List Mgmt. List Management Discussion for 2021

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TallyHawk

Premiership Player
Jun 12, 2010
4,925
4,742
Bunbartha
AFL Club
Hawthorn
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Cousins is a VFL standard player, our next two years draft picks will render him a list clogger. The time is now to make way.

Greaves isn’t quick enough to play as a small defender and has looked fumbly at AFL level.
Morris will most likely supersede him.
Agreed re Cousins recent form might drive up trade currency to a 3rd round pick.


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darthmann

Premiership Player
Jun 11, 2013
3,436
8,798
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Hawthorn
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Not on the list of out of contract players on afl.com.au
people will probably whinge and moan if we retain him but if it isn't him its gonna be some bloke taken in the depths of the draft that is just as unlikely, if not more so, to ever even play a game at AFL level. Grass is greener...

who ******* cares if we have an elite physical prospect taking up the last spot on our list? if he never develops (which admittedly he probably wont) then its hardly a huge opportunity cost. If he does, then we have a scary fast, strong and big midfielder to play with through our next rise to the top.

There needs to, and will be, some major list turnover, but we absolutely shouldn't get hung up on individual players' statuses over the bigger picture. I think we'll easily have a changeover of 8, with or without moving on Nash and Morris.
 

smeltitdeltit

Premiership Player
Jul 2, 2012
3,241
4,649
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Yep, it was the fact that the ball was spilled while fending off

The umpire incorrectly interpreted the incorrect disposal rule. It is only when you are actually being tackled, not when 'fending off'.

The only time 'fending off' is a factor in holding the ball is that it is automatically considered prior opportunity if you are tackled.

sh*t, sh*t decision by the umpire.
I was annoyed at the time too, but isn’t the fens off deemed prior, and therefore having had prior, he didn’t legally dispose of the ball (dropping the ball)
I’d have to re-watch it.

edit: appears I’m wrong, has to be legally tackled.

18.6 HOLDING THE BALL
18.6.1 Spirit and Intention
The Player who has Possession of the Football will be provided an opportunity to dispose of the football before rewarding an opponent for a Legal Tackle.
18.6.2 Free Kicks - Holding the Ball: Prior Opportunity
Where a Player in Possession of the Football has had Prior Opportunity, a field Umpire shall
award a Free Kick if that Player does not Correctly Dispose of the football immediately when they are Legally Tackled.
18.6.3 Free Kicks - Holding the Ball: Incorrect Disposal
Where a Player in Possession of the Football has not had Prior Opportunity, a field
Umpire shall award a Free Kick if that Player elects to Incorrectly Dispose of the football when Legally Tackled.
For the avoidance of doubt, a Player does not elect to Incorrectly Dispose of the football when:
(a) the Player genuinely attempts to Correctly Dispose of the football;
(b) the Legal Tackle causes the football to be dislodged from the Player’s possession.
 

eldorado

Previously eldorado
Oct 18, 2003
14,260
34,430
Melbourne
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I was annoyed at the time too, but isn’t the fens off deemed prior, and therefore having had prior, he didn’t legally dispose of the ball (dropping the ball)
I’d have to re-watch it.
But then you would have to penalise every player if the ball slips out of their hand at any stage, wouldn't you?

A running bounce that didn't come back, for example? Remember Burgoyne's goal last year, where he dropped it, picked it up again, and scored a goal.

Hunt had prior when he dropped the ball, it was seen as irrelevant as he wasn't being tackled. (according to the umpire and commentators) He picked it up again, and scored a goal.
 

smeltitdeltit

Premiership Player
Jul 2, 2012
3,241
4,649
AFL Club
Hawthorn
But then you would have to penalise every player if the ball slips out of their hand at any stage, wouldn't you?

A running bounce that didn't come back, for example? Remember Burgoyne's goal last year, where he dropped it, picked it up again, and scored a goal.

Hunt had prior when he dropped the ball, it was seen as irrelevant as he wasn't being tackled. (according to the umpire and commentators) He picked it up again, and scored a goal.
Yeah just edited my post.
You can drop it except when tackled.
Unless it’s knocked out in the tackle. Which is ridiculous.
 

jenniferHAWKinS

Club Legend
Jul 6, 2015
2,059
4,611
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Retire: Burgoyne, Shiels?
Delist: Brooksby, Hartley, Nash and Pepper.
Trade, delist or retain as depth: Hanrahan, Greaves and Ceglar.
Trade or retain as depth: Howe, O’Brien and Cousins. Not best 22 at full strength.
One more year: Morris, Maginness.
 

Stratton24

Club Legend
Aug 29, 2003
2,357
4,102
Melbourne
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Retire: Burgoyne, Shiels?
Delist: Brooksby, Hartley, Nash and Pepper.
Trade, delist or retain as depth: Hanrahan, Greaves and Ceglar.
Trade or retain as depth: Howe, O’Brien and Cousins. Not best 22 at full strength.
One more year: Morris, Maginness.
Shiels and Nash have contracts for next season. Pepper can stay on the cat b list for one more year.
 

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darthmann

Premiership Player
Jun 11, 2013
3,436
8,798
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Hawthorn
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GSW
Contracted or not, the Box Hill write ups give the impression Mitchell is a bit of a Nash fan. I reckon he will stay.

My understanding was we were stuck with Ceglar for 2022
we may look for a Cegs trade but i have no issue with keeping him on the list and taking on the Kegs role for Box Hill and helping out Reevesy/Max Lynch if we do end up getting him
 

Nastyfish

Pirate
Sep 14, 2018
581
1,123
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Retire: Burgoyne, Shiels?
Delist: Brooksby, Hartley, Nash and Pepper.
Trade, delist or retain as depth: Hanrahan, Greaves and Ceglar.
Trade or retain as depth: Howe, O’Brien and Cousins. Not best 22 at full strength.
One more year: Morris, Maginness.
According to those dodgy ratbags at the HUN ... HAWTHORN
Out of contract (17): Lachie Bramble, Keegan Brooksby (UFA), Shaun Burgoyne (UFA), Jackson Callow, James Cousins, Damon Greaves, Ollie Hanrahan, Michael Hartley (UFA), Dan Howe, Emerson Jeka, Jacob Koschitzke, Finn Maginness, Dylan Moore (UFA), Harry Morrison, Tim O’Brien (UFA), Harry Pepper, Jack Saunders

Brooksby, Burgoyne, Hartley seem certain departures. That’s 3 out. Nash must be contracted or else you’d think he would be on the out as well.

TOB offers something but seems redundant in a rebuild if you’re ready to trust the kids up forward with a ruckman, and with Sicily, CJ returning down back, and also with gunner as a swingman. That’s 4 out.

Then it’s a toss up of maybe 3 out of cousins, greaves, hanrahan, Morrison, maginness, Saunders (not forgetting the rookie list option for the latter two). That’s 7 out.

Not likely to take more than 5 at the draft (picks 2, 21, 23, 56, 66 ) and maybe 1 psd are we? Plus a LT injury spot that needs to be covered due to the return of the prince (assuming we keep callow). That’s excluding any spaces created by players traded out for picks.

Howe I think still offers something.
 

Nastyfish

Pirate
Sep 14, 2018
581
1,123
AFL Club
Hawthorn
So we are stuck with Ceglar, Shiels and Nash for another year
Looks like it, unless they can be traded to a place prepared to offer 2+ years, or we delist and eat the salary. You might consider that for Nash but it doesn’t sent a great message given el presidents says the hawks always honour contracts!
 

Noel Gallagher

Club Legend
Oct 3, 2006
1,661
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So we are stuck with Ceglar, Shiels and Nash for another year
I’ll say this again... the direspect shown towards a three time premiership player who bleeds brown and gold staggers me to this day. He was never an A grade midfielder - always a B+Player who added great depth in our glory days. He has pretty much played at the same level since he was 18 years old (debuted at 17)

It’s like some supporters expected him to suddenly become an a grader in the last 3-4 years which he has never been
 

chopflop

All Australian
Nov 15, 2020
750
2,030
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Ceglar could net us an upgrade of an early fourth to a third so might be worth keeping another year in the brooksby role. No way should he be retained with the intention of being played.
 

jenniferHAWKinS

Club Legend
Jul 6, 2015
2,059
4,611
AFL Club
Hawthorn
I’ll say this again... the direspect shown towards a three time premiership player who bleeds brown and gold staggers me to this day. He was never an A grade midfielder - always a B+Player who added great depth in our glory days. He has pretty much played at the same level since he was 18 years old (debuted at 17)

It’s like some supporters expected him to suddenly become an a grader in the last 3-4 years which he has never been
No disrespect to Pup but he is getting more fumbly and dump kicking more. I personally think he should retire still playing good football instead of playing on next year and possibly finishing his career at Box Hill. An integral and massively underrated part of our 3peat but it’s time to transition younger players in to his role. His effort and leadership are still 1st rate.
 

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