Analysis List management errors

Brasher

Norm Smith Medallist
Jul 3, 2006
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We’ve had some interesting list decision choices and when you add them together it’s damming reading:

Henderson - delisted, lose him for nothing, Mackay preferred
Recruitment of Hampton and Menzel
Thommo- retained for additional year, wasted
Lyons- pushed out, receive pick in the 40s
Gibbs- wouldn’t do the deal and then we did for the cost we called irresponsible the year before
Long term deals to older players - Betts, Jenkins, Tex, Sloane, Lynch, Gibbs
Otten- retained for year too long
Passing and going short on the list- missed out on players

Now I’m not saying I got all these right at the time, but that’s not the point. We have highly paid experts to make the right call.

But collectively that’s an ordinary effort
It's worse if you take a little poetic license on why the moves were made and how we then went about things:

Henderson: Let go because (and this board has plenty of commentary on it) for being a bit of a squib. Replaced in side with Atkins who would win the Brownlow for Squibs if such an award existed. Unlike Atkins, Henderson had suffered a few head knocks to justify being gun shy.
Hampton and Menzel: Contenders for the Richard Tambling "Local Underachieving Product Come Home" Award. Argument that a change of scenery on more familiar grounds would spark careers. Not sure the club actually did anything special to address the underachievement other than bringing them to Adelaide.
Thommo: His last year was 2017, doubtful his list spot cost anyone a game...may have gone a year earlier under necessity had we had the Tippet-Gate draft sanctions on our list.
Lyons: Never understood the move or the lack of love (or GC's for that matter). Accused of being too slow and a one way runner, exactly what we replaced him with in the current midfield set up.
Gibbs: Romance got in the way of innovative and hard decision making. With the 5 high draft picks lost with Tippet-Gate club could not afford to give away further 1st rounders on any mature player unless they were going to be a candidate for the Norm Smith Medal.
Otten: See Thommo.
 

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Cleric

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Sydney Stack was ONLY picked up because of the change in rules. Even the Richmond recruiter said that on the same podcast platform . He was virtually the last picked person. Thats how toxic he was

The same podcast platform has EVERY recruiter talk about character.

ie its not an 'Adelaide thing' - every club puts character first

But I will agree once a player gets here they are turned whitebread
Yeah, so we could of had him for a rookie pick. And the line of " everyone else passed on him as well" holds no water, because Richmond took him even though no one else wanted him, and they won the lottery for free. Could have been us.
 

kulak

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Sydney Stack was ONLY picked up because of the change in rules. Even the Richmond recruiter said that on the same podcast platform . He was virtually the last picked person. Thats how toxic he was

The same podcast platform has EVERY recruiter talk about character.

ie its not an 'Adelaide thing' - every club puts character first

But I will agree once a player gets here they are turned whitebread
When pressed in that interview the Richmond recruiter did say that if there was no post draft selection - they would have taken Stack as a rookie
 

King Elvis

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Interesting to now see the Jenkins PR spin train starting up by the man himself.

We should NEVER have done that deal and we should have taken the Brissy offer.
Once again another demonstration of the lack of strategic planning and system we have.

Why did we recruit Fog and Himmel if we were going to continue to play Jenkins and/or Lynch?

Because there is no forward thinking or planning - it's just short term reactions.
 

GreyCrow

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Yeah, so we could of had him for a rookie pick. And the line of " everyone else passed on him as well" holds no water, because Richmond took him even though no one else wanted him, and they won the lottery for free. Could have been us.
Could have should have would have

Why single Adelaide out though?
 

WaynesWorld19

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Once again another demonstration of the lack of strategic planning and system we have.

Why did we recruit Fog and Himmel if we were going to continue to play Jenkins and/or Lynch?

Because there is no forward thinking or planning - it's just short term reactions.
Did we know that both are going to work out, of develop at a similar rate? .....Davis / Talia anyone ?
 

WaynesWorld19

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Yeah, so we could of had him for a rookie pick. And the line of " everyone else passed on him as well" holds no water, because Richmond took him even though no one else wanted him, and they won the lottery for free. Could have been us.
Him staying with the Coaches Family showed a commitment, not sure ADEL would follow
 

ABAB

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Apr 3, 2018
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Once again another demonstration of the lack of strategic planning and system we have.

Why did we recruit Fog and Himmel if we were going to continue to play Jenkins and/or Lynch?

Because there is no forward thinking or planning - it's just short term reactions.
We always draft quality ahead of need (unless they are equal then we got with need) which should always be the case.
 

Jcpdragonx

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I don't mind Sloane's deal, he's the face of the club and still our best player. He takes a lot of pressure of other midfielders and our reputation for losing players was getting out of control. To keep him we probably needed to give him that extra year.

Giving Jenkins a big deal after he downhill skiied with all those goal square goals was the worst.
 

Jcpdragonx

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Id question how much influence Pyke and co have in choosing our recruits the last few years. Gallucci over English is one that's came out already (cant remember where from?) were Jones and McHenry the recruiting staffs preference?
Gallucci's a midfielder that's played all 90% of his career forward. I'd wait til next year before getting too worried.
 

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Mutineer

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Aug 9, 2019
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I don't mind Sloane's deal, he's the face of the club and still our best player. He takes a lot of pressure of other midfielders and our reputation for losing players was getting out of control. To keep him we probably needed to give him that extra year.

Giving Jenkins a big deal after he downhill skiied with all those goal square goals was the worst.
I'd question your "Sloane is still our best player" statement, his last 2 seasons have been nowhere near the level of previous seasons.
 

Jcpdragonx

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I'd question your "Sloane is still our best player" statement, his last 2 seasons have been nowhere near the level of previous seasons.
Still rated a top 10 mid by champion data if you take out his mid game injuries, despite being tagged almost every week in the second half of the year. Yes not as good as his peak years but a fine season.

Smith has been pretty good, as has Brad but he gets 0 attention for a reason - opposition coaches rate Sloane as the bigger threat. Maybe there's a case for RoB, but I still think Sloane is better.
 

Golumless

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Whilst pick 40 was probably a tad low, I wouldn't consider Lyon a list management error (if anything, on whoever oversaw our trading if you feel the need to blame someone). We had a better player with a very similar profile in Matt Crouch, and really, carrying more than one of that type is really bad in a game that pace is one of the most vital facets.

It was a very good example of both a hard decision, but the right one on our end.

Menzel and Hamptom are interesting ones as well, hard to be too disappointed seeing both were mid risk/high reward types. Sometimes they don't work out, and unfortunately, we hit two of them. Both weren't expensive, though we did hinge on Menzel being the break even on the Dangerfield trade. Not Nobles finest bit of work.

Unfortunately, a lot of them were us banking on our side having a top 4 side from 2016-2021. Fair enough thought process in 2015-2017, now not so much. A part of this is s**t happens with players seeing there is an amount of luck with performance being maintained, a part of it is a symptom of us ******* up our off-field with Burton as a GM as well as some dubious choices with our line coaches. If we had that better, it'd make this look a lot better.
 
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Elite Crow

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Whilst pick 40 was probably a tad low, I wouldn't consider Lyon a list management error (if anything, on whoever oversaw our trading if you feel the need to blame someone). We had a better player with a very similar profile in Matt Crouch, and really, carrying more than one of that type is really bad in a game that pace is one of the most vital facets.

It was a very good example of both a hard decision, but the right one on our end.

Menzel and Hamptom are interesting ones as well, hard to be too disappointed seeing both were mid risk/high reward types. Sometimes they don't work out, and unfortunately, we hit two of them. Both weren't expensive, though we did hinge on Menzel being the break even on the Dangerfield trade. Not Nobles finest bit of work.

Unfortunately, a lot of them were us banking on our side having a top 4 side from 2016-2021. Fair enough thought process in 2015-2017, now not so much. A part of this is s**t happens with players seeing there is an amount of luck with performance being maintained, a part of it is a symptom of us ******* up our off-field with Burton as a GM as well as some dubious choices with our line coaches. If we had that better, it'd make this look a lot better.
We pushed out Lyons for SFA and he’s turned out to be a very good player, that’s a list management fu** up no matter which way you look at it.
 

Murray2503

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May 10, 2016
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The AFC is a very arrogant club led by a very arrogant intransigent chairman. The clubs biggest problem right now is list management. The current state of our list needs to be investigated and the parties responsible need to be held to account after the review is finalised. I suspect it's a combination of Riccuito, Reid, Burton, Pyke, Ogilvie, Fagan. My view is that since Riccuito has come on board the club has deteriorated each year. I hope the review finds that Roo, Burton, Reid and Pyke are the first to go.closely followed by Hass, Campo, Hart. I would also like Chapman to speed up his departure. Ideally I wouldnt be unhappy if Fagan started applying for new positions elsewhere. He has been a bloody disappointment. I trust the review recommends key decision makers need to be moved out asap. If it doesn't the review has been a complete waste of time. The club needs to fix 2 things immediately.
1. Create a decent culture that players want to play and stay at.
2. Fix our list management team and coaching /fitness dept.
It cannot be understated that the club has major problems currently. I personally would like to see Dunstall moved onto the board in Riccuito's position. I feel he could manage this role out of Melbourne. I do feel it could take up to 2 years to completely fix our off field issues.
 
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