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Recruiting List Development 2017 - How do we develop our list?

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eth-dog said:
Honestly think he has had a better year this year than Luke Ryan did last year (who was very overrated on FigBooty). Bewley is basically Hind with another 7 kilos at a guess and better kicking skills.
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If he's an upgrade on Hind then he would definitely be worth looking at.

I like Hind's aggression so I think somebody may take a chance on him.
 
Killer_Mike said:
If he's an upgrade on Hind then he would definitely be worth looking at.

I like Hind's aggression so I think somebody may take a chance on him.
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Absolutely. I don't see him going ND but if he's there with our second RD pick I'm taking him without hesitation
 
eth-dog said:
Honestly think he has had a better year this year than Luke Ryan did last year (who was very overrated on FigBooty). Bewley is basically Hind with another 7 kilos at a guess and better kicking skills.
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Luke Ryan put together the best season from an under 21 since Hibberd in the VFL.

Bewley is on a similar level to Hind. Just very different players. One is a bull, the other a runner. One is a kicker, the other is a run and carry.

Depends what sort of player we would want is what player we recruit. (fwiw, think Hind could make it, just not with us)
 
Yoda_ said:
Luke Ryan put together the best season from an under 21 since Hibberd in the VFL.

Bewley is on a similar level to Hind. Just very different players. One is a bull, the other a runner. One is a kicker, the other is a run and carry.

Depends what sort of player we would want is what player we recruit. (fwiw, think Hind could make it, just not with us)
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Ryan had a good year no doubt, and I rated him. However I saw people talking him up as a 2nd round prospect which was ridiculous. He was always a late 3rd round prospect at best. In this draft I probably would take him mid 3rd round but not in last year's draft.
 

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Yoda_ said:
Feel the club is at the cross roads with where they feel the list is at.

Do we go all out and grab a gun to be or develop within?

Personally feel the latter, we have always developed from within
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I probably would not have used the word 'crossroads' because it carries a bit of a negative connotation but I know what you mean.

A week out from the finals it feels like we're so close to being a real contender (which is more than likely beyond us this year) but we've also got a few holes/imbalances on the list which we should address. I think it's more complex than working out whether to use our first round pick to bring in an 18 year old or to bring in someone who can make an immediate impact next year. Our midfield problem is not solved by the inclusion of a gun, we're going to need to add three or four quality players (some of whom are already in the best 22 or on the list).

What we did during the supplements saga is aggressively cull the kids recruited between 2009 and 2012 to free up list spots and we then lost Carlisle, Hibberd, Melksham and Crameri as well. To the extent that we didn't just de-list players we've lost what would be quality 24-26 year olds and replaced them with kids. It means that we've got quite a substantial gap, almost a missing generation of players, on the list.

As it stands our depth is coming from a few suspect middle aged player, veterans who (despite past quality) are of very limited usefulness and first and second year players. The problem almost becomes compounded next year because you'd expect that Laverde, Langford and Begley are all best 22 (almost by default) and we'll still have a lot of players in the development group (who generally are not seen as ready AFL players). Ideally Jack Merrett would have a few contemporaries who are capable AFL players.

While we can fill a best 22 with three key position players at each end we fall away very quickly after that. We could do with investing some list spots in key position players to develop for the long term. You don't recruit key position players when you need them because by that stage it's already too late.

I think that there is definitely scope to add a few younger guys from other clubs who are capable of having an impact next year (and they'd be necessarily speculative). I wouldn't want to see us load up with free agents and older guys from other clubs.
 
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Yoda_ said:
That "negative conotation" I used earlier is even more apt.

We can either plug holes as we feel we are close to being a contender or we take a step backward in 2018 (and develop the kids we bloody well recruited) for a genuine crack in 2019 and onwards.
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We almost certainly wont do it but we just have to allow ourselves to take the plunge into the unknown that is relying on kids both in the best 22 and as depth. It doesn't have to be a step back and I don't think that it would be.
 
From an age demographic perspective, I think a few established players in the 23-26 year old range is what we need, not exactly sure who that would be though.
 
jsd09 said:
From an age demographic perspective, I think a few established players in the 23-26 year old range is what we need, not exactly sure who that would be though.
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We do but they're hard players to add because unless they're free agents they'll cost a lot at the trade table. If they're not they're pretty average players.

I think a better option would be trying to nab a few 21-22 year olds that we think we could get the best out of (e.g. Jesse Lonergan for the middle and maybe Wigg at half back).
 
BrunoV said:
We almost certainly wont do it but we just have to allow ourselves to take the plunge into the unknown that is relying on kids both in the best 22 and as depth. It doesn't have to be a step back and I don't think that it would be.
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Would love us to back in McGrath, Parish, Laverde, Langford, Begley, etc to be a large part of our midfield next year.
Happy to just go to the draft. Think people are afraid of the unknown.
 

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Yoda_ said:
That "negative conotation" I used earlier is even more apt.

We can either plug holes as we feel we are close to being a contender or we take a step backward in 2018 (and develop the kids we bloody well recruited) for a genuine crack in 2019 and onwards.
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I agree with this line of thinking. The teams we named week to week in 2017 are what you would expect from a team that is in serious contention. I think there are many arguments as to whether that was appropriate in the circumstances but in any case we only gave games to the youth that was 100% AFL ready. We may need to go back in 2018 to go forward.

Unfortunately though we are still quite a ways off the top teams and we need to develop some more quality players for us to go anywhere. Ideally we give the likes of Langford, Laverde, Francis, Mutch and Begley good opportunities next year. Stop throwing games to Howlett/Bird/Hocking/Dea etc when you know that they are taking us nowhere and we have other guys that could play at a similar level but with much greater prospects.

Chasing wins now by playing experienced players that are average or below AFL players will only leave us chasing tail when we get to big matches and are found wanting like on the weekend.
 
BrunoV said:
I hope that yesterday emphasises for fans that we're not a Martin or Kelly away from being a challenger. I also hope that it brings the football department 'back to the drawing board'.

It would be a strange thing for a side like ours to continue to plug holes with veterans as though we are in touching distance of being able to do something meaningful.
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Agreed. Looks like the supplements scandal will have an ongoing impact long term.

Add back in the players we would have drafted and hibberd, Ryder, Carlyle, heck even milkshake with how he's played and we'd be looking ok.

Has dodoro botched it with Aron Morgan, mason redman, laverde, Langford, Francis and Jackson Merrett?

If so surely it's a big re-build?


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Hate to say it but I'm worried about our list again. The most concerning thing from Saturday was ambrose and Hartley. Secondly the inside midfield problem is a lot worse than we thought. Neither of these issues can be fixed overnight.

So much rides on Francis, Langford and laverde turning things around but even if all three turn it around we need to find a good big key defender or forward AND a couple of really good big bodied inside mids. Where from though :(

Am I missing something/being too negative?


On iPad using BigFooty.com mobile app
 
ezard15 said:
Hate to say it but I'm worried about our list again. The most concerning thing from Saturday was ambrose and Hartley. Secondly the inside midfield problem is a lot worse than we thought. Neither of these issues can be fixed overnight.

So much rides on Francis, Langford and laverde turning things around but even if all three turn it around we need to find a good big key defender or forward AND a couple of really good big bodied inside mids. Where from though :(

Am I missing something/being too negative?


On iPad using BigFooty.com mobile app
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While the loss was instructive and highlighted where we need to be, I think it's a little dangerous to over react. It was one game with a lot of young players, many of whom were playing their first final as well as a few guys who were on their way out the door. Most of the side, and even the leaders, exhibited a real lack of composure, which I would put down to being in their first final and a lack of experience. Hurley didn't look right, Fantasia hadn't played for 5 weeks, the absence of Hooker denied the side the structure that made the forward line so potent this year and it was on that postage stamp called the SCG. I thought Hartley did ok while Ambrose, for mine, never really recaptured his form after his 10 weeks out, or whatever it was. I also wondered whether JD was still affected by hyper-extending his knee in round 20 against the blues. Also, I wouldn't underestimate the negative effects of being out of the game for so long for some of the banned players in the side and maybe this was related to the inconsistency of players like Myers, Colyer and TBC. For instance, how many times did we need to rest Watson during the season.
 
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People need to remember you can only clear out so many list spots in one season. Especially if the draft isn't rated highly in terms of later picks/no gettable quality players from other clubs.

Confirmed outs: Watson, Kelly, Stanton and Eades (Rookie).
Potential outs: Hocking, Bird, Howlett, Jackson Merrett, Morgan, Long (Rookie), McKernan (Rookie).
1 year deal: Green, Baguley and Goddard (tigger clause for 1 year met).
Multi year deal or trade: McKenna

As a maximum I'd say the club uses 4 picks in the national draft, 3 in the rookie draft and 4 on players from other AFL clubs (Trade, free agency or delisted free agents). Then all the potential outs are delisted.

As a minimum 3 picks in the national draft, 2 in the rookie draft and 3 from other AFL clubs.
Therefore 2 senior listed players and 1 rookie listed player in the potential outs stays on the list on 1 year deals. The ones that are retained simply comes down to whether the club thinks it can find a replacement for the position they play. Example if a suitable backup ruck/fwd is available then McKernan is delisted, if not he stays.
 

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Hey Dons fans, I've written an article about your list situation and I reckon many of you will enjoy it, it's quite positive - I reckon your kids stack up against any other team in the league.

You can read it here.

Kudos to the persons managing the contracts thread, it came in handy while writing.

Mods please move or delete this post if not appropriate here.
 
Interesting read. Agree with most of what you said, just don't believe that someone like Naughton fits the bill for us seeing as Hurley has 5 years after this, Ambrose probably something similar and Hartley up to 8 years left in him. I'd be looking at a young key forward in all honesty
 
Fun reading the last few pages.
The improvement on the inside comes from skills, structures, specific endurance, weight gain, experience and most of all mindset.
(plus everything else I missed which now results in me being completely wrong)
Compare us to Sydney they win in every aspect.

Some players really need to work on their mindset on and off the field. Players like Langford, laverde and Francis need to fast track this. Whether it's exhaustion, knowledge or controlling their mindset letting them down they can become definite best 22 with a better mindset. To get better and win a final, this area has the most room for improvement and can be achieved by the start of next season.
It's exhausting week in week out to have the endurance to never give in, be relentless and keep on keepin on but it's the obvious difference between winning the midfield battle. To an extent it doesn't matter the mix of players to win the inside game but they must have the mindset foremost and a mixture of skill, structure and endurance. Look at the individuals and midfield units of the past premiership teams they all differentiate drastically.
 
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End of year player ratings.

4 in the top 100 this year but with potential for another 3 or 4 next year.

That would put us in the top four teams.

The most pleasing thing about that list is how young we are. Only Goddard past his peak.

upload_2017-9-22_8-28-18.png
 
Killer_Mike said:
End of year player ratings.

4 in the top 100 this year but with potential for another 3 or 4 next year.

That would put us in the top four teams.

The most pleasing thing about that list is how young we are. Only Goddard past his peak.

View attachment 418853
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Also because of the year off guys like Hooker, Heppell and Hurley should be in the top 100 aswell
 

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