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Review List Management

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Melbournes list management would be a good comparison against ours.
Dees side today

Average Age 25 yrs 11 mths
Average Games 104.5

Overall list
12 players aged 30+ on list
22 players aged 23 or younger on list

Our side yesterday
Average Age 24 yrs 10mths
Average Games 77

Overall list
6 players aged 30+ on list
27 players aged 23 or younger on list
 
throw your mum's kitchen sink at anyone willing to play for us. if 11 years 22m couldn't get harley reid to sign we are in a lot of trouble

Struggle to see how we get to the salary cap floor next year. TT and Hooper contracts would have been front loaded, so Balta, Nank, Short and Vlastuin are probably the only other players earning more than $500,000/year.

Should have heaps of money to spend on free agency.
 
Struggle to see how we get to the salary cap floor next year. TT and Hooper contracts would have been front loaded, so Balta, Nank, Short and Vlastuin are probably the only other players earning more than $500,000/year.

Should have heaps of money to spend on free agency.
The only way we get to meet the cap floor in 2026 is to front load just about every player on the list
 
That 2021 draft was kind of shit. Albeit we failed massively, especially with their development.

Not many players that we failed to select really.

Gibcus over NAS who was a couple spots after has turned on a massive blunder. But he's had his career destroyed with injuries.

Probably only Kai Lohman in the next picks after Brown who would have been a nice pick.

Paul Curtis is the big miss after the others. Bergman, Roberts and Hough the only other notable names.

Killing us having none of these guys playing a significant role atm. We are in a major rebuild, only reason half of these guys are still on the list.
Thats North delistee Miller Bergman btw
 

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Melbournes list management would be a good comparison against ours.
I don't think they're that different to us except Gawn and Kozzie are well ahead of any of our best players and they didn't sell their future for another flag, bringing in cheaper options like Checkers and Steele. Roo, Windsor, Latrelle, Langford and Lindsay all look good but I think we have as much young talent albeit injured.
 
Riddle me this munters

Ben Hobbs was recruited in 2021. He played 65 games for the Dons, averaging 15 disposals, 3.5 Tackles & kicked 21 goals/26 behinds.

From the 5 we took in 2021

Gibcus 22 Games, averaging 8 disposals. 3 goals, 1 tackle pg,3 marks pg.

Brown - 44 games. 13 disposals pg. 4 Marks. 10 Goals.

Clarke - 17 games. 8 Disposals. 14goals

Banks - 46 games. 17 disposals. 1.7 Tackles. 3.5 Marks

Sonsie - 14 games. 14 disposals. 3 Marks. 1 Tackle. 10 Goals.


Essendon cut Hobbs last year. If Richmond recruited him, how many more years would he have left on his contract?



Effectively if we had taken Hobbs in that draft, he'd likely be considered the best of the 5 we have, alongside Banks on current form. Even tho Hobbs was cut last year, he has still played 20 more games than any other player we took.

How are we putting games into the youth if thats the case? I think we are holding onto players far to long. Its a problem we had done many times in our past & we are still doing it. We don't have the balls to make "tough calls" that show "we ****ed up".

List management is being made around job preservation and not much else. If we start cutting the ppl who need to be cut, then many of the people in the club will lose their jobs. Its a purple circle, again.
Yeah that's not good. It makes me chuckle when I realise that they all come from the same draft as Nick Daicos and JHF, who have been performing well for a while now. Mac Andrew, Sam Darcy, Wanganeen-Milera، Lohmann, Matthew Johnson from Freo, Mitchito Owens, Jake Soligo all come from this draft.
 
Not sure I fully trust our recruitment anymore after the failure of the 2021 draft and skipping a player like Murphy Reid.

Still early days for 2024 draft, But im getting nervous with Taj (injury prone) Jonty (poor set shot and marking ability) Smilie can't even get on the pitch and has played zero footy for a long period of development time.

Lalor was an easy pick, and we would arguably be happy with Jagga or FOS, so I don't give our team much credit for that selection, but everything after that?

Not to mention the failure to find genuine role players in the mid-season drafts, as the bombers have done, and others.

What do you guys think about this list management team?
This is our run from 2017-2022

2017

:crossmark: Derek Eggmolesse-Smith - DELISTED

:whitecheck: Jack Higgins - TRADED

:crossmark: Callum Coleman-Jones - TRADED

:whitecheck: Noah Balta

:crossmark: Patrick Naish - DELISTED

❓ Ben Miller

:whitecheck: Liam Baker - TRADED


2018

:whitecheck: Tom Lynch

:crossmark: Riley Collier-Dawkins - DELISTED

:whitecheck: Jack Ross

:crossmark: Fraser Turner - DELISTED

:crossmark: Luke English - DELISTED

:crossmark: Jake Aarts - DELISTED

:crossmark: Sydney Stack - DELISTED

:crossmark: Maverick Weller - DELISTED

:whitecheck: Marlion Pickett - RETIRED


2019

:crossmark: Thomson Dow - DELISTED

:crossmark: Noah Cumberland - DELISTED

:crossmark: Will Martyn - DELISTED

❓ Hugo Ralphsmith

:crossmark: Bigoa Nyuon - TRADED/DELISTED

2020

:crossmark: Mate Colina - DELISTED

:crossmark: Samson Ryan - (calling it)

❓ Maurice Rioli - (closer to :whitecheck:)

:whitecheck: Rhyan Mansell

:crossmark: Matthew Parker - DELISTED

2021

:crossmark: Robbie Tarrant - RETIRED

:crossmark: Josh Gibcus (calling it)

❓ Tom Brown

❓ Tyler Sonsie

❓ Sam Banks

:crossmark: Judson Clarke (calling it)

:crossmark: Jacob Bauer - DELISTED


2022

:crossmark: Jacob Hopper

:whitecheck: Tim Taranto

❓ Kaleb Smith (looking closer to :crossmark:)

❓ Steely Green

:whitecheck: Seth Campbell

❓ Tylar Young - TRADED

:crossmark: Kaelan Bradtke - DELISTED

:crossmark: Matthew Coulthard - DELISTED

❓ James Trezise (looking closer to :crossmark:)


I know I'm being a bit harsh on Ben Miller and MRJ, but I need to be confident they won't go the other way before putting a check next to their name. Feel free to do your own ratings.

Point is, this is ordinary. Not one star drafted in this period, and only Lynch was AA-worthy in a Richmond jumper from those we traded in. We can't use our draft pick position as an excuse if we then don't bring in quality players like Geelong and Sydney do. Keeping our picks is a list management decision in of itself.

Why does Blair Hartley still have a job with us after this? I don't get it. We give Matt Clarke crap for stuffing up our drafting, but why Blair Hartley goes under the radar is beyond me. His position should be thoroughly reviewed
 
This is our run from 2017-2022

2017

:crossmark: Derek Eggmolesse-Smith - DELISTED

:whitecheck: Jack Higgins - TRADED

:crossmark: Callum Coleman-Jones - TRADED

:whitecheck: Noah Balta

:crossmark: Patrick Naish - DELISTED

❓ Ben Miller

:whitecheck: Liam Baker - TRADED


2018

:whitecheck: Tom Lynch

:crossmark: Riley Collier-Dawkins - DELISTED

:whitecheck: Jack Ross

:crossmark: Fraser Turner - DELISTED

:crossmark: Luke English - DELISTED

:crossmark: Jake Aarts - DELISTED

:crossmark: Sydney Stack - DELISTED

:crossmark: Maverick Weller - DELISTED

:whitecheck: Marlion Pickett - RETIRED


2019

:crossmark: Thomson Dow - DELISTED

:crossmark: Noah Cumberland - DELISTED

:crossmark: Will Martyn - DELISTED

❓ Hugo Ralphsmith

:crossmark: Bigoa Nyuon - TRADED/DELISTED

2020

:crossmark: Mate Colina - DELISTED

:crossmark: Samson Ryan - (calling it)

❓ Maurice Rioli - (closer to :whitecheck:)

:whitecheck: Rhyan Mansell

:crossmark: Matthew Parker - DELISTED

2021

:crossmark: Robbie Tarrant - RETIRED

:crossmark: Josh Gibcus (calling it)

❓ Tom Brown

❓ Tyler Sonsie

❓ Sam Banks

:crossmark: Judson Clarke (calling it)

:crossmark: Jacob Bauer - DELISTED


2022

:crossmark: Jacob Hopper

:whitecheck: Tim Taranto

❓ Kaleb Smith (looking closer to :crossmark:)

❓ Steely Green

:whitecheck: Seth Campbell

❓ Tylar Young - TRADED

:crossmark: Kaelan Bradtke - DELISTED

:crossmark: Matthew Coulthard - DELISTED

❓ James Trezise (looking closer to :crossmark:)


I know I'm being a bit harsh on Ben Miller and MRJ, but I need to be confident they won't go the other way before putting a check next to their name. Feel free to do your own ratings.

Point is, this is ordinary. Not one star drafted in this period, and only Lynch was AA-worthy in a Richmond jumper from those we traded in. We can't use our draft pick position as an excuse if we then don't bring in quality players like Geelong and Sydney do. Keeping our picks is a list management decision in of itself.

Why does Blair Hartley still have a job with us after this? I don't get it. We give Matt Clarke crap for stuffing up our drafting, but why Blair Hartley goes under the radar is beyond me. His position should be thoroughly reviewed
There’s a bit of research there.

How do you think some of those boys would have gone at say, Brisbane or Hawthorn? Would they have lived up to the potential they showed in their respective draft years?
 
There’s a bit of research there.

How do you think some of those boys would have gone at say, Brisbane or Hawthorn? Would they have lived up to the potential they showed in their respective draft years?
Good question, is it selection or development? Hard to tell sometimes, but the outcome remains bad either way. The results speak for themselves. We’ve already changed the development staff and our national recruiter and things started looking better over the last couple of years, but let’s see if the duds have actually left the building. If the current couple of drafts/trades bust over the next few years, then Hartley is next.
 

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There’s a bit of research there.

How do you think some of those boys would have gone at say, Brisbane or Hawthorn? Would they have lived up to the potential they showed in their respective draft years?
I can’t quite remember what was happening from 2017 - 2020 that may have changed the way we drafted and the picks we had.
 
Dees side today

Average Age 25 yrs 11 mths
Average Games 104.5

Overall list
12 players aged 30+ on list
22 players aged 23 or younger on list

Our side yesterday
Average Age 24 yrs 10mths
Average Games 77

Overall list
6 players aged 30+ on list
27 players aged 23 or younger on list
What about the coach me thinks King is way beyond our magician? Everyone thought they will be another essendon but one change shows how you can make a diffrence.
 
This is our run from 2017-2022

2017

:crossmark: Derek Eggmolesse-Smith - DELISTED

:whitecheck: Jack Higgins - TRADED

:crossmark: Callum Coleman-Jones - TRADED

:whitecheck: Noah Balta

:crossmark: Patrick Naish - DELISTED

❓ Ben Miller

:whitecheck: Liam Baker - TRADED


2018

:whitecheck: Tom Lynch

:crossmark: Riley Collier-Dawkins - DELISTED

:whitecheck: Jack Ross

:crossmark: Fraser Turner - DELISTED

:crossmark: Luke English - DELISTED

:crossmark: Jake Aarts - DELISTED

:crossmark: Sydney Stack - DELISTED

:crossmark: Maverick Weller - DELISTED

:whitecheck: Marlion Pickett - RETIRED


2019

:crossmark: Thomson Dow - DELISTED

:crossmark: Noah Cumberland - DELISTED

:crossmark: Will Martyn - DELISTED

❓ Hugo Ralphsmith

:crossmark: Bigoa Nyuon - TRADED/DELISTED

2020

:crossmark: Mate Colina - DELISTED

:crossmark: Samson Ryan - (calling it)

❓ Maurice Rioli - (closer to :whitecheck:)

:whitecheck: Rhyan Mansell

:crossmark: Matthew Parker - DELISTED

2021

:crossmark: Robbie Tarrant - RETIRED

:crossmark: Josh Gibcus (calling it)

❓ Tom Brown

❓ Tyler Sonsie

❓ Sam Banks

:crossmark: Judson Clarke (calling it)

:crossmark: Jacob Bauer - DELISTED


2022

:crossmark: Jacob Hopper

:whitecheck: Tim Taranto

❓ Kaleb Smith (looking closer to :crossmark:)

❓ Steely Green

:whitecheck: Seth Campbell

❓ Tylar Young - TRADED

:crossmark: Kaelan Bradtke - DELISTED

:crossmark: Matthew Coulthard - DELISTED

❓ James Trezise (looking closer to :crossmark:)


I know I'm being a bit harsh on Ben Miller and MRJ, but I need to be confident they won't go the other way before putting a check next to their name. Feel free to do your own ratings.

Point is, this is ordinary. Not one star drafted in this period, and only Lynch was AA-worthy in a Richmond jumper from those we traded in. We can't use our draft pick position as an excuse if we then don't bring in quality players like Geelong and Sydney do. Keeping our picks is a list management decision in of itself.

Why does Blair Hartley still have a job with us after this? I don't get it. We give Matt Clarke crap for stuffing up our drafting, but why Blair Hartley goes under the radar is beyond me. His position should be thoroughly reviewed
Been saying it for years Hartley been living on Francis Jackson's pics where his youth recruiting is probably the worst in the comp.
 
There’s a bit of research there.

How do you think some of those boys would have gone at say, Brisbane or Hawthorn? Would they have lived up to the potential they showed in their respective draft years?
Humm those clubs would not even have given them a look.
 
I can’t quite remember what was happening from 2017 - 2020 that may have changed the way we drafted and the picks we had.
Not much we got lucky in 16 getting caddy prestia Nank and rioli which all clubs didn't want and was dropping down the order but we got him cause of the name. The youth recruiting otherwise is the same.
 
There’s a bit of research there.

How do you think some of those boys would have gone at say, Brisbane or Hawthorn? Would they have lived up to the potential they showed in their respective draft years?
I mean there has been multiple players in our VFL program that have gone on to be A graders or Best 22 * for other clubs
 

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Interesting interview with Adem on Agenda Setters, hinting at major acquisitions.
Hope they recruit a quality ruck for next year.
Madden should be a top priority.
 
How do you think some of those boys would have gone at say, Brisbane or Hawthorn? Would they have lived up to the potential they showed in their respective draft years?
I reckon we have a massive player development problem. I'm loathe to say Cumberland, Sonsie, Stack, etc. were bad draftees so much as we failed to develop them properly. Hell Eggmolese-Smith got 2 brownlow votes out of 9 games... although admittedly we weren't so talent-starved back then.

The other thing missing from that list is that we should have had a few more bites of the cherry. Ryan, Colina, Lefau and Gibcus got generous re: contracts and extensions. Some of our players like Jack and now Prestia should have retired a year earlier. We might have found more players if we were giving more guys a go.
 
Gibcus the least of our worries bloke hasn't played for 2 seasons and people on to him no idea. We got to many list cloggers senior players and middle tier they need to go or retire Saturday's game and since rd 1 clearly shows it.
 

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