List Mgmt. List Management Thread

[baldandbroke]

Develop for 7-8 years?

Yeah much better to use that list spot on quality players like forward Burgess, midfielder Schoenberg, midfielder Jones.

Our list has duds who play other “important” positions, couldn’t possibly waste a spot on a ruck.

Well they are 17 year olds, most rucks don't become competitive at the top level until they are at least mid-20s.

I do think that developing a 17 year old ruck is a wasted spot, that doesn't mean that I think we have a perfect list that doesn't carry players it shouldn't.

 

[Velvet George]

Well they are 17 year olds, most rucks don't become competitive at the top level until they are at least mid-20s.

I do think that developing a 17 year old ruck is a wasted spot, that doesn't mean that I think we have a perfect list that doesn't carry players it shouldn't.

Hes 18. Not all rucks take 7-8 years.

That’s the point isn’t, our list and all lists carry players that won’t make it or will take time to develop, but we can’t afford to carry one, not one developing ruck when practically all other clubs do?

And if it was so easy to bring in a ruck, how come we haven’t over the last 2 years? Draft one and you don’t have to convince them to come or be knocked back like we were with Moyle.

Now if Draper is coming next year, we are going to be giving him a huge contract to do so and he isn’t that good. Do you see that as a better approach?

 

[crows dude]

100%. Its going to be interesting with all 3 ruckman on our list out of contract at the end of 2025. I would like to see us possibly grab one in the midseason draft like we did with Toby.

Its been pretty interesting reading seeing how many people were upset with us overpaying for ANB with a late 2nd round pick because it might have cost us the opportunity to draft a player that went at pick 53.

Whose the third?

Murray?

He hasnt played at ruck yet in the SANFL. I guess its a bit bit like Strachan hadnt for his first two years on the list until ROB took over from Sauce. Strachan was a forward that pinch hitted in ruck. Much like Murray

 

[Mostyn]

Whose the third?

Murray?

He hasnt played at ruck yet in the SANFL. I guess its a bit bit like Strachan hadnt for his first two years on the list until ROB took over from Sauce. Strachan was a forward that pinch hitted in ruck. Much like Murray

Hasn't played as ruck?

He got hitouts every game last year, so he must have been getting a bit of ruck time.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

From a list management perspective - probably because it appears we want to make our decisions about our ruckman at the end of 2025 - when we have planned to have all 3 of them come out of contract.

Why not give us flexibility of choice when we could have with annual contracts.

It's not like he would likely be picked up by another club & not a significant problem if he was.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

We've also got Toby Murray and Thilthorpe

I know people hate the idea that either of these guys being seen as ruckman.....but perhaps they are being seen as ruck options ? Just not pure rucks

We need to try this combo for some games next season.

 

[AFC979810]

Why? You dont rate rucks so why are you wanting one?

Well you need one. You just dont need a good one.

I am not against grabbing a ruckman, just happy with the list management decision to have ROB as our ruckman, Strachan as our backup and Toby Murray as a developing ruckman.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Well you need one. You just dont need a good one.

I am not against grabbing a ruckman, just happy with the list management decision to have ROB as our ruckman, Strachan as our backup and Toby Murray as a developing ruckman.

What?

 

[AFC979810]

Now you going to list the successful clubs who have drafted rucks? Didn’t Geelong just draft one? Didn’t they use pick 24 on one in 2021? 2 young drafted rucks, hmm, No comment?

Yeah - and we drafted a ruckman in the midseason draft. And we have two 29 year old rucks in their prime (even if they are pretty average).

Not against taking a ruckman. Wouldn't have been upset if we pissed off Burgess or Schoenberg to grab Dodson. Just dont think its that big of an issue. ROB and Strachan are just fine for 2025 and then we can make a decision on what to do later in the year.

Ok, why haven’t we traded in a ruck over the last few years if it’s so easy? Didn’t Moyle knock us back? The bloke we could have drafted over a 12 year old back pocket? Surely you’re not defending that?

Cause we haven't needed to. Over the last couple of years we were perfectly happy with ROB as #1 and Strachan as #2.

Yeah - would have been fine grabbing Moyle over Parnell.

And you don’t rate rucks, you want midfielders, well how about rucks who play like midfielders. Dodson plays like one. We could have got him with a pick in the 50s had we not stuffed our list up, are you saying you wouldn’t have even used a pick in the 50s on a ruck who plays like a midfielder? Even after you called pick 58 nothing?

I dont want a ruck that plays like a midfielder. I would rather spend money on actual midfielders and then just have a serviceable ruckman that can do the job - like 90% of the premiership ruckman from the past 15 years.

 

[Velvet George]

Yeah - and we drafted a ruckman in the midseason draft. And we have two 29 year old rucks in their prime (even if they are pretty average).

Not against taking a ruckman. Wouldn't have been upset if we pissed off Burgess or Schoenberg to grab Dodson. Just dont think its that big of an issue. ROB and Strachan are just fine for 2025 and then we can make a decision on what to do later in the year.



Cause we haven't needed to. Over the last couple of years we were perfectly happy with ROB as #1 and Strachan as #2.

Yeah - would have been fine grabbing Moyle over Parnell.




I dont want a ruck that plays like a midfielder. I would rather spend money on actual midfielders and then just have a serviceable ruckman that can do the job - like 90% of the premiership ruckman from the past 15 years.

Haven’t needed to? We have dropped ROB 2 years running and being a leader of the club it means and with little back up, we’ve carried him for a period of poor form. We are now stuck with that shitty ruck pairing for another year.

Murray ain’t a ruck, he’s a forward who can pinch hit in the ruck. Ogilvie when discussing rucks yesterday mentioned ROB and Strachan, their age and needing to do something about it, no mention of Murray.

So you would have been happy with us drafting Moyle, you would have been happy with us drafting Dodson. The complaint from those that want a developing ruck is we haven’t drafted one at all since ROB and Strachan. In the meantime we’ve blown high and multiple picks on mids, forwards and backs.

You don’t want a mobile ruckman that can win his own ball to complement the midfield? Why not? That was our opportunity with Dodson.

Looks like we are targeting Draper on big money, is that a better option than developing our own?

 

[AFC979810]

Will definitely be an interesting watch - with ROB out of contract at the end of the year and NO DOUBT looking to be someone else's solution to the ruck problem.

A Melbourne team with a shot at the title will pay nothing much for him and he'll be more than useful.

We will be down to Toby Murray with Thilthorpe as the backup ... I expect us to just get Draper for 2025.

Frankly, that would be better than our incumbent.

Compare the pair: https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_player_compare

The idea of getting Dodson and developing him for probably 7 or 8 years into the next superstar ruckman, really makes very little sense for our team in the phase we are in. Happy to see where we are at when all these "great" ruck prospects hit their straps. I'm very much more in the "when I see it at AFL Level - I believe what they are" when it comes to rucks.

From a list management perspective. We have lots of flexibility.

We can re-sign ROB/Strachan. Or we can poach

A quick 5 minute search lists these players as out of contract in 2025. Both Geelong/Carltons DeKoning's / Mason Cox / Nick Bryan / Visentini (Both Essendon & Port)/ Reidy / Stanley / Lloyd Meek / Verrall / Teakle / Maley / Soldo / Hayes Brown / Ladhams - Plus we are linked to Draper.

Easiest position on the footy field to get an adequate starter for not much capital.

 

[Velvet George]

From a list management perspective. We have lots of flexibility.

We can re-sign ROB/Strachan. Or we can poach

A quick 5 minute search lists these players as out of contract in 2025. Both Geelong/Carltons DeKoning's / Mason Cox / Nick Bryan / Visentini (Both Essendon & Port)/ Reidy / Stanley / Lloyd Meek / Verrall / Teakle / Maley / Soldo / Hayes Brown / Ladhams - Plus we are linked to Draper.

Easiest position on the footy field to get an adequate starter for not much capital.

Draper? Going to come cheap?

 

[crows dude]

Hasn't played as ruck?

He got hitouts every game last year, so he must have been getting a bit of ruck time.

When Strachan rested and in the forward line.

Hit outs

 

[skittlebrew]

Hi RB, there is a known error in the Big Footy code. This means every time we create a new thread on our Board, we spam Big Footy. It's resulted in a default Watch setting for most users.

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regards Ticky

you fooking legend!!!

 

[Mostyn]

When Strachan rested and in the forward line.

Hit outs

View attachment 2172579

Right, so he IS rucking. He is playing as second ruck, good to know

 

[Velvet George]

So I got up to Fremantle, so between 4 club, 10 rucks under 25, all drafted, some only very young. Now I haven’t gone through last nights draftees to see if they added anyone.

11 if I include Geelong.

So of the recent premiers:

Brisbane - 1
Pies - 3
Cats - 1

Yep, I can understand these being silly unsuccessful clubs making stupid decisions. Then there is Freo and Carlton, all with multiple young rucks. Recent finalists.

The exception from this list Adelaide - zero. Haven’t made finals since 2017.

Yep I know which clubs strategy I’d back.

 

[Velvet George]

Right, so he IS rucking. He is playing as second ruck, good to know

The question isn’t second ruck, it’s needing to find a lead ruckman.

 

[BucketsNj]

Reid can stay.

Kelly should go.

Everyone knows this... except those at AFC.

Simplest fix would have been to sack Kelly, put Nicks into his role & find a decent coach.

What exactly is Kelly supposed to have done? I'm genuinely asking. Everyone is saying Kelly is an idiot but I suspect it's one of those BF things that just get assumed with no proof at all.How do we know he's incompetent? Has anyone got any tiny scrap of evidence? there may be some, but it may equally be a case of shitting on the scapegoat.

 

[AFC979810]

Draper? Going to come cheap?

Doubtful. Really hope we don't go for him because he will cost a bunch and I dont like spending on ruckman.

So I got up to Fremantle, so between 4 club, 10 rucks under 25, all drafted, some only very young. Now I haven’t gone through last nights draftees to see if they added anyone.

11 if I include Geelong.

So of the recent premiers:

Brisbane - 1
Pies - 3
Cats - 1

Yep, I can understand these being silly unsuccessful clubs making stupid decisions. Then there is Freo and Carlton, all with multiple young rucks. Recent finalists.

The exception from this list Adelaide - zero. Haven’t made finals since 2017.

Yep I know which clubs strategy I’d back.

Brisbane v Adelaide:

Starting Ruckman
Big O - 31 years old vs ROB - 29 years old.

Backup Ruckman
Fort - 31 years old vs Strachan - 29 years old.

Developing Ruckman
Smith - 22 years old Ruck/Forward 206cm vs Murray - 21 years old 202cm Ruck/Forward.

Seems pretty identical to me.

 

[baldandbroke]

Hes 18. Not all rucks take 7-8 years.

OK, but the point was he's not going to be ready for us as a lead-ruck in the next what, 5 years / 6 years / 7 years ... ?

That’s the point isn’t, our list and all lists carry players that won’t make it or will take time to develop, but we can’t afford to carry one, not one developing ruck when practically all other clubs do?

I just don't see the develop your own from scratch option as being a better road to getting a ruck

I don't think all other clubs have success with that strategy either.

And if it was so easy to bring in a ruck, how come we haven’t over the last 2 years? Draft one and you don’t have to convince them to come or be knocked back like we were with Moyle.

Maybe. We have a ruck right now, and a possible line to new one next year. I don't think our backup is great, would have preferred a better backup option from a trade than Strachan.

Now if Draper is coming next year, we are going to be giving him a huge contract to do so and he isn’t that good. Do you see that as a better approach?

I think he's a decent option. I do see that as a better option than having a developing ruck from the draft.

 

[jackster83]

OK, but the point was he's not going to be ready for us as a lead-ruck in the next what, 5 years / 6 years / 7 years ... ?


I just don't see the develop your own from scratch option as being a better road to getting a ruck

I don't think all other clubs have success with that strategy either.



Maybe. We have a ruck right now, and a possible line to new one next year. I don't think our backup is great, would have preferred a better backup option from a trade than Strachan.



I think he's a decent option. I do see that as a better option than having a developing ruck from the draft.

By not addressing it, we are now staring down the barrel at having to offer a below average player in Sam Draper a $1m/6 year deal.

 

[baldandbroke]

So I got up to Fremantle, so between 4 club, 10 rucks under 25, all drafted, some only very young. Now I haven’t gone through last nights draftees to see if they added anyone.

11 if I include Geelong.

So of the recent premiers:

Brisbane - 1
Pies - 3
Cats - 1

Yep, I can understand these being silly unsuccessful clubs making stupid decisions. Then there is Freo and Carlton, all with multiple young rucks. Recent finalists.

The exception from this list Adelaide - zero. Haven’t made finals since 2017.

Yep I know which clubs strategy I’d back.

Hang on - I think we are getting a few things overlapping here with no connector.

Do you think the reason we haven't played finals since 2017 is because we do not have a young developing ruckman - even one that might not have played a single game in the 1's?

 

[Velvet George]

Hang on - I think we are getting a few things overlapping here with no connector.

Do you think the reason we haven't played finals since 2017 is because we do not have a young developing ruckman - even one that might not have played a single game in the 1's?

No I don’t. I’m saying that we haven’t played finals because we have been a poor club and made stupid decisions.

I’m comparing that to the judgement shown by better clubs and they all have young developing rucks.

Therefore I don’t think we are smarter than the rest of the competition by basically being the only club without a young developing ruck, I consider it another stupid decision. Proof? We’ve dropped a club leader who is our lead ruck 2 years in a row and we are going in with the same 2 rucks in 2025 when we need to make finals.

 

[Velvet George]

By not addressing it, we are now staring down the barrel at having to offer a below average player in Sam Draper a $1m/6 year deal.

Exactly!!

 

[Crow till I die]

Who are the OOC rucks next year? draw up a hit list and plan to attract one. If Boyd does not get picked up this draft period, we should be making him a priority to get onto the list somehow next year along with one of the OOC rucks - release Strachan and trade O'brien if there is a taker. We have multiple 3rd rounders and thats where the value sits I would think.