List Mgmt. List design 2022

Remove this Banner Ad

Chrispiesssss

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 31, 2014
9,154
12,255
AFL Club
Collingwood
I have just had a look at our list and as at the start of 2022 season:

18 - 24 : 27 players

25- 28 : 10 players

29 + : 7 players

The concerning bit is that 6 of the 7 players aged 29 and over are still in our best / important 10 players. Pendles, Roughead, Sidebottom, Howe, Mihocek & Elliot.

Only Cox is a miss.

We really need the middle group to turn into superstars of the game over the next few years. Grundy, De Goey & Moore mostly. Maynard & Crisp just lift to AA standard. Blokes like WHE, Cameron & Madgen need to be pushed out of the team.

Our baby Pies hold the key to our 20’s success. You would think we would need at least 4 stars from the 27 players and hopefully about overall 10 -12 serviceable players.

Lipinski, Henry, IQ, Macrae, Daicos x 2 are probably 6 players that you could absolutely bank on.

No Star potential on any of the 6 just yet. However, hopefully Henry & N.Daicos can change that.

I’m obviously quite bullish on Poulter. I also think Draper will make it. Bianco & Ruscoe showed signs last year. Ginni did a few impressive things. Reef has big wraps.

However, not surprisingly we don’t have a KPP in the young 27 that we could say will be in our best 22 for the years to come. This is seriously concerning when we are relying on Krueger, McMahon, Begg, Johnson, W.Kelly & Keane to be our spine for the next decade.

How do we address this major list issue? We ideally need at least 2 of the above young KPPs to make it.

I’m hoping we draft a KPP in the rookie draft tomorrow. Hopefully, we can find a star Key Forward next year.

Looking at 2023 is scary or 2022 with the Collingwood injury curse. Who’s gonna partner Moore/ Roughead in the backline? Keane is too small. Kelly is always injured.

KPP generally take longer to develop too. In 3-4 years time, when we are pushing for a premiership, we need a KPF who’s been in the system for at least 4 years.

Do we splurge on Ben King next year or head to the draft?
 
Last edited:

Trickster

Club Legend
Jul 27, 2014
2,024
2,178
AFL Club
Collingwood
Other Teams
New Orleans Saints
Good post. We do have an imbalanced list. We're also lacking in 23-25 year olds, players who have just ticked over 100 games to start pushing the older guys out.

And yes, lacking key talls in general but in that bracket also.

So important we nail last years draft plus this and next also.

And then how things pan out with DeGoey too.
 

Log in to remove this ad.

gouki88

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 3, 2020
6,710
9,840
AFL Club
Collingwood
Other Teams
Boston Celtics, Liverpool
I think expecting Grundy, Moore and De Goey to be superstars, while Bruz & Crisp "just" reach AA level is probably a bit hopeful. That's 5 AA level guys alongside Adams and Pendlebury.

I feel like if we can turn De Goey into a jet youngster we'll be happy, if all the noise about him being upset with Collingwood is legit. The age group between young and old is where we're sorely lacking, but we have a lot of young up and coming talent.
 

Chrispiesssss

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 31, 2014
9,154
12,255
AFL Club
Collingwood
Good post. We do have an imbalanced list. We're also lacking in 23-25 year olds, players who have just ticked over 100 games to start pushing the older guys out.

And yes, lacking key talls in general but in that bracket also.

So important we nail last years draft plus this and next also.

And then how things pan out with DeGoey too.
Imagine losing De Goey next year and then picking up 2 young KPPs with our multiple top 5 picks.
 

Chrispiesssss

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 31, 2014
9,154
12,255
AFL Club
Collingwood
I think expecting Grundy, Moore and De Goey to be superstars, while Bruz & Crisp "just" reach AA level is probably a bit hopeful. That's 5 AA level guys alongside Adams and Pendlebury.

I feel like if we can turn De Goey into a jet youngster we'll be happy, if all the noise about him being upset with Collingwood is legit. The age group between young and old is where we're sorely lacking, but we have a lot of young up and coming talent.
Most great / premiership teams have at least 3 superstar players who are difference makers.
Dees- Petrecca, Oliver, Gawn
Tigers - Martin, Grimes, Lynch
Dogs - Bont, Naughton, Macrae

Grundy is our superstar atm. Moore & De Goey show great glimpses. They just need to be more consistent.

Crisp & Maynard can have AA potential in their absolute best seasons.

Obviously, this is the ideal situation.
 

whiskeytown

Premiership Player
Nov 16, 2014
4,079
6,192
AFL Club
Collingwood
Would also like to an analysis based on height.

Seems like the list has only gotten shorter... which only exacerbates the holes we have regarding a lack of developing and mature 190cm + (non midfield) players on the list
 

Scodog10

Brownlow Medallist
Jul 25, 2008
20,895
32,621
The Linc
AFL Club
Collingwood
Other Teams
Oakland Raiders
Age on its own is irrelevant, IMO. The real kicker is positional coverage by both age and quality. We were always going short last night on the basis of the age profile of our midfield and the overall quality*. The next step is taller in 2022 at which point we can take stock of where the rebuild is at with three drafts of data to work through.

*That’s not to say the 4 guys we brought in were mids in the short or long term rather that’s their preferred position. I expect we’ll see a few of them start and possibly finish on flanks.
 

slugger01

Club Legend
Sep 7, 2015
1,366
1,868
AFL Club
Collingwood
Would also like to an analysis based on height.

Seems like the list has only gotten shorter... which only exacerbates the holes we have regarding a lack of developing and mature 190cm + (non midfield) players on the list
Up to 183cm (Up to 6.0ft) - 11 players
184-193cms (>6'.0" - 6'4") - 21 players
194 - 199cms (>6'.4" - 6'.6") - 6 players
> 200cms (>6'6") - 5 players.
 

gouki88

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 3, 2020
6,710
9,840
AFL Club
Collingwood
Other Teams
Boston Celtics, Liverpool
Most great / premiership teams have at least 3 superstar players who are difference makers.
Dees- Petrecca, Oliver, Gawn
Tigers - Martin, Grimes, Lynch
Dogs - Bont, Naughton, Macrae

Grundy is our superstar atm. Moore & De Goey show great glimpses. They just need to be more consistent.

Crisp & Maynard can have AA potential in their absolute best seasons.

Obviously, this is the ideal situation.
I'm not holding my breath about De Goey. I reckon Moore is already a Rance-level superstar defender. The second coming of Christ (Nick Daicos) will be the third :D
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

sr36

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 20, 2009
28,508
39,457
Vietnam
AFL Club
Collingwood
Age on its own is irrelevant, IMO. The real kicker is positional coverage by both age and quality. We were always going short last night on the basis of the age profile of our midfield and the overall quality*. The next step is taller in 2022 at which point we can take stock of where the rebuild is at with three drafts of data to work through.

*That’s not to say the 4 guys we brought in were mids in the short or long term rather that’s their preferred position. I expect we’ll see a few of them start and possibly finish on flanks.
I think pace was our biggest list weakness - really glad we targeted it.
 

Mike Olotripo

Team Captain
Nov 15, 2019
557
593
AFL Club
Collingwood
Just looking at our list. You know that our salary cap situation is totally stuffed when John Noble is not on our senior list.

I also am intrigued as to how he remains on the rookie list considering 3 years is the maximum time one can spend on a rookie list and considering this will be his 4th year (if you include 2019) and he is contracted until the end of 2022. Even if that first year he got picked up in the mid-season draft (2019) doesn't count towards years on the rookie list, he still wouldn't be eligible next season.

Odd situation considering I'd have thought he has well and truly earned his stripes to be on our senior list considering he's played for the majority of the last two seasons in the senior side.
 

Mollythedolly

Senior List
Oct 21, 2021
170
173
AFL Club
Collingwood
Just looking at our list. You know that our salary cap situation is totally stuffed when John Noble is not on our senior list.

I also am intrigued as to how he remains on the rookie list considering 3 years is the maximum time one can spend on a rookie list and considering this will be his 4th year (if you include 2019) and he is contracted until the end of 2022. Even if that first year he got picked up in the mid-season draft (2019) doesn't count towards years on the rookie list, he still wouldn't be eligible next season.

Odd situation considering I'd have thought he has well and truly earned his stripes to be on our senior list considering he's played for the majority of the last two seasons in the senior side.
Wow.

Firstly, if the $80-90k TPP savings we get for retaining Noble on the Rookie list is the savior of our TPP then we are well and truly f$&#ed.

Secondly, AFL issued a notification permitting the retention of Rookies on the Rookie list for a 4th year for the 2022 season. Similar to the allowance last year for clubs to move players to the Rookie list from the Senior list.

Retaining Noble on the Rookie list instead of promoting him makes 3/5’s of FA difference to him, his earning capacity, or his capacity to play senior footy. The epitome of making mountains out of molehills.
 
Last edited:

Vinnie Vegas

Brownlow Medallist
Oct 8, 2004
11,923
2,725
AFL Club
Collingwood
Other Teams
Collingwood VFL
The concerning bit is that 6 of the 7 players aged 29 and over are still in our best / important 10 players. Pendles, Roughead, Sidebottom, Howe, Mihocek & Elliot.
You're looking at this from the wrong perspective - Of course those guys are still important to the team (though I think you might be overstating the importance of Roughead, as much as I love him) because you wouldn't keep old players who are no good on your list.

Pendles is a generational player that you're always going to miss when they're gone. We do, however, have a list of talented young midfielders we can hope to replace him with, like Daicos, Macrae, McInnes.

Roughead I mentioned, but guys like Will Kelly, Mark Keane and Charlie Dean can feel free to fight over his spot, and if they can't manage the role, tall shut-down backs usually aren't that hard to acquire.

Sidebottom has slipped pretty significantly in recent years and I don't think he necessarily presents a level of ability now that we don't have other players able to replicate - Poulter/Daicoses/Bianco.

Howe is still one of our better defenders, but we've played a bunch without him honestly, and I think the younger cattle to replace him are potentially already on the list. Quaynor/Ruscoe/Murphy/Wilson.

Mihocek we can hope that Kreuger/McMahon/Begg can eventually fill in for, it'll just be a matter of seeing who it is that steps up.

Elliott we definitely have a lot of candidates to replace - Henry/Johnson/Ginnivan/McCreery/Draper/Murley. Elliott's terrific when he's on, but ultimately he's a guy who's never kicked more than 35 goals in a season. Sad to say that in 2018 when he was out the whole season, we had 4 different small/medium forwards kick more goals than Jamie in his best season, so to consider him irreplaceable is a little bit fanciful, even though I like him a lot.
 

whiskeytown

Premiership Player
Nov 16, 2014
4,079
6,192
AFL Club
Collingwood
I think the list is still very much in transition.

There are a few names that remain on the list that could’ve been cut this year too but are getting a final go... GW would’ve seen them a bit... but McRae and co haven’t

Murphy, Keane, Magden, Wilson, Noble, both Brown bros... pretty vulnerable given the players brought in the last two years, and as all have spent at least 3-4 years on the list and not cemented a place.

^ The problem with cutting too many in this group though is that it further imbalances the 22-26 year old demographics

Of the older players WHE, Cox both seem like they are a year to year disposition at this point. A poor year from either and they are gone.

And I could easily see one of Pendlebury, Sidebottom, Howe or Roughead hang up the boots at the end of next year if they get a nasty injury

Could see as many as 6 cut/trade/retire at the end of next year... replaced with draftees... and a couple more mature 22 and over players (akin to Kreuger and Lipinski) bought in to help balance things
 
Last edited:

Chrispiesssss

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 31, 2014
9,154
12,255
AFL Club
Collingwood
You're looking at this from the wrong perspective - Of course those guys are still important to the team (though I think you might be overstating the importance of Roughead, as much as I love him) because you wouldn't keep old players who are no good on your list.

Pendles is a generational player that you're always going to miss when they're gone. We do, however, have a list of talented young midfielders we can hope to replace him with, like Daicos, Macrae, McInnes.

Roughead I mentioned, but guys like Will Kelly, Mark Keane and Charlie Dean can feel free to fight over his spot, and if they can't manage the role, tall shut-down backs usually aren't that hard to acquire.

Sidebottom has slipped pretty significantly in recent years and I don't think he necessarily presents a level of ability now that we don't have other players able to replicate - Poulter/Daicoses/Bianco.

Howe is still one of our better defenders, but we've played a bunch without him honestly, and I think the younger cattle to replace him are potentially already on the list. Quaynor/Ruscoe/Murphy/Wilson.

Mihocek we can hope that Kreuger/McMahon/Begg can eventually fill in for, it'll just be a matter of seeing who it is that steps up.

Elliott we definitely have a lot of candidates to replace - Henry/Johnson/Ginnivan/McCreery/Draper/Murley. Elliott's terrific when he's on, but ultimately he's a guy who's never kicked more than 35 goals in a season. Sad to say that in 2018 when he was out the whole season, we had 4 different small/medium forwards kick more goals than Jamie in his best season, so to consider him irreplaceable is a little bit fanciful, even though I like him a lot.
I completely understand and agree with what you’re saying. However, the heavy reliance on the blokes mentioned above are a huge risk. If 3/4 of the above players miss majority of the season, we will finish bottom 2 again. Imagine Pendles, Howe and Elliot miss most of the season and we will finish bottom 2.
 

Remove this Banner Ad

Remove this Banner Ad