Analysis List management errors

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Elite Crow

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So in other words we gave up pick20 and pick 7 for pick3. The way people were talking on here last year most would have done that deal. I know I know that last years draft was strong but is pick20 + pick 7 for pick 3 all that bad. What the real problem is the boys that we picked have over the last 3 years.

2018
Jones: hasnt given us much and is still a long way off making a presence
McHenry: Has been injured and whilst he has show something in the SANFL he hasn't given the club anything.
2017
Fogarty: Is still developing and is possibly the one who has shown some real upside but again due to a lack of exposure is possible a year behind where he should be
Andrew McPherson: hasnt been seen
2016
Jordan Gallucci: Cant cement a place in the best 22. So after 3 years we cant say that he has given us anything.
Myles Poholke: Nothing.
Matthew Signorello: Nothing
Ben Davis: Not giving us any lift at all.

So far none of the players that we selected in the draft for the past three years has developed and given us any fresh exciting players. The last time we did any good was in 2015 when we got Milera and Doedee.

Getting Gibbs is only a part of the problem.
This isn’t a thread about drafting but on your post.

You seem to be judging the players rather than questioning their development and lack of opportunities. McHenry hasn’t given the club anything? Bit hard when we didn’t pick him when his form warranted.

Fogarty again lack of opportunity, when he got he’s been our best forward.

Gallucci dropped after being concussed never to be seen again. Not given opportunity in the afl at his position.

Pohohkle not giving the opportunity at his position.

Davis one game against Geelong in Geelong and not seen again.

McPherson unfortunately always injured.

Our player development has sucked as have our selections.
 

Cleric

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He was a player famous for never missing a game.
Moves to Adelaide and gets named round 1, but gets a "minor" injury late and misses the game... and the next seven thanks to Adelaide fitness staff.
Finally gets 5 games in a row, all respectable to good performances.
Before finally being forced into retirement thanks to injury.

I can understand him being seen as a poor recruit. But as far as actual performance goes, he was perfectly reasonable for a backup midfielder. Most of the downsides of his recruitment were the result of AFC itself.
Why take a list spot up with a 30 year old who was just a plodder and offered nothing long term? It wasnt rocket science. I along with others jumped up and down about his addition at the time.
 

Cleric

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This isn’t a thread about drafting but on your post.

You seem to be judging the players rather than questioning their development and lack of opportunities. McHenry hasn’t given the club anything? Bit hard when we didn’t pick him when his form warranted.

Fogarty again lack of opportunity, when he got he’s been our best forward.

Gallucci dropped after being concussed never to be seen again. Not given opportunity in the afl at his position.

Pohohkle not giving the opportunity at his position.

Davis one game against Geelong in Geelong and not seen again.

McPherson unfortunately always injured.

Our player development has sucked as have our selections.
Gallucci has had plenty of opportunities to show his abilities. Would you rather him or Hayward? Its a pretty simple one.
 

Elite Crow

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Gallucci has had plenty of opportunities to show his abilities. Would you rather him or Hayward? Its a pretty simple one.
Oh I’ve said I would have preferred Hayward and believe this is one first rounder Hamish has stuffed up.

Having said that, my point was have we really given Gallucci the best chance of success? What role has he been asked to play at AFL compared to what he was drafted as? Even recently in the SANFL didn’t we shunt him to the forward line and prefer Douglas and Gibbs in the middle?
 

kulak

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The 2017 trade period might be the worst of all time

We were a forward half pressure and intercept team

Then we traded our sole elite forward pressure
And our intercept king

And spent the proceeds on a slow ball magnet midfielder who duplicated our existing slow ball magnet midfielders

And then in the draft we picked a key forward and an injury prone medium defender

With zero forward pressure on the list we’ve seen the result ever since

Compare to West Coast who in 2017 were slow and old
- Priddis and Mitchell retired
- started playing Liam Ryan who was pick 26
- started playing Willie Rioli who was pick 52 in 2016

...suddenly with a couple of young players closing down space, and two slow old guys subtracted from the midfield, their whole team became quick and scary to play against.
 

Mr MysteryGuest

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Last year's draft with Hamish putting a bid in for Thomas and then taking Chayce the next pick makes it look like he has blinkers on for anything Tasmanian at the cost of others.
It only looks that way if you want it to.
It’s something that has been said before but there’s literally no evidence to support.
 

Cleric

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Oh I’ve said I would have preferred Hayward and believe this is one first rounder Hamish has stuffed up.

Having said that, my point was have we really given Gallucci the best chance of success? What role has he been asked to play at AFL compared to what he was drafted as? Even recently in the SANFL didn’t we shunt him to the forward line and prefer Douglas and Gibbs in the middle?
From what I recall of his draft year, he spent a lot of time in the half forward flank position that Dougy has been playing for us. He was a goal kicking half forward that would push up into the middle a bit. Bucks would have seen more of him to say if that's accurate.
 

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Peter J

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Oh I’ve said I would have preferred Hayward and believe this is one first rounder Hamish has stuffed up.

Having said that, my point was have we really given Gallucci the best chance of success? What role has he been asked to play at AFL compared to what he was drafted as? Even recently in the SANFL didn’t we shunt him to the forward line and prefer Douglas and Gibbs in the middle?
I’m currently starting to feel torn between whether Hamish is being overrated, or whether our development is poor.

I’m leaning toward development.
 

Scorpus

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I’m currently starting to feel torn between whether Hamish is being overrated, or whether our development is poor.

I’m leaning toward development.
Poor recruiting is when you have good picks, they play enough AFL to form a solid opinion, and they don't look good.

Our recent picks have barely played, whether they are early or late. Gallucci, drafted in 2016, still hasn't played 30 games. His longest stretch of consistent football was 10 games and he started to look decent in that period. Newer draftees even less.

The last picks we have had a good look at are Milera and Doedee, both look like successes. But even Milera has looked fantastic last year (good recruiting, shows there is genuine talent) but poor this year (poor development)

Poor recruiting would be, for example, drafting Josh Schache with pick 2 in 2015, same year as Milera/Doedee. Looks the worst of the KPP bunch taken that year (McKay, Curnow, H. Himmelberg, Francis) and has played over 50 AFL games
 

Thetrader15

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As the Crows are now likley to finish 12th....after we lose to Dogs by a good margin and Port and North beat Freo and Melb respectively.
That trade with Carlton we were all excited about now means we get a pick 4 places ahead of the Blues.
So we give up a top 20 pick in a super draft and a year of development....to rise 4 places.....pick 3 instead of 7....big deal. Arrogant fools.
I stand by the trade, I don't stand by the on field performance this year
 

Cleric

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Poor recruiting is when you have good picks, they play enough AFL to form a solid opinion, and they don't look good.

Our recent picks have barely played, whether they are early or late. Gallucci, drafted in 2016, still hasn't played 30 games. His longest stretch of consistent football was 10 games and he started to look decent in that period. Newer draftees even less.

The last picks we have had a good look at are Milera and Doedee, both look like successes. But even Milera has looked fantastic last year (good recruiting, shows there is genuine talent) but poor this year (poor development)

Poor recruiting would be, for example, drafting Josh Schache with pick 2 in 2015, same year as Milera/Doedee. Looks the worst of the KPP bunch taken that year (McKay, Curnow, H. Himmelberg, Francis) and has played over 50 AFL games
That logic fails because we didnt have pick 2. I would bet London to a brick if we had pick 2 we wouldn't have taken Milera or Doedee.
In his draft year if I remember correctly, Schache broke a heap of TAC cup records as a forward. He was considered by every recruiter as a top 2 pick.
 

BrissyCrow

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This isn’t a thread about drafting but on your post.

You seem to be judging the players rather than questioning their development and lack of opportunities. McHenry hasn’t given the club anything? Bit hard when we didn’t pick him when his form warranted.

Fogarty again lack of opportunity, when he got he’s been our best forward.

Gallucci dropped after being concussed never to be seen again. Not given opportunity in the afl at his position.

Pohohkle not giving the opportunity at his position.

Davis one game against Geelong in Geelong and not seen again.

McPherson unfortunately always injured.

Our player development has sucked as have our selections.
I disagree with you about my comment not being related to list management. Drafting is part of the list management programme.

The basis for my comment was to draw attention to an area that many seem to have overlooked. Most comments have been about Gibbs. I dont disagree with the idea that the Gibbs trade has cost us but its not the only reason we are in the s**t right now. Our drafts for the last three years have not given us any improvement. Simple. I believe the reasons why this is so is the same as your comment. We havent given these guys the exposure in the AFL side to help them develop.

Most believe that these draftees do have talent. How do we turn that talent on. If we could turn it on over the summer break we would have players like Fog, Jones, McHenry, Sholl, Butts and Gallucci pushing for a regular place in the side. Thats a dramatic improvement. Then we would also have what we pick up this year. This is where we need to place our attention on rather than picking the s**t out of Gibbs, and the guys who have gone.
 
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Mutineer

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Poor recruiting is when you have good picks, they play enough AFL to form a solid opinion, and they don't look good.

Our recent picks have barely played, whether they are early or late. Gallucci, drafted in 2016, still hasn't played 30 games. His longest stretch of consistent football was 10 games and he started to look decent in that period. Newer draftees even less.

The last picks we have had a good look at are Milera and Doedee, both look like successes. But even Milera has looked fantastic last year (good recruiting, shows there is genuine talent) but poor this year (poor development)

Poor recruiting would be, for example, drafting Josh Schache with pick 2 in 2015, same year as Milera/Doedee. Looks the worst of the KPP bunch taken that year (McKay, Curnow, H. Himmelberg, Francis) and has played over 50 AFL games
We were very, very heavily into Harry McKay, Our recruiters had multiple meetings with the McKay's at the family home down near Warragul very late in the piece, eventually when Harry was off the table we put in a bid on another tall Harry Himmelberg which GWS matched, the pick was then used on Doedee much to the chagrin of the Adelaide Big Footy board.
 

Thegibbsgamble

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Can't judge the stack thing yet, way to early. Mark Williams May be an absolutec clown but has pedigree with guys like him. Port use to recruit straight from yatala in his old mans day. His old man was afterall a delinquent from quorn until west adelaide recruited him.

Look at the top of the ladder, our old football manager there now.

Look at last years runner up, our old list manager.

Look at geelong, our star player there.

Thier replacements ain't half the men they are.
 

CrowBox89

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The Chayce Jones pick still seems bizarre, he’s a small bodied mid when the game is going the way of a Cripps, Fyfe and bont as elite mids yet we don’t pick Jackson Hately who looks to be in that mould around 190cm and had played SANFL footy last year for centrals?
 

Peter J

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The Chayce Jones pick still seems bizarre, he’s a small bodied mid when the game is going the way of a Cripps, Fyfe and bont as elite mids yet we don’t pick Jackson Hately who looks to be in that mould around 190cm and had played SANFL footy last year for centrals?
Right with you on that one.

I was very happy for us to take him at 9.
 

Big Crow

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We’ve had some interesting list decision choices and when you add them together it’s damming reading:

Henderson - delisted, lose him for nothing, Mackay preferred
Recruitment of Hampton and Menzel
Thommo- retained for additional year, wasted
Lyons- pushed out, receive pick in the 40s
Gibbs- wouldn’t do the deal and then we did for the cost we called irresponsible the year before
Long term deals to older players - Betts, Jenkins, Tex, Sloane, Lynch, Gibbs
Otten- retained for year too long
Passing and going short on the list- missed out on players

Now I’m not saying I got all these right at the time, but that’s not the point. We have highly paid experts to make the right call.

But collectively that’s an ordinary effort
Good post.

In my opinion our poor history of list management in recent years speaks volumes on the way the club is being run, and is why the position we now we find ourselves in has been a long time coming.

The list of long term deals for older players are a mix and more grey, but let’s be honest the others you’ve listed there were all very obvious at the time or even earlier.

At best we’re making too many mistakes. At worst it demonstrates that the club is prioritising the wrong things. Either way a drastic shift is required.
 

King Elvis

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I’m currently starting to feel torn between whether Hamish is being overrated, or whether our development is poor.

I’m leaning toward development.
We nailed it with a few left field selections - Dangerfield and Doedee, for example - and got sucked into believing that was the best approach.

We like left field selections now, when we should just be picking the best and most suitable player available.
 

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