List Mgmt. List Management Thread

[Mutineer]

Probably the first 2.

Then I'm very very pleased you're not anywhere near the Crows list management seat!

Quaynor has been in the AFL system 4 years longer than Max and has played in a far more competitive team for the bulk of that, Tom Stewart is fast approaching 33 so it would be absolute lunacy to trade him for a 21 year old Michalanney.

 

[Mostyn]

Probably the first 2.

You'd trade Max for Tom Stewart?!

No disrespect, but honestly, that is some absolutely dumb shit.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

You'd trade Max for Tom Stewart?!

No disrespect, but honestly, that is some absolutely dumb shit.

Yep, someone has lost the plot tonight.

Did Max run over his cat...

 

[Crow till I die]

I hope we are pulling out all stops now to lure Bailey across. Get a hige offer in front of him as if we could shake that one loose, it would be enormous for us.

Then mission..get sanders

 

[1970crow]

This will not age well at all.

Peaked at 21 has he?

He’s on track to play 300 games and go down as one of the best defenders of his generation - capable of completely blanketing opponents both tall and small despite his light frame, exceptional reading of the play and of the ball in flight, midfield craft outstanding and rebounding ability like a knife slicing through butter. Courage, determination and grit - outstanding leadership qualities.

Really poor take.

‘Outstanding midfield craft’ and ‘rebounding ability like a knife through butter’? My goodness, you’re delusional, he’s shown nothing like that at all.

He’s a good defender, as I said, nice B grade, but that’s all he looks like being.

Of 139 general defenders

85th kicking efficiency
82nd metres gained
81st highest contested possession ratio

He doesn’t do what you seem to believe he does. Maybe it changes if Nicks, Laird and Milera go and he can have a crack at providing more rebound. But he hasn’t been doing it so far. And until there’s a major change in philosophy/personnel, it won’t be happening in a hurry.

 

[crowutopia]

Doesn't mean Max isn't a B grader currently. After all, shutdown work isn't that valuable and you can find a lot of players who'll do a solid patch up job in this space.

You can't be an A grade defender without a highly productive offensive profile in this league. That's Max's next step in his development, should we allow Max the time to make a more offensive role his own (and there is no guarantee we will, seeing it depends on who else is on our list). If we keep him as that mid sized guy who is stuck on the oppositions most dangerous forward, he'll have a very long and valuable career, but he'll always be a B grader.

Let's call max an A minus grade player and move on lol.. He doesn't need to add a lot to move into full A grade territory and this year should bring it home, fingers crossed

 

[1970crow]

It’s not a stretch at all to say max stagnated or went backwards this year.

The question is, how much of his plateau is his ceiling kicking in and how much is the role he’s required to play due to those around him. As I posted, I thought we were looking at a version of Ben Hart during his first season. 2 further seasons and his attacking side hasn’t developed. And as I said, he’s a nice defender to have and will be a good and reliable player for us for 200+ games. But something needs to change if he’s going to get back on the Ben Hart v2 track.

 

[YKIMS]

‘Outstanding midfield craft’ and ‘rebounding ability like a knife through butter’? My goodness, you’re delusional, he’s shown nothing like that at all.

He’s a good defender, as I said, nice B grade, but that’s all he looks like being.

Of 139 general defenders

85th kicking efficiency
82nd metres gained
81st highest contested possession ratio

He doesn’t do what you seem to believe he does. Maybe it changes if Nicks, Laird and Milera go and he can have a crack at providing more rebound. But he hasn’t been doing it so far. And until there’s a major change in philosophy/personnel, it won’t be happening in a hurry.

Wow I didn’t think I would have to spell this out for you, but here we are.

For a start, you’ve resorted to dragging out stats from this past season (of which he went into off the back of a limited pre-season and was rushed back into the side for round one). He also missed a month of footy at the tail end, and was shifted out of defence in multiple games. So your overall gen def stats are pointless to even reference.

His first two years in the comp he didn’t miss a game, playing extremely underdeveloped physically and given the task of shutting down the opposition’s most dangerous attacking threat each week. This all culminated in him finishing fourth in our BnF at the age of 20, in 2024, with less than 50 games under his belt.

His (rebounding) ability to slice through teams like butter has absolutely nothing to do with his metres gained numbers - it was specifically a take on his ability to quickly sum up the highest percentage option (contest or otherwise) to deliver to and do it effectively, consistently. Nobody can argue this isn’t in his kit, I don’t care what numbers you throw at me. If you haven’t recognised this by now, you haven’t been watching.

Metres gained is also an extremely misleading stat, and not at all reflective of a player’s “rebounding” ability - as it can represent a myriad of player types, ranging from, as is most often the case, the most outside of all players who lack a defensive bone in their body, to others who simply pump it forward repeatedly for a territory “advantage” (tall, lock down defenders, contested mids, Brodie Smith and Rory Laird in their latter years throwing it on the boot and roosting it blindly over their left shoulder repeatedly)

His midfield craft, again, while playing with a physical disadvantage against more seasoned and hardened opponents, was absolutely commendable. He had to shoulder a giant load when we played him through the middle - not only did it demonstrate his willingness to stand up and be accountable when the team needed him to play a role completely foreign to him, let alone yet another crucial one, but also that he has all the traits of a successful midfielder long term should he be required there.

What you also fail to recognise, while denigrating him to a future of being nothing more than a “nice B grade” defender, is completely disregarding the fact that he has performed as admirably as he has to date at such a young age WHILE having to be mindful of THE MOST dangerous opposition threat constantly on his hammer at ALL times, looking for every possible way to exploit him and punish him.

We’re talking about the Kozzie Pickett’s, the Toby Greene’s of the AFL, not some bush league pocket heroes.

You fail to give credit where it is due and to accurately project how great a player he will become if he is already doing this now, at his age, at his weight, with his lack of experience.

 

[Crow till I die]

The question is, how much of his plateau is his ceiling kicking in and how much is the role he’s required to play due to those around him. As I posted, I thought we were looking at a version of Ben Hart during his first season. 2 further seasons and his attacking side hasn’t developed. And as I said, he’s a nice defender to have and will be a good and reliable player for us for 200+ games. But something needs to change if he’s going to get back on the Ben Hart v2 track.

And a nice forward too as he showed..versatility

 

[conVINCEd]

We have to, having only selected 2 players in the ND.

Did we get to the bottom of this mystery?

 

[adelaidecrows]

Did we get to the bottom of this mystery?

yes, we were committed to Ah Chee and nominated our intention of obtaining him in the PSD. This counted as the third pick.

 

[1970crow]

And a nice forward too as he showed..versatility

Mackay kicked 3 off his wing once. Max kicked 3 once against a bottom 3 side and was terrible when played there in a final. Way too early to be spruiking his forward ability.

 

[1970crow]

Wow I didn’t think I would have to spell this out for you, but here we are.

For a start, you’ve resorted to dragging out stats from this past season (of which he went into off the back of a limited pre-season and was rushed back into the side for round one). He also missed a month of footy at the tail end, and was shifted out of defence in multiple games. So your overall gen def stats are pointless to even reference.

His first two years in the comp he didn’t miss a game, playing extremely underdeveloped physically and given the task of shutting down the opposition’s most dangerous attacking threat each week. This all culminated in him finishing fourth in our BnF at the age of 20, in 2024, with less than 50 games under his belt.

His (rebounding) ability to slice through teams like butter has absolutely nothing to do with his metres gained numbers - it was specifically a take on his ability to quickly sum up the highest percentage option (contest or otherwise) to deliver to and do it effectively, consistently. Nobody can argue this isn’t in his kit, I don’t care what numbers you throw at me. If you haven’t recognised this by now, you haven’t been watching.

Metres gained is also an extremely misleading stat, and not at all reflective of a player’s “rebounding” ability - as it can represent a myriad of player types, ranging from, as is most often the case, the most outside of all players who lack a defensive bone in their body, to others who simply pump it forward repeatedly for a territory “advantage” (tall, lock down defenders, contested mids, Brodie Smith and Rory Laird in their latter years throwing it on the boot and roosting it blindly over their left shoulder repeatedly)

His midfield craft, again, while playing with a physical disadvantage against more seasoned and hardened opponents, was absolutely commendable. He had to shoulder a giant load when we played him through the middle - not only did it demonstrate his willingness to stand up and be accountable when the team needed him to play a role completely foreign to him, let alone yet another crucial one, but also that he has all the traits of a successful midfielder long term should he be required there.

What you also fail to recognise, while denigrating him to a future of being nothing more than a “nice B grade” defender, is completely disregarding the fact that he has performed as admirably as he has to date at such a young age WHILE having to be mindful of THE MOST dangerous opposition threat constantly on his hammer at ALL times, looking for every possible way to exploit him and punish him.

We’re talking about the Kozzie Pickett’s, the Toby Greene’s of the AFL, not some bush league pocket heroes.

You fail to give credit where it is due and to accurately project how great a player he will become if he is already doing this now, at his age, at his weight, with his lack of experience.

LOL, you made some claims that are plain wrong and then complain I used stats from last year.

2024 of 168 general defenders

68th for kicking efficiency (5th at our club)
76th for metres gained (5th at our club)
72nd for contested possession % (7th at our club)

Doesn’t seem 2025 was much of an outlier.

Now bear in mind, we play 4 general defenders each week. And apologies, didn’t think I’d need to spell it out (although I actually did), but you’ve imagined the attacking aspect to his game or are relying on 2026 and later.

He’s a very good defender, but league wide he’s bog average for what he gives going forward. It could change, but it’s unlikely with our coaching group and the make up of the back 7. So if you want to sing his praises as a defender, I’m on board, said that in my first post. It was just that your fantasy regarding his attacking play that needs to be argued.

 

[adelaidecrows]

‘Outstanding midfield craft’ and ‘rebounding ability like a knife through butter’? My goodness, you’re delusional, he’s shown nothing like that at all.

He’s a good defender, as I said, nice B grade, but that’s all he looks like being.

Of 139 general defenders

85th kicking efficiency
82nd metres gained
81st highest contested possession ratio

He doesn’t do what you seem to believe he does. Maybe it changes if Nicks, Laird and Milera go and he can have a crack at providing more rebound. But he hasn’t been doing it so far. And until there’s a major change in philosophy/personnel, it won’t be happening in a hurry.

Good rebounding defender but i agree, perhaps hasnt taken the next step of his career yet. Doesnt mean he wont but still has the potential too.

 

[Cromulant]

Doesn't mean Max isn't a B grader currently. After all, shutdown work isn't that valuable and you can find a lot of players who'll do a solid patch up job in this space.

You can't be an A grade defender without a highly productive offensive profile in this league. That's Max's next step in his development, should we allow Max the time to make a more offensive role his own (and there is no guarantee we will, seeing it depends on who else is on our list). If we keep him as that mid sized guy who is stuck on the oppositions most dangerous forward, he'll have a very long and valuable career, but he'll always be a B grader.

You cant be an A grade defender without an offensive profile ??

What utter garbage.

Almost like saying you cant be an A grade forward without a great defensive game.

Sorry Tex, sorry Filthy.... youve wasted a career.

 

[Cromulant]

LOL, you made some claims that are plain wrong and then complain I used stats from last year.

2024 of 168 general defenders

68th for kicking efficiency (5th at our club)
76th for metres gained (5th at our club)
72nd for contested possession % (7th at our club)

Doesn’t seem 2025 was much of an outlier.

Now bear in mind, we play 4 general defenders each week. And apologies, didn’t think I’d need to spell it out (although I actually did), but you’ve imagined the attacking aspect to his game or are relying on 2026 and later.

He’s a very good defender, but league wide he’s bog average for what he gives going forward. It could change, but it’s unlikely with our coaching group and the make up of the back 7. So if you want to sing his praises as a defender, I’m on board, said that in my first post. It was just that your fantasy regarding his attacking play that needs to be argued.

Who cares what he does going forward ??

 

[WaynesWorld19]

You cant be an A grade defender without an offensive profile ??

What utter garbage.

Almost like saying you cant be an A grade forward without a great defensive game.

Sorry Tex, sorry Filthy.... youve wasted a career.

Talia won't like this ....I'm sure he had at least a couple of attacking plays in his career

I agree, very difficult to generalise with any player .....I'm pretty sure SOS was a lockdown DEF, and he was in the team of the century

 

[Vader]

yes, we were committed to Ah Chee and nominated our intention of obtaining him in the PSD. This counted as the third pick.

No, it did not. The AFL Rules document makes this clear.

It would appear the AFL are playing fast & loose with their rules again, having clearly abandoned the rule that clubs must make a minimum of 3x ND selections (including rookie upgrades).

 

[adelaidecrows]

No, it did not. The AFL Rules document makes this clear.

It would appear the AFL are playing fast & loose with their rules again, having clearly abandoned the rule that clubs must make a minimum of 3x ND selections (including rookie upgrades).

Vader you are wrong. Let it go. I gave you examples.

 

[FR0GGY]

I love max, but “outstanding midfield craft”might be the strangest call I’ve seen on here yet.

 

[Sizzlepack]

You cant be an A grade defender without an offensive profile ??

What utter garbage.

Almost like saying you cant be an A grade forward without a great defensive game.

Sorry Tex, sorry Filthy.... youve wasted a career.

It's not a silly claim at all. In the modern game, the best defenders are those who provide an attacking threat. And yes, defensive discipline and ability to provide pressure and contest (which Thilthorpe is superb at) are very important attributes for forwards.

 

[Mutineer]

It's not a silly claim at all. In the modern game, the best defenders are those who provide an attacking threat. And yes, defensive discipline and ability to provide pressure and contest (which Thilthorpe is superb at) are very important attributes for forwards.

Care to name all the better 21 year old medium defenders in the AFL than Max currently?

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

The best attacking, rebounding defenders tend to get given the easier defensive jobs.

Means they can zone off, are free to read the play, intercept, hunt the footy. Do their own thing to a degree.

They are complemented by more dour lock down types around them who do the heavy defensive lifting vs the best forwards.

Max tends to be given the toughest medium/small match up.

Is that where we see him long term? Or do we want players like Bond locking down and free Max up to be the Tom Stewart / Interceptor / Rebound Generator?

 

[Sizzlepack]

Care to name all the better 21 year old medium defenders in the AFL than Max currently?

A couple of these guys are 22, but sure:

Weddle
Fletcher
Wilmot
Ginbey (maybe, also provides little on-ball value, but plays as more of a KPD)
Humphries (line ball)
Uwland
McVee (line ball)

Again, this shouldn't be misinterpreted as a claim that Michalanney is a bad player – just assent with the statement that improving his intercepting and rebounding will propel him to the next tier.

 

[1990crow]

You'd trade Max for Tom Stewart?!

No disrespect, but honestly, that is some absolutely dumb shit.

Tom Stewart, multiple All Australian Tom Stewart? I reckon Cats fans would think that's pretty dumb I agree.