List Mgmt. List quality 2016 vs 2017

[Ancient Tiger]

The fact is nobody knows where we'll finish up next year.
Last year many of those so called experts had us almost top 4 for 2016.

It just shows how wrong they can be.

Personally I think the additions outweigh the losses by a considerable margin. Two guys just hitting their prime and determined to show their new club and the world they're good have been added. A young ruck who shows he loves competing and the tough stuff too. Added x factor and a contested ball beast in Graham.

We've lost a spud who kicked a lot of goals out the back. Lids was injured and Yaz didn't ever run on to the field. Chaplin was cooked too.

How the hell have we gone backwards?

 

[THE_GUN]

Players that could go backwards and decline
Hampson
Maric
Hunt
Batchelor
Lloyd
Grigg
Houli

The rest of the list can only either play at similar level or improve, Major improvements expected from
Rioli
Markov
Drummond
Short
Vlastuin
Conca
Cellis
McIntosh
Lennon
Butcher
Bellis

I just see way too many young players that have shown some talent & Ability to perform at the highest level and natural expectation is to develop into consistant afl players

 

[RememberRoyce]

How the hell have we gone backwards?

Listen!
Within our four walls, we know there are a lot of good teams, and Vickery was highly rated by the playing group though. As this is the best list to ever have available, we know the members expect more.

 

[Noseybonk]

'Weren't able to replace Ty Vickery'
Surely we could easily go buy a singular potato and still fit under the salary cap if we needed to

Potatoes with waving arms are like hens teeth.

 

[TigerImposter]

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2016-12-03/total-list-breakdown-all-the-key-stats

 

[Nantes]

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2016-12-03/total-list-breakdown-all-the-key-stats

Those stats would indicate a very succesful last few years.....

 

[blaisee]

List quality is irrelevant when you have a coach who has no idea, and who the players despise and who the fans have grown to hate.

We will be bottom 4 next year, hopefully he gets sacked by round 12, then we can actually have some hope.

 

[TigerImposter]

 

[wegetpumped]

Mark my words guys we will be much better in 2017, we will kick many goals.

I hope you are right m8 otherwise we will need to kick some more behinds.

 

[wegetpumped]

Sorry to rain on the parade but....

Yet again the tiger faithful continue to over rate and see something nobody else can. I would argue we are unchanged which isn't great in the scheme of the comp as we should be improving our list each year. I am somewhat disappointed we didn't recruit a KPF to replace Ty and Bean. Chol and Moore aren't anywhere near ready and that leaves us with just Jack, Griff and Elton unless we throw a ruck up there. Down back we have Rance & Astbury then nothing much more. Grimes can play taller but I would shudder to imagine him King up on anyone's 2nd forward. We now have a list full of mids and flankers, we added some more speed but neglected talls. How this plays out will be anyone's guess.

I know there is much hate for our club and people dream of us coming ninth but the reality is we are just a run of the mill team. I can see that, most of the footy world can see that but not many in here.

The thing is prowler the thread asks if we have improved the list?
I'm called a negative head but sorry if you think the players we have brought in isn't an improvement than i don't know. If you couple the ins and outs it should show you the real picture.
I know if rance or dusty or jack goes down we are f---- but they were there last season and will be there this season so in retrospect to the thread it is non stackable.

 

[Goldust]

The thing is prowler the thread asks if we have improved the list?
I'm called a negative head but sorry if you think the players we have brought in isn't an improvement than i don't know. If you couple the ins and outs it should show you the real picture.
I know if rance or dusty or jack goes down we are f---- but they were there last season and will be there this season so in retrospect to the thread it is non stackable.

As many have said, we have improved certain parts of the list, certain parts of the list have declined.

 

[Dr Tigris]

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2016-12-03/total-list-breakdown-all-the-key-stats

What a strange array of stats.

What I take away is that we are middle of the road for most of those stats. We don't have many kids, but only 1 over 30 (Ivan so not central). So we are reasonably mature, without being really up there. We have blooded most of the kids.

Some clubs have loaded up strongly one way or another. WC going for broke for a title, Norf going for kids.

The thing that that list does show me is that we might be setting up for big draft next year. We have quite few ready to be delisted in 2017. So we could easily become both more experienced and younger. Otherwise - meh. Journo's with nothign to do and no understanding of how to tell a story with statistics.

 

[TigerImposter]

What a strange array of stats.

What I take away is that we are middle of the road for most of those stats. We don't have many kids, but only 1 over 30 (Ivan so not central). So we are reasonably mature, without being really up there. We have blooded most of the kids.

Some clubs have loaded up strongly one way or another. WC going for broke for a title, Norf going for kids.

The thing that that list does show me is that we might be setting up for big draft next year. We have quite few ready to be delisted in 2017. So we could easily become both more experienced and younger. Otherwise - meh. Journo's with nothign to do and no understanding of how to tell a story with statistics.

You Pretty well summed it up DrT

 

[Dr Tigris]

You Pretty well summed it up DrT

Doesn't really tell us much

Then the journo has made their money by having us discuss their 'analysis'.

Off season

 

[Roachy8]

Overall about the same IMO (possibly could have voted better - just)
Improvements in ready to go mids + future speedy, creative high half-forward types + Nankervis addressed the ruck issue shorter term.

However apart from a young KP back who was drafted, beyond the starting 22 our general key position stocks are low on number and quality.

 

[wegetpumped]

As many have said, we have improved certain parts of the list, certain parts of the list have declined.

Which parts have declined? Someone said we haven't upgraded vickery and mcbean i mean come on. We obviously are working on a changed gameplan and they strengthen those parts. Hold on dh is still coaching forget what i said lol.
But seriously people are bringing up a lot of ifs and buts. Overall our list is in better shape from this year.

 

[THE_GUN]

We just dont have the value in our non essential players like Batchelor,Grimes,Edwards,Astbury,Grigg,Houli etc to be able to improve a draft situation.

Its either go for youth at #88 or just take the 3 essential picks + Rookies to try to find gems and try to get some players via FA

The information i would love to see is what we are paying for players like Houli,Grigg,Maric,Hampson,Hunt,Morris,Batchelor,Grimes
these players are role players that would probably not get to another club and shouldnt be getting more than $200k a year so we have the dollars to spend on the top end talent like Martin,Rance,Jack etc whilst still having enough room to consistantly get quality FA coming into the club.

For all of Sydney swans TPP issue's Their role players are on very little coin

 

[Calcium Man]

We just dont have the value in our non essential players like Batchelor,Grimes,Edwards,Astbury,Grigg,Houli etc to be able to improve a draft situation.

Its either go for youth at #88 or just take the 3 essential picks + Rookies to try to find gems and try to get some players via FA

The information i would love to see is what we are paying for players like Houli,Grigg,Maric,Hampson,Hunt,Morris,Batchelor,Grimes
these players are role players that would probably not get to another club and shouldnt be getting more than $200k a year so we have the dollars to spend on the top end talent like Martin,Rance,Jack etc whilst still having enough room to consistantly get quality FA coming into the club.

For all of Sydney swans TPP issue's Their role players are on very little coin

The others I agree with but I reckon Edwards and Grimes have value but we wouldn't be interested in losing them.

 

[mopsy]

I think there was a dearth of good available/gettable talls this trade season. However I do agree, we have not drafted well enough in this area, over the last 2/3 years.

Disagree.
Nearly every club took a young ruckman most took at least one tall and the only area this draft was short of talls was KPF.

There was a hell of a lot of options in the f/a trade period as well.
IMO we are 4 to 6 genuine talls short on the list depending on how you rate players and the roles they perform. You could also take into account performances to date and the likely need for upgrades.

Heres a list of our talls and their roles.

Astbury kpd - we have him and he makes up the list but reality is we should be looking for better yet he is only one of two who can play kpd AT AFL atm.
Rance kpd - lose him and where are we.There isn't even an average kpd on the list to come in if injury does hit.
Garthwaite - third tall option. at pick 72 who in their right mind would say he will make it odds say he probably won't.
Grimes med/sml defender - Yes he is tall but we rarely play him in the tall role he is more valuable playing on sml/med types. I put him here anyway.

Clearly two KPDS short possibly three and probably a third tall as well.

Riewoldt Kpf - see Rance it is a problem that is mirrored.
Griffiths kpf - very lucky to have survived so long. Has clearly performed way below the required level and enters yr 8.
Elton Kpf - Put him here because this is the last stop for him. yr 6 and like Griffiths done nothing yet we are banking on him making it.
Moore Third tall - A rookie player in yr 2. Surely when looking at our talls they ask what is the likelyhood of them making it.Surely where we take them has to come into it.

One kpf short but it looks more like three. Could do with another third tall fwd as well.

Hampson - well this bloke polarises opinion. Has many short comings and we should be aiming for better.
Maric - should have been delisted and given a job within the club.
Nankervis - Imo a good get but was 3rd 4th string option at his previous club.Gotta prove he can play at the level now.
Soldo - As a rookie i like this as well a long term project ruck should be on everyones list ,what odds of him making it though has to be asked?

Ivan needs to be replaced s0 we need at least one Ruckman. Depending on how you rate Hampson could be two.

Chol - he projects more as a ruck/fwd to me again taken very late and the history says not a lot make it with these type of picks.
We could do with another in development imo.

Two players i would have went hard at hoping to get one Eric MacKenzie and Nathan Brown plus others. For gods sake Lynden Dunn would have at least given us some cover in case of injury and henry schade is a player i like. There was three kpds available to us at pick 29 and i like the look of all of them. Brennan Cox, Harrison Macreadie and Josh Rotham People saying we had no options are making excuses for them, there were a few state league options big Mihocek comes to mind. i dont get it why does every player we take have to be a long term propisition anyway.

 

[partycorolla]

List quality is irrelevant when you have a coach who has no idea, and who the players despise and who the fans have grown to hate.

We will be bottom 4 next year, hopefully he gets sacked by round 12, then we can actually have some hope.

That's the spirit

Please bring more player quotes confirming all you have said

 

[TheProwler]

The thing is prowler the thread asks if we have improved the list?
I'm called a negative head but sorry if you think the players we have brought in isn't an improvement than i don't know. If you couple the ins and outs it should show you the real picture.
I know if rance or dusty or jack goes down we are f---- but they were there last season and will be there this season so in retrospect to the thread it is non stackable.

Did you read the link in the OP?

List quality wise we haven't improved. Status quo at best. If Caddy or Prestia get anywhere near as good as Deledio I will be overjoyed. We lost a key forward/ruck (as ordinary as he was due to our club accepting mediocre efforts) who provided structure which as a result now will really affect our team selection this year. Griffiths isn't anywhere near as durable as Ty nor as efficient in his goals per game avg. Don't get me wrong I hated Ty's output but at least he provided structure and depth and chipped in for a goal each week. If Griff doesn't perform or succumbs to injury then who replaces him? Elton, Chol, Moore are all not ready yet and 2016 showed how our side performs when tested for depth. I guess we could use slow old Ivan or hammer if Nankervis goes #1 ruck. Down back we are worse but have recruited a future defender and fingers crossed with him.

Maybe our game style will change this year and we move it forward quicker off the back of recruiting more speed but I'm not holding my breath for that.

That's my thoughts, like or not!

 

[wegetpumped]

Did you read the link in the OP?

List quality wise we haven't improved. Status quo at best. If Caddy or Prestia get anywhere near as good as Deledio I will be overjoyed. We lost a key forward/ruck (as ordinary as he was due to our club accepting mediocre efforts) who provided structure which as a result now will really affect our team selection this year. Griffiths isn't anywhere near as durable as Ty nor as efficient in his goals per game avg. Don't get me wrong I hated Ty's output but at least he provided structure and depth and chipped in for a goal each week. If Griff doesn't perform or succumbs to injury then who replaces him? Elton, Chol, Moore are all not ready yet and 2016 showed how our side performs when tested for depth. I guess we could use slow old Ivan or hammer if Nankervis goes #1 ruck. Down back we are worse but have recruited a future defender and fingers crossed with him.

Maybe our game style will change this year and we move it forward quicker off the back of recruiting more speed but I'm not holding my breath for that.

That's my thoughts, like or not!

Caddy will give us more output than what lids did this year and prestia will be a plus. Back line is the same as this year so how have we gone back. I'm like you i won't be holding my breath next year but overall i think we have improved the list. God willing the recruits might give us some cream as the last few years we haven't had much.

 

[Goldust]

Caddy will give us more output than what lids did this year and prestia will be a plus. Back line is the same as this year so how have we gone back. I'm like you i won't be holding my breath next year but overall i think we have improved the list. God willing the recruits might give us some cream as the last few years we haven't had much.

Using your Lids theory, Prestia won't be a plus and can be counted on to play 12 games maximum.

 

[Goldust]

Disagree.
Nearly every club took a young ruckman most took at least one tall and the only area this draft was short of talls was KPF.

There was a hell of a lot of options in the f/a trade period as well.
IMO we are 4 to 6 genuine talls short on the list depending on how you rate players and the roles they perform. You could also take into account performances to date and the likely need for upgrades.

Heres a list of our talls and their roles.

Astbury kpd - we have him and he makes up the list but reality is we should be looking for better yet he is only one of two who can play kpd AT AFL atm.
Rance kpd - lose him and where are we.There isn't even an average kpd on the list to come in if injury does hit.
Garthwaite - third tall option. at pick 72 who in their right mind would say he will make it odds say he probably won't.
Grimes med/sml defender - Yes he is tall but we rarely play him in the tall role he is more valuable playing on sml/med types. I put him here anyway.

Clearly two KPDS short possibly three and probably a third tall as well.

Riewoldt Kpf - see Rance it is a problem that is mirrored.
Griffiths kpf - very lucky to have survived so long. Has clearly performed way below the required level and enters yr 8.
Elton Kpf - Put him here because this is the last stop for him. yr 6 and like Griffiths done nothing yet we are banking on him making it.
Moore Third tall - A rookie player in yr 2. Surely when looking at our talls they ask what is the likelyhood of them making it.Surely where we take them has to come into it.

One kpf short but it looks more like three. Could do with another third tall fwd as well.

Hampson - well this bloke polarises opinion. Has many short comings and we should be aiming for better.
Maric - should have been delisted and given a job within the club.
Nankervis - Imo a good get but was 3rd 4th string option at his previous club.Gotta prove he can play at the level now.
Soldo - As a rookie i like this as well a long term project ruck should be on everyones list ,what odds of him making it though has to be asked?

Ivan needs to be replaced s0 we need at least one Ruckman. Depending on how you rate Hampson could be two.

Chol - he projects more as a ruck/fwd to me again taken very late and the history says not a lot make it with these type of picks.
We could do with another in development imo.

Two players i would have went hard at hoping to get one Eric MacKenzie and Nathan Brown plus others. For gods sake Lynden Dunn would have at least given us some cover in case of injury and henry schade is a player i like. There was three kpds available to us at pick 29 and i like the look of all of them. Brennan Cox, Harrison Macreadie and Josh Rotham People saying we had no options are making excuses for them, there were a few state league options big Mihocek comes to mind. i dont get it why does every player we take have to be a long term propisition anyway.

EXCELLENT post and 100 per cent correct.
Just amazed people can't se the forest for the trees!

 

[TheProwler]

Caddy will give us more output than what lids did this year and prestia will be a plus. Back line is the same as this year so how have we gone back. I'm like you i won't be holding my breath next year but overall i think we have improved the list. God willing the recruits might give us some cream as the last few years we haven't had much.

List quality not output for 2016. Yes on 2016 Caddy has it on Lids easily but overall quality, no way.

Backline is weaker as swing man in Griffiths is now #2 forward thus weaker defence. Also lost bad knees Chaplin.