List Management- Looking to the Future

[Vader]

A few things....

Firstly, we need to have a minimum of 3 vacancies on our list by the time the draft is conducted. This does not include rookies who are retained on the rookie list, but every rookie we decide to upgrade to the senior list means another player who needs to be delisted/traded. Ditto NSW Scholarship players (Taylor Walker), we have to have a minimum of three "live" selections on draft day.

For what it's worth, I would definitely look at re-drafting Chad Gibson - albeit as a rookie - if he can remain fit and plays well consistently for Norwood in the SANFL.

And so to the list of potential departures:

Mark Ricciuto (retire): Is there anyone here who seriously expects him to continue playing in 2008? Will retire with one of the biggest farewell parties seen in a long time.

Luke Jericho (delist): Currently playing simply to see if he has what it takes to make it. Obviously on his last chance, as stated by both player & coach. Most of us expect him to be delisted (can't see anyone being interested in a trade).

Kris Massie (delist): Has been a "depth" player for us over the last couple of years, but the kids have now matured to the level where he is surplus to requirements. At 26 years of age, 27 in under a fortnight, we would be struggling to find him a new home. Will almost certainly be delisted.

Scott Welsh (delist): Was placed on a 1-year performance based contract and to date has only "performed" in two of 7 games. Would have to be skating on very thin ice, with the ice getting increasingly thinner if/when he suffers the inevitable injuries (given that he traditionally misses 1/3 of each season through injury). Likely delisting.

Ken McGregor (delist): If he can't make our current injury depleted lineup, what chance does he have next year when we have Sellar, Tippett, Griffin & Hentschel all looking for spots in the forward line (not to mention Gill)? Not sure what his contractual status is, but Grug could be in serious danger if he's out of contract.

John Meesen (trade): With Hudson, Maric and Griffin all ahead of him in the pecking order, it may be in Meesen's best interests to request a trade. The final decision though will be his - he will certainly be retained if he wishes to stay.

Nick Gill (delist): May well be retained, especially if Welsh and/or McGregor get the axe. Was drafted as coverage for Hentshell, and with his return unlikely before mid-2008 at best (if ever) he may well be retained until the younger KPP forwards are ready to play at the highest level. However, if he continues to break down he will almost certainly be delisted.

Rhett Biglands (delist): Contracted for 2008, he can forget about playing in the ruck. Would be retained as a backup for Hudson and to provide another forward option (especially if Welsh and/or McGregor are chopped). Highly unlikely to be playing in 2009, but may survive to play in 2008.

Trent Hentschell (delist): Out of contract at the end of 2007. His future depends entirely upon the surgeon's prognosis. If the doc says he'll make a full recovery, then he will be retained. Anything less than that and his number may be up.

Bernie Vince (trade/delist): Unlikely to be delisted, though a trade might be a possibility. Has been given plenty of opportunities this year, but has really shown very little. Is currently playing, but only due to having so many senior players MIA. Will probably be given another 12 months to show his wares, departing at the end of 2008 if he hasn't shown anything at the senior level.

Jason Torney (delist): Turns 30 next month and the club have stated that they will not retain any player aged 30+ unless they are "tier 1" players. Torney is a very good player and is still performing well, he does not IMHO deserve to be cut. However, I do not rate him as "tier 1" (this would be reserved for the likes of Roo, Goody, Edwards, Macca & Rutten). As such, his delisting needs to be considered as a distinct possibility.

Bryce Campbell: With the list above, he's safe as houses for 2007 (might be gone though at the end of 2008).

 

[Vader]

That's what, 9 players in the OP? I don't think we can even draft that many... are there even enough rounds?

We can draft as many as we like. There is no limit to the number of rounds, it is simply determined by the number of players each club wishes to draft. It is quite common for the later rounds to have only one or two selections each. That being said, it would be unlikely for us to draft more than 4 or 5.

We won't drop that many. Unless Maric steps up, Biggie will be #3 ruckman, and he won't go.

Biglands would be behind Hudson, Maric, Griffin and possibly Meesen. Simply there to provide depth, just as Clarke was in 2005 (when Hudson & Biglands were #1 & #2). Would be more likely to be retained as a forward option.

I agree we won't be dropping all 9 players, nobody is saying that we will. We are discussing the options which the club has. I would expect Adelaide to be looking at drafting 4-5 players. With McIntyre an almost certain upgrade that's 5-6 delistings. If we decide to upgrade Gallman & Turner as well, it's 7-8. Walker could potentially make 8-9. It's possible, but there are a LOT of "ifs".

I don't think ROO is going anywhere either. He'll get fit and play a solid 2 or 3 more years.

You are quite possibly the only person on this forum who believes this. I hope you are right, but I seriously doubt it.

 

[- PC -]

Some info from the contract thread to help focus who is and who isnt available

Updated 6th November 2006


3 Year Contract until end of 2007:

Edwards
Reilly
Hentschell
Hudson
Rutten


2 year contract until end of 2007:

van Berlo Re-Signed delete
Vince
Douglas


1 year contract until end of 2007:

Ricciuto
Porplyzia
Maric
Meesen
Welsh

 

[- PC -]

You are quite possibly the only person on this forum who believes this. I hope you are right, but I seriously doubt it.

Roo is at least contracted until 2008...that would give both the club and the player room to move. He will be paid either way and as a clubman and a champion he should be at least given the opportunity to fall on his own sword and not the club cutting him.

Whether he ios offered another contract at this stage looks unlikely

 

[Vader]

Roo is at least contracted until 2008...that would give both the club and the player room to move. He will be paid either way and as a clubman and a champion he should be at least given the opportunity to fall on his own sword and not the club cutting him.

Whether he ios offered another contract at this stage looks unlikely

Contracted until 2008? Almost certain he's on a 1-year contract, which would expire at the end of 2007.

Don't get me wrong, I fully expect him to retire with full dignity and honours. I certainly don't expect him to put the club through the same mess that Ben Hart did. I just don't expect him to be playing in 2008.

 

[- PC -]

Contracted until 2008? Almost certain he's on a 1-year contract, which would expire at the end of 2007.

.

Yep your right I read the thread wrong

 

[Alex99]

2008 playing list

Defenders

Nathan Bassett
Graham Johncock
John Hinge
Luke Jericho - Delist
Martin Mattner
Ben Rutten
Scott Stevens
Jason Torney - Retire
Trent Hentschel
Kris Massie - delist
Andrew McIntyre (1)

(1) At this stage Andrew McIntyre looks like he is the only rookie who may be considered as a rookie up grade and given a place on the primary list for season 2008.

Midfielders

Bryce Campbell
Michael Doughty
Richard Douglas
Tyson Edwards
Simon Goodwin
Chris Knights
David Mackay
Darren Pfeiffer
Andrew McLeod
Brent Reilly
Robert Shirley
Scott Thompson
Nathan Van Berlo

Forwards

Nathan Bock
Mathew Bode
Brett Burton
Nick Gill
Ken McGregor
Ian Perrie
Jason Porplyzia
Mark Ricciuto - Retire
James Sellar
Bernie Vince
Scott Welsh
Taylor Walker# (2) (NSW development player)
(2) Taylor Walker potentially could be added to the playing list for 2008 under the NSW player development scheme.

Ruckmen

Jonathon Griffin
Ben Hudson
Ivan Maric
Rhett Biglands - Delist
John Meesen
Kurt Tippett


By adding Andrew McIntyre and Taylor Walker to the 2008 playing list we would need to delist a minimum of 5 players from the 2007 primary playing list. We need a minimum of 3 national draft picks and 2 additional players so walker and McIntyre can be listed.

Delist

Rhett Biglands – by turning 31 in 2008 and coming off a 12 month injury IMO he is automatically expandable. For the club to continue to move forward, priority must be given to Maric, Meesen and Griffin to back up Ben Hudson

Kris Massie – with the improvement in Chris Knights, Richard Douglas and Bernie Vince it is hard to find a sport for him in the best 22 and it’s hard to justify keeping a 28 year old as a depth player.

Luke Jericho – unless he can perform a miracle and have a break out second half of the year, time and playing numbers will have caught up with Luke and his days at the AFC will be over.

Mark Ricciuto – it looks like father time maybe telling Mark Ricciuto to hang up the boot and retire from the AFL, if he cannot get out on the park and play a few games I cannot see any other option for the Neil Craig and the AFC.

Jason Torney and Scott Welsh – this decision may be made for them and will depend on how there bodies hold up over the remaining 13 rounds and finals. If either misses more than they play they may not be offered a new contract for 2008.

Rookie listed players

Archard, Gallman and Turner may get second years as rookie listed player but it’s hard to see any of the 3 pushing for an up grading to the primary list. Plenty of time left yet but.

 

[RooDog]

Draftees are given 2 year contracts, and if they're delisted after 1 year then the club has to pay out the remainder of their contract, and it's still included on the second years salary cap. It basically means paying a player for nothing, and causing salary cap tension.
It's fairly rare for a club to do this, so I found it to be something of a surprise when Obst was delisted, despite how little he showed over his year with us.

Gill fits into an exception to this rule though (he's already been on an AFL list, so we're allowed to offer him an 1 year contract I believe), so I guess he's still in the running. I doubt we'd delist Campbell though; he'd have to have a really really REALLY crap year or have some serious disciplinary issues.

i acutally think you are wrong on this,i think its only bottom age draftees have to be given 2 year contracts, anyone over 18 years of age on draft day can be given a one year deal im pretty sure. ill ask obsts sister next time i see her she will know for sure, but i have a feeling he only had a one year contract.

 

[Dandy_GO]

i acutally think you are wrong on this,i think its only bottom age draftees have to be given 2 year contracts, anyone over 18 years of age on draft day can be given a one year deal im pretty sure. ill ask obsts sister next time i see her she will know for sure, but i have a feeling he only had a one year contract.

Really? I was under the impression it was all draftees bar those who had been with an AFL club previously. Wouldn't be surprised if I were wrong though as it certainly would have been an interesting move by the club if he was under a 2 year contract, despite the strength of the then upcoming draft.

 

[Alex99]

i acutally think you are wrong on this,i think its only bottom age draftees have to be given 2 year contracts, anyone over 18 years of age on draft day can be given a one year deal im pretty sure. ill ask obsts sister next time i see her she will know for sure, but i have a feeling he only had a one year contract.

http://www.aflpa.com.au/media/CBA 2003-2008webFINAL.pdf

9. PLAYERS UNDER 18 YEARS OF AGE
In respect of a Player who is included on the List of an AFL Club before the Player attains the age of 18 years:
(a) the AFL Club which lists the Player shall:
(i) contract the Player for a minimum of two years;
(ii) where the Player moves interstate, provide economy class return airfare
tickets for the parents (or two other relatives or persons nominated by the
Player) of the Player for two separate occasions to enable those persons to
visit the Player during the year of the Player’s first AFL Season; and
(iii) pay reasonable taxi fares necessarily incurred by the Player in attending
training, Matches and official AFL Club functions;
(b) the Player shall not attend the AFL Club or participate in any training session until
at least two weeks after the Player’s final school exam (if applicable) in the year of
the Player’s first AFL Season;
(c) the Player, prior to the first training session in January in the year of the Player’s
first AFL Season, must train in accordance with a modified training program that
has received the prior written approval of the Player’s Club and been notified to the
AFL General Manager – Football Operations (or nominee). The AFL shall notify
the AFLPA each year of the Players undertaking modified training programs and the
details of those modified training programs.

 

[Coopers]

You are quite possibly the only person on this forum who believes this. I hope you are right, but I seriously doubt it.

The law of Karma states that only bad things will happen if you expect them to...

 

[CarnCrows]

I realise McGreggor has been bandied around as being delisted/traded and personally I would not like it. However if he can not make our team as it sits, then he is in real trouble.

His value as a versaile tall should be very good to a team like the bullies? Does anyone know of a forward crumbers type on their list that they may want to trade?

 

[WheresGroomgone]

A few things....


Bernie Vince (trade/delist): Unlikely to be delisted, though a trade might be a possibility. Has been given plenty of opportunities this year, but has really shown very little. Is currently playing, but only due to having so many senior players MIA. Will probably be given another 12 months to show his wares, departing at the end of 2008 if he hasn't shown anything at the senior level.


Gee I would have to disagree big time with that comment, considering the opportunities he has been given I would suggest he's shown plenty, particularly considering his opportunities have come after returning from surgery/injury. Give the guy a go, Collingwood made Didak play for their VFL side for nearly 3 seasons after dafting him and look at what he has produced since...for some it takes a little time.

 

[vlbl]

I really think for us to develope our list we need to focus on letting go some of the older guys whoz legs aren't goin 2 b able to another pre-season and a whole season next year. Thats y i think jason torney will most certainly b delisted. We got player like hinge and Mcintyre who will b able to slot in2 his position easily. And lets face it we need to more faith on our youngsters, look at how vb, douglas and knights has come along after being placed with more responsibility. Also i though hinge showed really good sings in his debut b4 sadly getting injured. Also i think doughty is a chace to get delisted as well. I mean i dont see him doing anything that either douglas, pfeiffer or shirley wont b able to do next year. i do think if scott welsh doesnt end up kicking the most goals 4 us this year he'll certainly get delisted.

Lets face it we have the oldest list in the comp and that could become a problem in the long-run if we continue to extend the careers of players who's used-by date has long expired i.e. Hart previously. So we need to get rid of some of the older blokes and give the younger blokes more responsibility next yr. I mean just look at the lions this season, their defense is pretty much brand new and look how well its going, they got guyz like adcock, whos a ripper and roe and so on. So lets win this years flag and then set a plan for the next 5 yrs in terms of our drafts and list management.

 

[crowsarethebest]

This is gonig to be a very tough year in making the 3 delistings or more. I would think we would need to do a trade or two. If we do get 3 delistings it would be done with guilt. Out depth is so great and every player on our list offers something different.


IMO the three players that will probably be put up for trade/delist are Jericho, McGregor and Massie. The one that I don't want to go the most is Massie. I still think he is a good player and could offer the club a lot if given the opportunities. BUT I doubt he'll get the chance since all our youngsters have stepped up. Massie's a good player, he'd do as good a job in the midfield as Young Doughty. But he'll probably get limited opportunities. He was great last year when he was given a decent run.

Jericho... he's playing for his AFL career. These few weeks will tell whether he'll be kept or not. He put in a solid game on the weekend and hopefully he will put in a few other solid games. McGregor... I think he'll be put up as trade bait. We probably won't get much for him... probably late 2nd rounder at best. He's been injured but with so many people performing so well the pressure will be on for him to produce.

 

[McAlmanac]

I realise McGreggor has been bandied around as being delisted/traded and personally I would not like it. However if he can not make our team as it sits, then he is in real trouble.

His value as a versaile tall should be very good to a team like the bullies? Does anyone know of a forward crumbers type on their list that they may want to trade?

Jason Akermanis.

This thread is about 10 weeks too early.

 

[RooDog]

http://www.aflpa.com.au/media/CBA 2003-2008webFINAL.pdf

9. PLAYERS UNDER 18 YEARS OF AGE
In respect of a Player who is included on the List of an AFL Club before the Player attains the age of 18 years:
(a) the AFL Club which lists the Player shall:
(i) contract the Player for a minimum of two years;
(ii) where the Player moves interstate, provide economy class return airfare
tickets for the parents (or two other relatives or persons nominated by the
Player) of the Player for two separate occasions to enable those persons to
visit the Player during the year of the Player’s first AFL Season; and
(iii) pay reasonable taxi fares necessarily incurred by the Player in attending
training, Matches and official AFL Club functions;
(b) the Player shall not attend the AFL Club or participate in any training session until
at least two weeks after the Player’s final school exam (if applicable) in the year of
the Player’s first AFL Season;
(c) the Player, prior to the first training session in January in the year of the Player’s
first AFL Season, must train in accordance with a modified training program that
has received the prior written approval of the Player’s Club and been notified to the
AFL General Manager – Football Operations (or nominee). The AFL shall notify
the AFLPA each year of the Players undertaking modified training programs and the
details of those modified training programs.

yer thanks... so i was right, its noyl bottom age players who have to have 2 year contracts, obst was top age and i think you will find was on a 1 year deal where as gibson was on 2 cos he was bottom age

 

[Coopers]

I really think for us to develope our list we need to focus on letting go some of the older guys whoz legs aren't goin 2 b able to another pre-season and a whole season next year. Thats y i think jason torney will most certainly b delisted. We got player like hinge and Mcintyre who will b able to slot in2 his position easily. And lets face it we need to more faith on our youngsters, look at how vb, douglas and knights has come along after being placed with more responsibility. Also i though hinge showed really good sings in his debut b4 sadly getting injured. Also i think doughty is a chace to get delisted as well. I mean i dont see him doing anything that either douglas, pfeiffer or shirley wont b able to do next year. i do think if scott welsh doesnt end up kicking the most goals 4 us this year he'll certainly get delisted.

Lets face it we have the oldest list in the comp and that could become a problem in the long-run if we continue to extend the careers of players who's used-by date has long expired i.e. Hart previously. So we need to get rid of some of the older blokes and give the younger blokes more responsibility next yr. I mean just look at the lions this season, their defense is pretty much brand new and look how well its going, they got guyz like adcock, whos a ripper and roe and so on. So lets win this years flag and then set a plan for the next 5 yrs in terms of our drafts and list management.

Did you post this with your phone or something?

 

[Dandy_GO]

yer thanks... so i was right, its noyl bottom age players who have to have 2 year contracts, obst was top age and i think you will find was on a 1 year deal where as gibson was on 2 cos he was bottom age

Ah, fair call. My bad.

 

[Mong]

• Kris Massie (Trade). Despite a career best year in 2006, Massie could struggle to get back into the team as long as McIntyre and Hinge continue to develop. I’m sure we could get a draft pick in return as he still plenty to offer at the highest level, it just might not be with the Crows.

A fairly accurate call I think. Another player you didn't mention is Pfeiffer (How on earth did you forget him? ). There are three players right there who are developing quickly and are pretty much going to play the same role as Massie.

In reality though, if we don't want him his AFL career is likely to be over. No one else will pick up an ageing mid sized half back with limited pace and average ability.