List Mgmt. List Management Discussion for 2022

[Jazzfan]

Interesting conversation around 'talent'.

For mine competitiveness and self-drive aren't mutually exclusive when I consider a players talent. Like Jack Watts had 'talent'.

Sam Mitchell has mentioned so many times that he want's competitive players, look at him as a player... he's also mentioned plenty of times how he loves that Jai is self-driven, and that this is something that he's trying to work on with the playing list.

Thomas doesn't appear to be either overly competitive, or self-driven. He's been a frustrating player for North fans throughout because his application doesn't appear equal to his 'talent'.

The fact he has had four pre-seasons and is still hasn't got his tank to a level of playing midfield permanently speaks a fair bit to what I am saying regarding self-drive to be elite.

It's just not the type of player when going through a rebuild like we are that you would give up a decent first round pick for. Kidding ourselves if we think he's going to cost anything less than that.

 

[TylerDurden]

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

No, my definition is not confusing current output at all.

Its agreed that he has some level of talent but I don't think it is as high as what you're rating him. Again our definition of talent is clearly different because mine includes aspects of intensity and effort which he does lack and why he was dropped this year.

Twas meant to be a surprised react but ah well.

Your definition of talent is blatantly wrong, because your main consideration is current output. I don’t know how you could argue otherwise.


A 21 yr old who is above average at contested possession rate, pressure acts, etc clearly has exposed form with the right intensity and effort. You’re simply judging him on current output.

 

[chopflop]

Can you imagine the fapping here if Day kicked 4 goals, had 23 disposals, 5 clearances, 5 tackles, 7 inside 50’s and 9 score involvements?

I’d be leading the charge.

But remember, on the main board he is a spud.

 

[chopflop]

Despite the talk on TT, Bradshaw, bruhn etc wouldn’t be surprised if we actually ended up with a paddy Dow, Flanders etc type.

Which some will be disappointed in but we keep hitting draft and looking at cheap value based trades (scrim, Brodie, lynch, lipinski etc) is probably a better fit for where we are at.

Could paddy Dow be a will Brodie that just needs to ?

 

[Blackhawk42]

Could paddy Dow be a will Brodie that just needs to ?

Been given far more chances than Will Brodie ever was at the Gold Coast.

Firm no for mine.

Poor decision maker by foot also. We can't afford more of those players in our midfield.

 

[chopflop]

Been given far more chances than Will Brodie ever was at the Gold Coast.

Firm no for mine.

Poor decision maker by foot also. We can't afford more of those players in our midfield.

If you win clearances at a high rate, especially centre clearances, you could get a look in our side. Looking at his VFL form, that seems to be what he does.

 

[Blackhawk42]

If you win clearances at a high rate, especially centre clearances, you could get a look in our side. Looking at his VFL form, that seems to be what he does.

Like Tom Mitchell however, is a liability when attempting to do anything out of the ordinary.

We will get greater value trying a debuting Ned Long or recalling Finn Maginness to play the same role IMO. Not immediately, but in the long run.

Also keep in mind that we need to improve our midfield to challenge the better sides for 4 quarters. Dow notoriously fades out of games after strong starts. He's played over 50 games at the highest level and never improved in this area.

 

[PenAndPaper]

Your definition of talent is blatantly wrong, because your main consideration is current output. I don’t know how you could argue otherwise.


A 21 yr old who is above average at contested possession rate, pressure acts, etc clearly has exposed form with the right intensity and effort. You’re simply judging him on current output.

That is such a ridiculous thing to say, actually laughable, on a topic that is as subjective as talent.

Playing a good half season of football doesn't necessarily mean you've got immense talent, if that were the case Will Langford has immense talent after his 2014 season.

He obviously has some talent I just don't think it is to the level you think it is.

 

[chopflop]

Like Tom Mitchell however, is a liability when attempting to do anything out of the ordinary.

We will get greater value trying a debuting Ned Long or recalling Finn Maginness to play the same role IMO. Not immediately, but in the long run.

Also keep in mind that we need to improve our midfield to challenge the better sides for 4 quarters. Dow notoriously fades out of games after strong starts. He's played over 50 games at the highest level and never improved in this area.

He might not be en'dow'ed with a great tank. But either is Brodie. Hence the comp. Didn't know he had played 50 games though- that's not great.

Still not the worst as a moneyball type pick up. Jettison one of our current mids for a 2nd and pick him up for a future 4th.

 

[KermitJagger]

That is such a ridiculous thing to say, actually laughable, on a topic that is as subjective as talent.

Playing a good half season of football doesn't necessarily mean you've got immense talent, if that were the case Will Langford has immense talent after his 2014 season.

He obviously has some talent I just don't think it is to the level you think it is.

Effort and intensity are difficult to muster when your team is flogged most weeks, for almost any player.

That said, outside of this year Tarryn Thomas has always been an above average player in terms of his defensive efforts. It's hard to see how you're doing anything but judging him on current output.

 

[PenAndPaper]

Effort and intensity are difficult to muster when your team is flogged most weeks, for almost any player.

That said, outside of this year Tarryn Thomas has always been an above average player in terms of his defensive efforts. It's hard to see how you're doing anything but judging him on current output.

I don't necessarily disagree that he has put pressure on but he really picks and chooses when, which in turn relates to my definition of talent encompassing the ability to have that desire at all times. It's not just this season where he has done that.

Maybe it is the s**t form of the club and hating getting smashed every week that is making him pick and choose but there are plenty of elite talents that played at a s**t club that put in the effort and intensity every week, every contest.

 

[burner1]

He might not be en'dow'ed with a great tank. But either is Brodie. Hence the comp. Didn't know he had played 50 games though- that's not great.

Still not the worst as a moneyball type pick up. Jettison one of our current mids for a 2nd and pick him up for a future 4th.

Dow for a 4th seems a reasonable punt given our midfield. Especially if Mitchell and chad went. He’d possibly be our best clearence player under 28. Yes has some flaws - kicking, defence, transition play etc - but that’s why he’s cheap. But he has genuine burst speed that eg worpel lacks.

Ward/McDonald etc aren’t ready to play serious inside minutes - 12 months of seeing what Dow has in our system isn’t a horrible idea for the last spot on our list. And he’s only 22.

 

[FB19]

We were able to acquire a ready to go ruckman with upside (an absolute critical list management goal) and still retain a pick in every round. This gave us the flexibility to participate in future pick trading and stay in the draft if we chose not to but the list was unambiguously improved at fairly low cost to our draft hand so not sure what your issue is here.

Understand your point and that’s fair enough. I just feel like we are quite some way away when I plot our youth side and that it is pretty apparent we don’t have much trade capital to improve our draft hand. The icing on the cake is bloody Richmond after winning flags have a better draft hand than us for the second year in a row. Like I said I think we’ve got great value for our later, rookie mid season picks etc. hopeful for our first rounders and last years crop but feels like we need another 3 drafts of 3 top 30 picks to have built the foundation to compete again. We need a bit to go our way - the next few years of father sons may just be that unexpected luck we need like the pies have enjoyed.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

We were able to acquire a ready to go ruckman with upside (an absolute critical list management goal) and still retain a pick in every round. This gave us the flexibility to participate in future pick trading and stay in the draft if we chose not to but the list was unambiguously improved at fairly low cost to our draft hand so not sure what your issue is here.

We also obtained a possible Rising Star winning midfielder through last year's mid season draft as well as a ready to go bigger bodied defender and project ruckman in this year's mid season draft without having to use any national draft collateral each time. Collins, McKenzie and anyone else involved in those decisions have worked incredibly well at it. McKenzie deserves every bit of praise he gets - nowhere near as well known to the external AFL media as Wright was back in the day but just going about his job quietly and getting the runs on the board.

 

[Brishawk]

Can you imagine the fapping here if Day kicked 4 goals, had 23 disposals, 5 clearances, 5 tackles, 7 inside 50’s and 9 score involvements?

I’d be leading the charge.

Wrong coloured jumper. Clearly lacks talent

 

[theiaofseed]

Understand your point and that’s fair enough. I just feel like we are quite some way away when I plot our youth side and that it is pretty apparent we don’t have much trade capital to improve our draft hand. The icing on the cake is bloody Richmond after winning flags have a better draft hand than us for the second year in a row. Like I said I think we’ve got great value for our later, rookie mid season picks etc. hopeful for our first rounders and last years crop but feels like we need another 3 drafts of 3 top 30 picks to have built the foundation to compete again. We need a bit to go our way - the next few years of father sons may just be that unexpected luck we need like the pies have enjoyed.

25 and under team where do you see many holes?

 

[Ned Ryerson]

25 and under team where do you see many holes?

DGB is still very raw but I hold out hope he will develop into an absolute warrior down back who will hurt some people along the way.

Jury is out on Brockman for me. Has shown some amazing glimpses but nothing too consistent yet - injuries this year have not helped.

I don't think Kosi is a long-term solution up forward but happy to be proven wrong.

Crazy seeing Hardwick on that list. 116 games now too - just consistently consistent and only coming into his prime years.

 

[Billyc]

25 and under team where do you see many holes?

The midfield

 

[MasterSamurai]

Watch the Luke Hodge birthday vid from a day a go, there's a passage in a freo game where at a inside 50 stoppage, Lewis gets tackled but with strength he takes the tackle on but still with brute strength he releases Hodge with a handball who goes and nails it from 50 put on the Run!! A small easy to miss sample but that's exactly what we've been missing from stoppages since 2015-16! Lewis, Hodge, Burgoyne types that were brutal and skillful at the coal face!! Recruıt mids accordingly imo.

 

[theiaofseed]

The midfield

Worpel gets back to his best, Ward lives up to his potential, Day can successfully move into the midfield, already have Newcombe. That's a few things that need to go in our favour but so does every rebuild, it's not that far off.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Worpel gets back to his best, Ward lives up to his potential, Day can successfully move into the midfield, already have Newcombe. That's a few things that need to go in our favour but so does every rebuild, it's not that far off.

We need two genuinely game-breaking midfielders to revamp our midfield. It is still a way off but closer than we have been in a while. Newcombe can absolutely get to that level. Just need to draft another one - but they don't grow on trees sadly.

 

[Dewwwww]

We need two genuinely game-breaking midfielders to revamp our midfield. It is still a way off but closer than we have been in a while. Newcombe can absolutely get to that level. Just need to draft another one - but they don't grow on trees sadly.

Pick 4-6 this year should net another

 

[KermitJagger]

Watch the Luke Hodge birthday vid from a day a go, there's a passage in a freo game where at a inside 50 stoppage, Lewis gets tackled but with strength he takes the tackle on but still with brute strength he releases Hodge with a handball who goes and nails it from 50 put on the Run!! A small easy to miss sample but that's exactly what we've been missing from stoppages since 2015-16! Lewis, Hodge, Burgoyne types that were brutal and skillful at the coal face!! Recruıt mids accordingly imo.

I get what you mean but Hodge and Burgoyne were generational type players, no draft is guaranteed to have even one of them.

I agree that the midfield is where we should be putting all our chips right now.

 

[Jazzfan]

The midfield

If DGB doesn't end up being an elite key back we are in a bit of trouble also IMO... It's too early to say either way if we are being honest with ourselves, but he's the most important young player on our list for mine.

Blanck looked really good on debut. But again, you couldn't possibly pencil him in as a 200 gamer right now. And he's our next best long term option as it currently sits.

Sicily has been absolutely ridiculous this year, but he'll be even better when he can play his natural third defender role. Reminds me so much of Josh Gibson, and how he went to yet another level after we recruited Frawley.