List Mgmt. List quality 2016 vs 2017

[THE_GUN]

Sorry to rain on the parade but....

Yet again the tiger faithful continue to over rate and see something nobody else can. I would argue we are unchanged which isn't great in the scheme of the comp as we should be improving our list each year. I am somewhat disappointed we didn't recruit a KPF to replace Ty and Bean. Chol and Moore aren't anywhere near ready and that leaves us with just Jack, Griff and Elton unless we throw a ruck up there. Down back we have Rance & Astbury then nothing much more. Grimes can play taller but I would shudder to imagine him King up on anyone's 2nd forward. We now have a list full of mids and flankers, we added some more speed but neglected talls. How this plays out will be anyone's guess.

I know there is much hate for our club and people dream of us coming ninth but the reality is we are just a run of the mill team. I can see that, most of the footy world can see that but not many in here.

Who should we have recruited in your opinion ?

 

[TheProwler]

Who should we have recruited in your opinion ?

Don't know, I am not a paid recruiter to scour the country for talent but to ignore this gaping hole is a dangerous game. This should have been addressed in past drafts too not just this one.

You can't tell me there isn't a KPF playing WAFL or SANFL that we could have rookie drafted as backup. No went for more of the same.

 

[THE_GUN]

Don't know, I am not a paid recruiter to scour the country for talent but to ignore this gaping hole is a dangerous game. This should have been addressed in past drafts too not just this one.

You can't tell me there isn't a KPF playing WAFL or SANFL that we could have rookie drafted as backup. No went for more of the same.

Then Clearly the people that are paid recruiters who DO scour the country for talent deemed that the talent available at our selections were not of the quality that would be long term KPP and would just need to be delisted in 4 years time. But if we did do that then next year when the Quality KPP are available we would need to select them and then we have an issue with another 2 Elton's sitting on our list along side 2 of the quality 2017 KPP ?

You go for the best talent when it presents mate

 

[Hans McGregor]

They're a bunch of imbeciles, so who cares?

We don't perform well with high expectations so if they want to set the bar low it's fine by me.

 

[TheProwler]

Then Clearly the people that are paid recruiters who DO scour the country for talent deemed that the talent available at our selections were not of the quality that would be long term KPP and would just need to be delisted in 4 years time. But if we did do that then next year when the Quality KPP are available we would need to select them and then we have an issue with another 2 Elton's sitting on our list along side 2 of the quality 2017 KPP ?

You go for the best talent when it presents mate

Okay I didn't know we couldn't rookie someone as backup this year and recruit a KPF next year.

What is the plan should one of or "cough" both forwards or defenders go down and would you say we have improved our list in this recruiting period? We saw last year the effects of a few injuries and how that unravelled our game style.

The club has neglected recruiting and development of KP players for several years and our list depth clearly indicates that. Face it our list is poor in that area thus reflects how the media etc rate us.

 

[theflea]

Okay I didn't know we couldn't rookie someone as backup this year and recruit a KPF next year.

What is the plan should one of or "cough" both forwards or defenders go down and would you say we have improved our list in this recruiting period? We saw last year the effects of a few injuries and how that unravelled our game style.

The club has neglected recruiting and development of KP players for several years and our list depth clearly indicates that. Face it our list is poor in that area thus reflects how the media etc rate us.

I think there was a dearth of good available/gettable talls this trade season. However I do agree, we have not drafted well enough in this area, over the last 2/3 years.

 

[Calcium Man]

Sorry to rain on the parade but....

Yet again the tiger faithful continue to over rate and see something nobody else can. I would argue we are unchanged which isn't great in the scheme of the comp as we should be improving our list each year. I am somewhat disappointed we didn't recruit a KPF to replace Ty and Bean. Chol and Moore aren't anywhere near ready and that leaves us with just Jack, Griff and Elton unless we throw a ruck up there. Down back we have Rance & Astbury then nothing much more. Grimes can play taller but I would shudder to imagine him King up on anyone's 2nd forward. We now have a list full of mids and flankers, we added some more speed but neglected talls. How this plays out will be anyone's guess.

I know there is much hate for our club and people dream of us coming ninth but the reality is we are just a run of the mill team. I can see that, most of the footy world can see that but not many in here.

This is comparing the 2015 to 2016 list not looking at the holes on our list, which are exactly what you've pointed out.

Their is no doubt in my mind the quality is better this year with our only real loss being Lids.

Prestia and Caddy are walk up starts in our best 22 and become our 3rd and 4th best midfielders respectively. I also think if Nankervis builds his tank he is ahead of Hampson.

The rest is about development. Most of our kids like Markov, Rioli, Menadue, Short, CEllis and Vlastuin should be better.

 

[Goldust]

I wouldnt base any of your thoughts on the main board poll lol

Our list is far better placed this year imo, deledio wasnt really a loss in comparison to last year cause he barely played, vickery leaving is addition by subtraction.

Weve added 3 young guys who are ready to come in a make an impact in Prestia, Caddy and Nank. We drafted best available at our picks and IMO we did very well. We took a punt on a highly talented kid in the rookie draft who im excited about.

Dont see how we are worse off.

As far as list i would least like to have moving forward, my order is:
1. Norf
2. Carltoon
3. Freo
4. Geelol

Ok Deledio barely played, yet played more games than Prestia who is a huge plus?
The same Prestia who has averaged 13 games the last two years?

 

[RememberRoyce]

The rest is about development. Most of our kids like Markov, Rioli, Menadue, Short, CEllis and Vlastuin should be better.

The problem with this argument is every team is expecting the same from their 2-3 year players.

 

[Goldust]

I think there was a dearth of good available/gettable talls this trade season. However I do agree, we have not drafted well enough in this area, over the last 2/3 years.

Did we inquire about anyone?
I mean, was Lids gettable at the start of the trade period? No! He became available in the last few days.
So were we making inquiries or trying to lure a tall?

 

[Nantes]

Definitely better IMO. But I think the list is still being overrated. The drop off is obviously pretty big.

 

[TigerImposter]

The comparison next years to this years is irrelevant to me bc improving on the 2016 list could be achieved simply as the list was a disaster based on 7 years of xxxx ups by an incompetent FD.
The question or concerns all RFC supporters should be asking is ,"Has our list improved at a significant rate to pass our major competitors based on their final lists?" I bluntly say no simply bc we look like we have a list with a little bit of this and a little bit of that . A cross between a club of short people with two good talls and three decent mids,a handful of developing young players all backed up with a pile of C to D graders who would struggle to get get gigs elsewhere. Improving on last years list ,hahaha whatever floats your boat . Have we improved against the market ?? Pffffft

 

[THE_GUN]

Okay I didn't know we couldn't rookie someone as backup this year and recruit a KPF next year.

What is the plan should one of or "cough" both forwards or defenders go down and would you say we have improved our list in this recruiting period? We saw last year the effects of a few injuries and how that unravelled our game style.

The club has neglected recruiting and development of KP players for several years and our list depth clearly indicates that. Face it our list is poor in that area thus reflects how the media etc rate us.

Mate seriously that is a load of crap and your just shooting from the hip without knowing what your talking about.
Vickery,Post,Astbury,Elton,McBean,McKenzie,Moore,Chol We have drafted them and with decent picks - But the problem has been that our recruiting has been s**t and some not developed properly.

You say what do we do if 1 or 2 go down , Ill tell you - we loose more games but we are never going to win a flag in the next 2-3 years anyway so we have time to find them next year with our better picks and maybe FA
So rather than finish 8th we will finish 12th lol not the end of the world and its not as if it will be the difference in us losing a GF

Just remember this s**t Depth is not Depth, Unless its quality dont bother because we already have that quality there in Elton and some young guys until they develop

 

[Azzleberry]

"They look thin in key backs after Rance (and if he goes down what then?)"

I hate this argument, you can say that about any star from any team.

What if Dangerfield goes down? What if Buddy goes down? What then?

Also to label Prestia as "solid" when his numbers were equal to Dangerfield and Selwood in 2015 is a pessimistic assessment IMO, and if that's justified due to injury, then the loss of Deledio should be dampened by the same logic.

We can't replace Vickery? Thank God! I don't want a Vickery replacement thank you very much! Bolton and Rioli will have to suffice

The media are underestimating Prestia. Its funny how people forget, after 1 interrupted year, how good a player was. Prestia was vice captain at GCS, was probably their 2nd/3rd best mid behind Gaz and has so much more growth left in him to take his game to another level.
Prestia will match 2016 Deledio output at a bare minimum
Caddy is a + and provides more depth
Nankervis will match Vickery 2016 output
And none of the other players we lost gave us much in 2016
Therefore we have improved our list and depth significantly. That's not even taking into account that all these players have at least 6-7 years left in them and the draftees could even make an impact on 2017

 

[Azzleberry]

I would suggest we are in a similar boat to last year.
For mine the caliber of player on the list has slightly improved, but the make-up of the list needs severe work.
We have no reliable ruck outside Nankervis and he is on trial as a potential regular (most know my views on Hampson, Maric was cooked last year and Soldo is light years away).
We have one star defender and one star forward, the others injury-prone and inconsistent and simply no depth. Vickery, for all his many faults, was our number two tall forward and anyone who thinks the likes of Elton, Chol and Moore will come anywhere close to what Ty di are kidding themselves. That said, glad he's been moved on.
I would need to see evidence Prestia can play more than 12-14 games to say our midfield has improved.

On pure 2016 output we haven't lost a lot...
Vickery didn't do much in 2016 and was dropped continuously
Deledio had injuries and missed a lot
Chaplin hardly played
The other delisted players offered 0

Injuries permitting, I would be expecting 20+ games out of Prestia and caddy
15+ games out of Nankervis
5+ games out of Bolton

So I think automatically we improve.

Agree though on the talls: Elton, Moore and Chol won't play ones and if they do won't offer much.

Hampson is a worry but that will match 2016 output and Ivan is done and Soldo won't play ones either

 

[Azzleberry]

Then Clearly the people that are paid recruiters who DO scour the country for talent deemed that the talent available at our selections were not of the quality that would be long term KPP and would just need to be delisted in 4 years time. But if we did do that then next year when the Quality KPP are available we would need to select them and then we have an issue with another 2 Elton's sitting on our list along side 2 of the quality 2017 KPP ?

You go for the best talent when it presents mate

I don't think we will take 2 KPP in the 2017 draft. Doesn't make sense- they will take 2-3 years to develop and 5-6 years to start peaking. By that time Cotchin, Jack, Rance are all at the end or gone. I think we might take 1 but will use one of those picks on a 22-25 yo KPP from another side or even use both for a genuine gun KPP

 

[_RT_]

Heading into 2017 we rank:

8th for average age at 23 years 344 days.
11th for average games at 62
13th for average goals with 36
14th for final experience with a total 65 finals games
17th for players to debut with only 6 players yet to debut, Geelong have 14
17th for teenagers with only 5 on the list. Only Saints have fewer.
11th for players from other clubs with 10. Dogs only have 5
18th for players over 30 with just Maric.
9th for players with 100 games with 11, WCE have 19

 

[THE_GUN]

where can we get the average age for teams with the new players included ?

 

[_RT_]

I can see where Quayle is coming from and kind of agree with her.

Midfield:
For mine this will be the area we improve the most. With Cotchin Martin Miles Caddy Pretia Edwards Vlastuin C.Ellis & Graham as inside types we should have an improved ability to win contested footy. On the outside we have B.Ellis Grigg(both play better on the outside as link up mids) Menadue McIntosh Conca and Markov who are capable of running all day and moving the ball quickly from the back half into our F50.

KPP Stocks:
Rance and Riewoldt are proven guns, the others in Astbury Griffiths Elton Chol Moore & Garthwaite are either serviceable or unproven. So we're really going to need some of them to step up especially if one or both of Jack and Alex get hurt.

Rucks:
Hampson was good enough last year and Nankervis is a good addition who helps with our depth but is still only 12 games into his career so will need to step up if asked to play the number 1 role should Hampson get hurt again. Outside that an aging Maric who is effectively cooked and a raw Soldo mean a couple of injuries could hurt us big time.

Flankers/Pockets:
There is some class there in Grimes Lennon Houli Lloyd & Rioli, some promising youth in Drummond Short & Castagna, some honest toilers in Batchelor Broad Hunt Morris Lambert & Townsend and unknown quantities in Bolton Butler & Stengle. For us to improve we need a lot fewer numbers in the honest toilers/unknown quanitites categories and more in the class/promising youth categories.

As I said I can see why Quayle has us rated down, but can also see why we can become a side that surprises a lot of people if we can get it right.

 

[_RT_]

where can we get the average age for teams with the new players included ?

The AFL site did a breakdown of all lists and posted it this morning.

 

[theflea]

Did we inquire about anyone?
I mean, was Lids gettable at the start of the trade period? No! He became available in the last few days.
So were we making inquiries or trying to lure a tall?

Well this is the point, is we don't know and coming to the conclusion we didn't, just isn't fair on anyone. Who know's what was said during the trade period, but suspect none came available, as there really is a shortage of good talls. There was plenty of ordinary one ie Richards and Brown. Plus if they are good enough it would cost a lot in a trade, which is fine, but I don't think we had much to trade with.

 

[loser 81 2 16]

'Weren't able to replace Ty Vickery'
Surely we could easily go buy a singular potato and still fit under the salary cap if we needed to

it always makes me laugh...anyway

 

[Stevi_Tigers]

think the club has addressed this to be honest. we now have better midfield depth a ruck to take over hampson and 2 first round draft picks for next year. in the grand scheme of things we wont win the flag next year. and 2 hopefully early picks sets the club up for 10 years.

 

[THE_GUN]

The AFL site did a breakdown of all lists and posted it this morning.

Thanks for that RT

Richmond 8th oldest list with 23 years 344 days 62 games average
Collingwood 11th 23 years 319 days 64 games average
Carlton 14th 23 years 299 days 53 games average

45 days difference between Carlton & Richmond , Maric (31) Morris (28) who are no longer best 25 and should have been delisted as well as Yarran (26) If we had of made the correct calls on these 3 players and delisted them and taken another 3 young players i would say that we would have been easily 14th oldest list with similar games experience in games as Carlton But with a much stronger list than we have now

We are actually in the middle of a rebuild now, All we really need to do is trade out players like Edwards,Batchelor,Conca,Lambert,Miles for some picks or even just upgrades and go into a draft in a stronger position and get 1 maybe 2 Free agents to be back into contention with a list that has more scope and higher ceiling with development

 

[NZ_Tiger]

I think we will struggle again as the list is poor to average. Our midfield, one of the bottom few last season, will be a little more competitive but it won't paper over the terrible drafting of the last six years. The drop off from our top 7-8 to next group is massive and after that it's an even spread of lack of talent from 7-22.