List deficiencies: What are they, and how do we fix them?

Loramarthalas

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Thread starter #1
Last year there was a general consensus, from outside, but also within the club, that we;

1) lacked a second deep forward or tall forward option. Hammer seems partly to have filled that void, but it remains a real concern.

2) lacked a quality inside mid that might fetch more ball for the runners. This has been an issue for a long time, with McClean brought in as potential solution, and Curnow. No one yet has filled the hole.

You could make a case that we lack another tall defender, but Bower seems to be doing all right so far, and was far from worst against the Saints.

My worry is that the club has known about these fairly obvious holes in the list, but hasn't been able to do much about it. Mitchell constantly going down doesnt help either. We all know how the McClean trade has turned out.

Can we take the next step without addressing these holes? Can we lure another quality insider over the trade period? Will Mitchell come good this year, or is it a write-off for him?
 

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le dominateur

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#3
IMO our recruiting and Ratten's gameplan has focussed on agile running types, need more big bodied players with grunt to take the next step. Even players like Tuohy looked bigger last year.
 
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#4
Needs

1. A big bodied, strong inside midfielder.
2. A big bodied, strong contested marking foward.
3. One or 2 quality small defenders.
4. Accountability.
5. A game plan
 
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#5
you are a spud if you think we need another inside mid,ellard an curnow,armfield are fine, the bombers have howlett,west coast kerr, our three are on a par with afl standard...

get some games into the young talls asap,last night the backline offered little going the other way throw a kid in see if he can offer something> the two MACS
 

Tanks_Alot

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#6
you are a spud if you think we need another inside mid,ellard an curnow,armfield are fine, the bombers have howlett,west coast kerr, our three are on a par with afl standard...

get some games into the young talls asap,last night the backline offered little going the other way throw a kid in see if he can offer something> the two MACS
You're the spud, an inside mid is definetely what we need, ahead of anything else.

Clearances continuously keep getting smashed, no one blocks for Judd or Murphy, Curnow & McLean are not up to it, Army plays a tagging role and along with Ellard is too small to throw his weight around.
 
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#7
You're the spud, an inside mid is definetely what we need, ahead of anything else.

Clearances continuously keep getting smashed, no one blocks for Judd or Murphy, Curnow & McLean are not up to it, Army plays a tagging role and along with Ellard is too small to throw his weight around.

ehhhh no dude, ellard is 1kg less then howlett an same size as kerr... :rolleyes:

list is fine,paul roos could win a flag with this team/list
 
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#9
Last year there was a general consensus, from outside, but also within the club, that we;

1) lacked a second deep forward or tall forward option. Hammer seems partly to have filled that void, but it remains a real concern.

2) lacked a quality inside mid that might fetch more ball for the runners. This has been an issue for a long time, with McClean brought in as potential solution, and Curnow. No one yet has filled the hole.

You could make a case that we lack another tall defender, but Bower seems to be doing all right so far, and was far from worst against the Saints.

My worry is that the club has known about these fairly obvious holes in the list, but hasn't been able to do much about it. Mitchell constantly going down doesnt help either. We all know how the McClean trade has turned out.

Can we take the next step without addressing these holes? Can we lure another quality insider over the trade period? Will Mitchell come good this year, or is it a write-off for him?
Friends tell me he plays this week.
 

BLue_Bloys

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#11
Ellard to be about 5cm taller and 5 KG heavier.

That's it, we lack another good big bodied inside mid option...(Hello Brock McLean)

Our biggest problem last night was Murphy was well held and without Carrazzo we lacked a player to complement Judd.

McLean can't be any more of a liability than Curnow imo
 

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No1Suspect

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#12
Our Mitchell Watson McCarthy draft has hurt us, should of staggered the kpp over a couple of drafts. We got Laidler.. Should of taken mid with our other pick in the 30's because really we have to wait 4-5 years for those boys to come of age and our depth is suffering because of it.

Maybe with our links to the bikies, we could bring some of them down to training to toughen us up :cool:
 

Loramarthalas

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Thread starter #13
That's a good point about Mitchell, Watson, and McCarthy. Maybe it would have been smart to have taken a mid with one of those picks, provided there was there to take that was worth a pick.

The flip side to that is that having taken three talls, it seems probable that at least one of them will make it. Hopefully Mitchell. Watson should at the very least develop into a decent depth player.

Maybe someone on the list can take on the role of insider mid? Can Ellard make it work in that role? Sure looked like he could last night.
 

Tanks_Alot

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#14
ehhhh no dude, ellard is 1kg less then howlett an same size as kerr... :rolleyes:

list is fine,paul roos could win a flag with this team/list
ehhhh dude, Kerr is more talented than Ellard there's no comparison.

And no point to compare him to the clearance and contested possession king :rolleyes: Howlett either.

We need a tough inside mid with SKILL and SPEED. 2 would be even better.
 

Jimthegreat

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#16
MC needs to be better. Playing too many blokes out of form. That catches up with you after a while. Two tall marking options plus a resting ruckman., Most top sides have that. Best we have for now is Waite, Thornton, who's a terrific contested mark, and resting ruckman. Like better but be don't have it but what we have can do a job.

Maybe more use of Betts at the stoppages. When used there at times the other week he did well, his hands were so clean in traffic. Duigan, Garlett and Joseph at least need a rest this week, they're playing poorly. There may be more too. Gibbs then can spend more time forward.

Just better team selection and better use of what we have. We don't necessarily have a lot of soft players but we are playing soft, and at times, lazy football. We've been caught unawares, hence not switched on, twice now this year for the opposition coming hard at us.
 

No1Suspect

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#17
That's a good point about Mitchell, Watson, and McCarthy. Maybe it would have been smart to have taken a mid with one of those picks, provided there was there to take that was worth a pick.

The flip side to that is that having taken three talls, it seems probable that at least one of them will make it. Hopefully Mitchell. Watson should at the very least develop into a decent depth player.

Maybe someone on the list can take on the role of insider mid? Can Ellard make it work in that role? Sure looked like he could last night.
Dropped his name before. Luke Parker #40 to the swans.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
 

T2B_

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#18
Ellard to be about 5cm taller and 5 KG heavier.
Agreed.

The boy can play, tries his absolute guts out and is as good as any mid at sneaking forward to get shots at goal (and is efficient).

Just a shame he wasn't blessed with a body that could consistently go up against big AFL bodies.:( Could have done with him starting last night though instead of sub. He really added something to the stoppages.
 

le dominateur

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#19
Our Mitchell Watson McCarthy draft has hurt us, should of staggered the kpp over a couple of drafts. We got Laidler.. Should of taken mid with our other pick in the 30's because really we have to wait 4-5 years for those boys to come of age and our depth is suffering because of it.

Maybe with our links to the bikies, we could bring some of them down to training to toughen us up :cool:
Ha, classic:thumbsu:
Jeanne Pratt looks tougher than some of our players last night.
 

Tish

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#21
Last night showed how much we missed Warnock, our rucking duo was pathetic, a bunch of hit outs, but didn't get a palm down to any of our players.


Worst calls on Ellard though, the guy is a genuine gun, clerence machine. Sub that fraud in Joseph off (Who i never want to see in the navy blue ever again) and he almost gets us back in the game.
 
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#22
Its amazing what a summer of weights can do to a side ..look at Adelaide and Essendon ..both teams have gone the Geelong path bigger stronger bodies ...no coincidence there ...There is a pack of players around each contest now so having players who are strong enough in the contest to keep there feet when getting confronted by sides presses etc... we fall over and we cant get the ball to outside runners if we cant be strong over the ball and keep our feet then sorry we are no chance of going deep into the finals....Unfortunately our match committee who all get very highly paid have been unable to address the issues just thinking that having number 1 draft picks will solve all problems...Not quite ...you need to have a development plan and strategy to win a flag not sit back and wait for players just to improve themselves....
 

gbatman

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#23
Our weaknesses are clear.

1. End of year clean out. I can think of quite a few who aren't up to it, if it's a strong draft like I have heard then we need to go for it and our recruiting direction needs to change a little.

2. We need to scrap the tall midfielder/flanker plan that has seen us draft a heap of average 188-190cm players. Forget the athlete status to an extent without going for slow ones. We need to draft specialist onballers who are solidly built or at least look like they will mature into a strong solid body. We must steer clear of flankers and wingers and light weights early in the draft and go for players who can rove and who are hard at at and have the correct build.

We don't lack 1 decent strong onballer we lack 2.

3. Tall forward. We should be playing and Teaching Watson the role. Lets also hope Mitchell comes good. Should be looking for another tall forward but as a later pick in this years draft.

4. Preseason training weights program. Honestly are we trying to remain a light side? Essendon went all out at building muscle and strength with the knowlege that you need to do this excessively in the off season to make up for what they will lose during the season and it's improved them significantly. We turned up looking like marathon runners. Sure we can run but our players lack strength and bulk. There is a long list of guys who get pushed off their line, don't break tackles to get the ball away properly, don't win one on ones and get out muscled generally and it needs to improve.

5. Get ourselves into the first and second round of the draft. Trade time should see up net at least 1 first round draft pick and 1 second round draft pick, that is if we are right about the strength of the draft.

6. Game style. Just a sheere lack of protection against the long kick out of defence, we get exposed out the back of this forward press we try poorly to implement. Also there is never a forward target when we break quickly from defence, what a disgrace and what a waste of time going long up the guts and moving it quickly is. We are also a typical john barker coached forward line, kicking to the pockets. Yeah I know what we are trying to achieve doing this but it's not overly effective. The ball is still coming out of our forward line far too easily. Our center square work is deplorable, we are the easiest team in the league to get clearances against. I think we are all out of ideas in this area and need a new coach for the midfield. Mclean needs to be played and we need to figure out how to make his lack of pace a non-liability. Collingwood figured out how to use Ball, we need to do the same.
 

Kramer1

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#24
5. Get ourselves into the first and second round of the draft. Trade time should see up net at least 1 first round draft pick and 1 second round draft pick, that is if we are right about the strength of the draft.
The sequential nature of the draft system should also be of some assistance here.
 

Tanks_Alot

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#25
The sequential nature of the draft system should also be of some assistance here.
I think he means an additional first and second round pick.

I'm not against this idea though, Judd is approaching 30, Scotland already could be his last season, Simmo and Carrots getting older, we will need to rejig our midfield in a couple years, can't rely on what we have now we need some real class to replace players of that calibre.

I really am not opposed to giving Gibbs up to GWS IF he doesn't improve and have a break out season and we get a couple of first rounders for him.
 
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