almost always under pressure. The fact that he laid 12 tackles in 13 games shows that he isn't an overly defensive backman but more of an attacking rebounding defender. That is not what we need at this stage. We need a lock down defender who is capable of doing a shut down job on the oppositions best KPF.

 

[wolf man]

I dont subscribe to the Darrou will be a good afl backmen theory, He has been on the rookie list 2-3 years and still no upgrade even when Grimes was out for extended periods

Very unlikely to make it in my opinion similar to Verrier

He broke his jaw during this year, his second year, so was out injured at the wrong time but had super form to start and finish the season this year. Definitely will be on the Richmond list next year. He has a lot of similarities to Grimes in that he defends first and has had to learn to attack out of defence also. He will make it as a defender, and was better than Batchelor the last month at Coburg, but the best thing is he is not a forward that has been tried to be turned into a back.

 

[TheAnt]

Being Grimes' backs up isn't the problem, the problem is that we don't have a genuine KPD developing under Rance & Chaplin. By genuine I mean someone who has the potential to become a 195+cm 98kg gorilla who can take the big gorilla forwards. As far as Darrou is concerned if he was still available in the rookie draft I'd have no problem in taking him back if we'd already secured the above.



Darrou is no Gibson and to suggest he is, is well laughable. He is a VFL quality defender who performed well in part because the Coburg backline was almost always under pressure. The fact that he laid 12 tackles in 13 games shows that he isn't an overly defensive backman but more of an attacking rebounding defender. That is not what we need at this stage. We need a lock down defender who is capable of doing a shut down job on the oppositions best KPF.

To be honest this just suggests you don't watch Coburg games.. Isn't it MORE impressive if he isn't getting beaten by his opponents when the defence is always under pressure? He is the perfect third tall and he can actually add something offensively as well. Silly, silly call. Astbury is the gorilla defender developing.

 

[_RT_]

To be honest this just suggests you don't watch Coburg games.. Isn't it MORE impressive if he isn't getting beaten by his opponents when the defence is always under pressure? He is the perfect third tall and he can actually add something offensively as well. Silly, silly call. Astbury is the gorilla defender developing.

Haven't watched as much of Coburg as I would have liked this year, so I'll admit that has probably affected my judgement a little, but I do stand by my opinion that Darrou from what I have seen over the 2 years he has been on the rookie list isn't good enough to be what we want him to be.

As for Astbury, unless he can regain some of his lost speed and get himself back into the 22 on a regular basis next year I fear that he too may also find himself looking for somewhere else to play in 2015.

 

[TheAnt]

Haven't watched as much of Coburg as I would have liked this year, so I'll admit that has probably affected my judgement a little, but I do stand by my opinion that Darrou from what I have seen over the 2 years he has been on the rookie list isn't good enough to be what we want him to be.

As for Astbury, unless he can regain some of his lost speed and get himself back into the 22 on a regular basis next year I fear that he too may also find himself looking for somewhere else to play in 2015.

So 5 times in the bests in 13 matches isn't good enough for a defender in a rubbish team? Pretty good if you ask me.

 

[Harmichael]

Being Grimes' backs up isn't the problem, the problem is that we don't have a genuine KPD developing under Rance & Chaplin. By genuine I mean someone who has the potential to become a 195+cm 98kg gorilla who can take the big gorilla forwards. As far as Darrou is concerned if he was still available in the rookie draft I'd have no problem in taking him back if we'd already secured the above.



Darrou is no Gibson and to suggest he is, is well laughable. He is a VFL quality defender who performed well in part because the Coburg backline was almost always under pressure. The fact that he laid 12 tackles in 13 games shows that he isn't an overly defensive backman but more of an attacking rebounding defender. That is not what we need at this stage. We need a lock down defender who is capable of doing a shut down job on the oppositions best KPF.

Well of course he's no Gibson yet - he's a second year rookie - but he has the potential to be a very good player who's a similar type playing a similar role and has almost universally impressed in nearly every game he's played this year. 1 cm taller & 5kg's heavier than Gibson at this point btw, so hardly severely undersized either.


Don't quite understand how "performing well in a backline that's always under pressure" is an argument against a bloke. Nor that because we need a lockdown defenders, we don't need him as well. You need quality depth as many positions & roles as possible.

 

[Grockadoc]

Here are my thoughts on the current list for 2014. This is Part 1, and I'll get the remainder up tomorrow.


Arnot: Make or break season, you would think. Shane Tuck retiring means that door has well and truly opened for Matthew to cement a best 22 spot. However, I believe his season hinges on who we draft in the National Draft this year. If we get one of Dom Sheed or Nathan Freeman, Arnot is going to be hard pressed to find a spot in the midfield, and could find himself moved on, either to another club, or delisted by the end of next year. If we do get Sheed/Freeman, the only way Arnot will get a game is if there are injuries to any of our midfielders.

Astbury: An interesting one for this year. Coming back from a serious knee injury, and was in some ripping form before his injury. Has all the tools to cement himself as a quality defender, however, he is 4th string at the moment, behind Rance, Chaplin and Grimes. Much like Arnot, opportunities seem to be pretty slim for him at the moment, and only an injury to the three aforementioned will see Astbury get many games next season. Could become trade bait at the end of this season, especially if Todd Elton comes along nicely as the defender the club are hoping, as he is a better prospect than Astbury, in my opinion.

Batchelor: A victim of our depth, this year, and that should continue next year. Competing for spots with Houli and Newman (Who are our two back flankers at the moment), Petterd, Dea and McIntosh. He is a very frustrating footballer, who has some talent, but just can't seem to make it click. Will most likely be shopped around at the end of this season, and if a suitable trade can be found, will be shown the door. If not, he will be kept as depth, and unless there are terrible form from our flankers or Grimes, he will find it hard to crack a senior game.

Chaplin: Absolutely crucial part of our 2014 campaign. Has been immeasurable in terms of value and importance to our backline. His ability to take on the bigger bodied Forwards such as Cloke and Petrie has proved to be invaluable to the side, as it provides relief to Rance and Grimes. If all three of our KPD can stay on the park, we have, genuinely, one of the best defences in the league, and Chaplin is the reason why. Really has no competition for his spot at the moment, unless he gets injured.

Conca: Has developed nicely, although there is some conjecture over whether he may, or may not be at the Tigers in 2014. he has become a genuine ball winner, and a hard nut who provides a real spark, and a determination to take the game on, and isn't afraid to take risks. With further development into Reece, and another preseason under the belts of our midfield brigade, Conca is set to really establish himself as a vital cog, and an essential part of our future success. Again, has no real competition for his spot, other than Arnot, who needs to iron out a couple of things in his game.

Cotchin: Absolute jet, however, he had a disappointing year this year, when compared to 2012. The added pressure of captaincy, as well as a couple of bruised knees had a real impact on his performance. With a solid run of injuries, and another preseason under his belt, Cotchin should return to the lofty standards he set last year, and as a result, our midfield becomes so much better. Again, no competition for his spot, and will play every game he is eligible to.

Darrou: A rookie who has shown promise. Should get elevated at the end of this season, as he is a personal favourite of Leppa. Unless we have drastic injuries to our KPD stocks, won't be in contention for 2014.

Dea: In the same boat as Batchelor. Has become a victim to our own depth. Was drafted as a skilled, but very raw prospect, and has developed into a quality footballer. Would probably be third in line for a half back position, with Batchelor ahead of him, but with speculation Batchelor may be shipped off, and Newman getting on, could find himself on the end of a few games.

Deledio: Will be a lock in our best 22, but he really needs to work on his ability to shake a tag in the off season. A firing Deledio will be immense in our pursuit of a top 4 spot. He had a disappointing 2013 season, and could have been the difference between winning and losing in a few games this year. 2014 is going to bring added pressure the likes of which we haven't seen for a long time. And Deledio has to be one of a few who need to stand up.

Derickx: Gone at the end of 2013. For a mature age, state league ruckman, hasn't stamped himself as a genuine number one ruckman, even with our dangerously thin ruck stocks.

Edwards, A: Needs to make the most of his chances in 2014. Has some competition for his spot so he really needs to capitalise on every opportunity he is given, and he will be given a fair few. If he doesn't fire, he will more than likely be shipped off at the end of next season.

Edwards, S: A vastly improved footballer than where he was a few seasons ago, but he needs to start delivering on a consistent basis. A shift to the midfield for longer spurts has seen him become a more dangerous player, but he still needs to do more than what he does, more often. If he falters, could find himself shipped off to another club as his currency would be decent.

Ellis: Completely safe for his position in 2014. Has developed very nicely, and has really worked on his composure this season. Another year of developing and he should really start to cement himself as one of our most important players.

 

[THE_GUN]

I do realise that Darrou is slightly taller than Batchelor & Dea but we have effectively 4 players that are all playing for the same position which is the spot that Dylan Grimes currently plays - How many Dylan Grimes backup do we actually need -
that Dea 186cm , Batchelor 188cm , Darrou 190cm , McIntosh 192cm

 

[mactier]

Delisting deadline is Tuesday according to an article in the Herald Sun, so we'll know whats what soon enough.

 

[Mr Magic]

I do realise that Darrou is slightly taller than Batchelor & Dea but we have effectively 4 players that are all playing for the same position which is the spot that Dylan Grimes currently plays - How many Dylan Grimes backup do we actually need -
that Dea 186cm , Batchelor 188cm , Darrou 190cm , McIntosh 192cm

IMO Dea,Batchelor are backup for Houli,Morris and Newman, Not Grimes, Although not sure backup is the right word rather other backline options

 

[THE_GUN]

IMO Dea,Batchelor are backup for Houli,Morris and Newman, Not Grimes, Although not sure backup is the right word rather other backline options

Both Houli & Morris are very very different types of players and the are extremely different to all the others i have mentioned except perhaps McIntosh who is probably more of an Andrew Mackie type of defender if he becomes a defender eventually
Batchelor,Dea, are more the grimes types of defenders but a shorter players
Morris is your typical kamakaze lock down small defender and Houli is your running half back flanker which tbh i dont believe either Dea or Batch have the run & carry or the creativity that houli has atm

 

[webbie]

Darrou will be a handy player and will make it to the senior list, elite user of the footy as well. Marty Scarlett was only 192cm, and I think Darrou might be over 190 now anyway.

 

[tigs2010]

Delisting deadline is Tuesday according to an article in the Herald Sun, so we'll know whats what soon enough.

That's just the first list lodgment. Some clubs haven't even finished their season. You can wait and delist at the 3rd if you want. Only one in trouble for us is Derickx IMO

 

[tigs2010]

Both Houli & Morris are very very different types of players and the are extremely different to all the others i have mentioned except perhaps McIntosh who is probably more of an Andrew Mackie type of defender if he becomes a defender eventually
Batchelor,Dea, are more the grimes types of defenders but a shorter players
Morris is your typical kamakaze lock down small defender and Houli is your running half back flanker which tbh i dont believe either Dea or Batch have the run & carry or the creativity that houli has atm

Dea is more in the Morris mould. Shut down small defender. Not saying he's as good at it but that's more his style. Also has a very good rebounding game at VFL level. Just needs confidence which may never happen and he just ends up a good VFL player.

If Batch loses some weight and hence gains some speed back he could play a rebounding role as the 4th tall in defence as could McIntosh. They aren't all Grimes back-ups though Batch has been forced to be due to necessity with a couple of the others not ready.

 

[_RT_]

Since the Dusty story has broke since I last posted in this thread I thought I'd update what I would like to see happen from this off season:

Trade Table:
Martin to Melbourne for picks 2 & 20
Pick 12 to GWS for Adams & 19
Griffiths to Lions for pick 25
Pick 29 to WCE for Lycett
Nahas to Dogs for pick 38

Delist:
McGuane
Shane Tuck - already announced retirement.
Orren Stephenson (r)- retire
Sam Lonergan (r)
Brad Helbig
Tom Derickx
Stephen Verrier(r)
Gideon Simon(r)

2014 List 35 senior list 2 rookies:
1. Newman
2. Grimes
3. Deledio
4. Adams
5. Ellis
6. Grigg
7. Dea
8. Riewoldt
9. Cotchin
10. S.Edwards
11. Batchelor
12. Astbury
13. Petterd
14. Houli
15. Knights
16. Lycett
18. Rance
19.
20. Maric
21.
22.
23. Jackson
24.
25. Chaplin
26.
27. A.Edwards
28. King
29. Vickery
30. Conca
31. Vlastuin
32
33. McIntosh
34. McBean
35. White
36. McDonough
37.
38. Morris
39.
40 Williams(rookie)
41. Foley
43. Elton
44. Arnot
45. O'Hanlon
46.
47.
48. Darrou (rookie)

Draft Picks:
2, 19, 20, 25, 38(Petterd upgrade)

2. James Aish 183cm 74kg Midfielder from SA. Looking on the T&D board and this kid is number 2 behind Boyd on Knightmares and Chris25's drafts. Reading the reports on him he comes across as a decent Martin replacement.

19. Trent Dumont 185cm 83kf Mid/Def from SA. Reading Knightmares comparison and the first thing that jumps out is his style is like Vlastuin, the second thing that jumps out is that when required to he will put his head over the ball and win it. Good enough for me.

20. Blake Acres 188cm 84kg Utility from WA. We need more outside run and carry and reading the write up from Knightmare this kid plays that sort of role. Style is compared to Deledio, who wouldn't want another Deledio type running around.

25. Billy Hartung 176cm 71kg Mid/Fwd from Vic. Been a fan of this kid since the champs and I see him as a Foley replacement down the track. Small quick midfielder who will take the game on with his breakaway speed. The bonus is the kid is like an Energiser bunny just keeps on going all day.

38. Petterd Upgrade

Best 22:
B: Morris Rance Grimes
HB: Houli Chaplin Deledio
C: Conca Jackson Ellis
HF: Knights Vickery Adams
F: King Riewoldt S.Edwards
R: Maric Vlastuin Cotchin
INT: Newman Grigg Petterd Foley

Reserves:
B: Dea Darrou McIntosh
HB: Batchelor Astbury Williams
C: Dumont Arnot Hartung
HF: O'Hanlon Elton Acres
F: McDonough McBean A.Edwards
R: Lycett Aish White
INT: Rookie 3 Rookie 4 Rookie 5 Rookie 6.

 

[tigs2010]

I'd use 38 in the draft RT. It's a good pick that teams don't use to upgrade rookies with IMO.