List Mgmt. List structure 2021 - how many spots do we have? (2 rookie spots available)

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Jen2310 said:
Bianco was highest ranked on the board when we chose him. He slid because the draft was that even. Lets not write 19 year old players off in their first year lol
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Agree. Unless blatantly obvious they wont make it.

Especially when we keep the likes of Wills on our list for a decent whack of time to play vfl
 
Timmy from Thomastown said:
This might depend on how many picks we end up at the pointy end of the draft and where Reef gets bit at. If we end up with enough draftees in the top 20 then we don’t need to be picking up another three at the tail.

We could have as many as four (including Reef) in the top 20 of we play our cards right from here. That might save one or two of Lynch Wills or Appleby. We will have lost a lot of depth by the time 2021 rolls around
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The scuttlebutt is that as few as 50-60 kids could be taken in total across the ND and rookie draft this year due to list cuts. That's down from 107 in 2019, 130 in 2018, and 114 in 2017. There'll be some kids on Hines power rankings who'll slide and I'd prefer we back Hines talent spotting and take the chance to grab the next Aarts, or Baker or Checkers, or Wilkie. Even Ruscoe last year was taken mid 50's.

In terms of depth, Appleby is flexible but with Bianco and Ruscoe and Murphy and the Brown boys I'd prefer to see them given the opportunity. Wills is a grunt midfielder but I'd prefer to see Rantall or Sier or the Brown boys given those opportunities. Lynch is probably the toughest to cover but with Cameron recruited last year I think we've got enough ruck coverage. I like Apples and Lynch and would love to see them retained, but in a cost benefit I think the draft offers more upside.
 

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First list lodgement is today; hopefully we have some of the rookie promotions confirmed. Also Cat B rookies won't need upgrading next year, so we can play Wilson and Tohill without needing an injury and clubs can demote 2 players from the senior list to the rookie list without going via the RD.

www.afl.com.au

New rule tweak provides relief for clubs on list flexibility

AFL clubs will now be allowed to move two players straight from the senior list to the rookie list, without going through a drafting process
www.afl.com.au www.afl.com.au
Wednesday, November 25
- List Lodgement 1
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I think we have 31 on senior list, including Madgen as he's had 3 years on the rookie list.

Tohill, Noble, Keane and Wilson on rookie list.

That's at least 5 new guys to the senior list and the possibility for 4 more new players, of which 2 could be on the senior list with senior list to be between 36 & 38 players
 
Bay Pie said:
I think we have 31 on senior list, including Madgen as he's had 3 years on the rookie list.

Tohill, Noble, Keane and Wilson on rookie list.

That's at least 5 new guys to the senior list and the possibility for 4 more new players, of which 2 could be on the senior list with senior list to be between 36 & 38 players
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Mihocek is in the same boat. That was his 3rd year on the rookie list (Cat. A), so he should need to be elevated. You've seemingly counted him (along with Madgen) in the 31, and that's what I make it as well.
 
Bay Pie said:
I think we have 31 on senior list, including Madgen as he's had 3 years on the rookie list.

Tohill, Noble, Keane and Wilson on rookie list.

That's at least 5 new guys to the senior list and the possibility for 4 more new players, of which 2 could be on the senior list with senior list to be between 36 & 38 players
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35Daicos said:
Mihocek is in the same boat. That was his 3rd year on the rookie list (Cat. A), so he should need to be elevated. You've seemingly counted him (along with Madgen) in the 31, and that's what I make it as well.
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I've just updated the OP and my maths is the same.

With 80k of each rookie sitting outside the cap I can see us maximising our cap purge further through a senior list size of 36 and perhaps an extra couple of rookies.

Another spanner to throw into calculation is the new ability to demote 2 players to the rookie list without the need to delist and redraft them. I cannot see any of our remaining senior players fitting the usual trend of this movement, however this rule could be used by clubs to improve their draft hand whereby they may elect to take someone in the ND rather than risk them not being available in the RD. Also with 5-7 senior spots available it's not like we're going to be short on list spots this year.
 
barrackers said:
I've just updated the OP and my maths is the same.

With 80k of each rookie sitting outside the cap I can see us maximising our cap purge further through a senior list size of 36 and perhaps an extra couple of rookies.

Another spanner to throw into calculation is the new ability to demote 2 players to the rookie list without the need to delist and redraft them. I cannot see any of our remaining senior players fitting the usual trend of this movement, however this rule could be used by clubs to improve their draft hand whereby they may elect to take someone in the ND rather than risk them not being available in the RD. Also with 5-7 senior spots available it's not like we're going to be short on list spots this year.
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I do like that rule change, at least for these "different" times. I haven't really given it a lot of thought at this stage, but maybe Max Lynch (who might have been a 'borderline' case as far as keeping/delisting) could be such a player? I thought we'd keep him, but I will say I'm quite happy for Appleby and Wills to be moved on. I think it's about time we shook up the list a bit, and I'm keen for us to have quite a few picks in the upcoming drafts.
 
35Daicos said:
I do like that rule change, at least for these "different" times. I haven't really given it a lot of thought at this stage, but maybe Max Lynch (who might have been a 'borderline' case as far as keeping/delisting) could be such a player? I thought we'd keep him, but I will say I'm quite happy for Appleby and Wills to be moved on. I think it's about time we shook up the list a bit, and I'm keen for us to have quite a few picks in the upcoming drafts.
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Lynch is a good get in terms of a potential downgrade. Role players like Appleby and Wills shouldn't be retained at their age if they're not established in the 22 and even then it should be conditional to good trade opportunity. I think in recent years we've held onto fringe role players for a season or two too long. With ageing top end talent and not many top level standouts coming through I'm also pleased that we're looking to the draft rather than topping up with mid-low level talents. Refreshing now hopefully sees us avoid a slide when Pendlebury, Sidebottom, Howe etc call time on their careers.
 
barrackers said:
Lynch is a good get in terms of a potential downgrade. Role players like Appleby and Wills shouldn't be retained at their age if they're not established in the 22 and even then it should be conditional to good trade opportunity. I think in recent years we've held onto fringe role players for a season or two too long. With ageing top end talent and not many top level standouts coming through I'm also pleased that we're looking to the draft rather than topping up with mid-low level talents. Refreshing now hopefully sees us avoid a slide when Pendlebury, Sidebottom, Howe etc call time on their careers.
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Yeah, I don't normally like "naming names" for delisting (on BigFooty, that is) but for those guys, Broomhead and even Scharenberg it was time. Luckily Dunn, Reid and Varcoe did the right thing and retired (plus Beams apparently!!), and we now have a real opportunity to get some good young talent into the club.
 
barrackers said:
Rumoured list size for 2021

www.theage.com.au

AFL close to list size cuts as end of trades looms

AFL club lists sizes will be cut to a minimum of 37 and a maximum of 44 players - including all rookies – next year.
www.theage.com.au www.theage.com.au



So, how many places does that leave us?

Senior
1. DeGoey
2. Quaynor
3. Grundy
4. Elliott
5. T. Brown
6. Langdon
7. Pendlebury
8. Adams
9. Cameron
10. Mayne
11. C. Brown
12. Greenwood
13. Sidebottom
14. Roughead
15. Thomas
16. Crisp
17. Daicos
18. Kelly
19. Murphy
20. Moore
21. Hoskin-Elliott
22. Bianco
23. Rantall
24. Sier
25. Maynard
26. Howe
27. Ruscoe
28. Lynch
29. Cox
30. Mihocek (rookie promotion TBC)
31. Madgen (rookie promotion TBC)
32.
33.
34.
35.
36.

Senior or Rookie
S37 or R5.
S38 or R6.

Rookies
1. Noble
2. Keane
3.
4.

Cat B1. Tohill
Cat B2. Wilson

Changes Senior
Stephenson -> Mihocek (promotion TBC)
Treloar -> Madgen (promotion TBC)
Scharenberg ->
Varcoe ->
Reid ->
Beams ->
Phillips -> TBC senior 37 or rookie 5
Bosenavulagi -> TBC senior 38 or rookie 6


Changes Rookie
Dunn ->
Broomhead ->
Appleby -> TBC senior 37 or rookie 5
Mihocek (promotion TBC) -> TBC senior 38 or rookie 6
Cat B. Madgen (promotion TBC) -> N/A list reduction
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Love your work barrackers!
 

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damuzzdu said:
While Beams has "announced" his retirement there's been no word (as far as I know) that he's longer our senior list. Friday might tell us a little more when the first list lodgment is done. Until we get official word from either CFC or AFL think he should remain on the list.
Re Tohill and Keane yeah seems only 1 can be classed as a Cat B. Do you have evidence that Keane is one the one who is classed as a Cat A or was this just an educated guess??

Cheers
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The rule regarding the Irish Rookies is a very clear one, and it's been around for some time. When there seemed to be some confusion on this board (with us signing the two Irish lads at the same time) I sought and received clarification on this matter from the AFL (and no doubt posted about it on here)! I can assure you that Keane, not Tohill, has been the Cat. A Rookie all along! Sadly, you somehow missed this post in the player contract status thread some time back - and the follow up one just two posts later (trust me, what I said in that post is correct!!!): List Mgmt. - Player Contract Status - Updated 18/1/19 | Page 6 | BigFooty
1606313601299.png
 
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Baird said:
Are list sizes being reduced next year? Because we've lost like 10 players, gotten none, and have 2 draft picks. I'm scared we won't have a team next year
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In 2020, the maximum you could have was 47 including 3 category B rookies. Next year the maximum is 44, but significantly you don't need to have 44 on your list, so some clubs will run with fewer due to salary cap reasons and some will run with fewer to keep spots open for later signings. They're proposing instead of a mid season draft having 3 points in time throughout the season where clubs can sign players. These signings could be quite attractive, as there may be some rippers who miss out on the draft, through not having had the opportunity to show their wares in the final year of junior footy. I also expect clubs will have some kids they were tracking, but not convinced on yet, train with them over preseason, whilst they decide whether to list them under the DFA rules.
 
35Daicos said:
The rule regarding the Irish Rookies is a very clear one, and it's been around for some time. When there seemed to be some confusion on this board (with us signing the two Irish lads at the same time) I sought and received clarification on this matter from the AFL (and no doubt posted about it on here)! I can assure you that Keane, not Tohill, has been the Cat. A Rookie all along! Sadly, you somehow missed this post in the player contract status thread some time back - and the follow up one just two posts later (trust me, what I said in that post is correct!!!): List Mgmt. - Player Contract Status - Updated 18/1/19 | Page 6 | BigFooty
View attachment 1018449
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The Lions are jam-packed for list spots which includes two Category B rookies, Deividas Uosis and James Madden, for next season, meaning they'll be able to use only four picks across both drafts. Connor Ballenden, Grant Birchall and Rhys Mathieson are being moved from the senior list to the rookie list to free up extra senior list positions.


Different rule for Irish Cat B in Brisbane seemingly.
 
RooToo said:
The Lions are jam-packed for list spots which includes two Category B rookies, Deividas Uosis and James Madden, for next season, meaning they'll be able to use only four picks across both drafts. Connor Ballenden, Grant Birchall and Rhys Mathieson are being moved from the senior list to the rookie list to free up extra senior list positions.


Different rule for Irish Cat B in Brisbane seemingly.
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www.lions.com.au

Lions welcome third Irish product to the Den

Lithuanian-born athlete Deividas Uosis will join the Lions in 2021
www.lions.com.au www.lions.com.au

All Irish recruits receive a two-year international contract, typically as a Category B rookie, with new rules allowing for two Irish players on your Category B Rookie list from 2021.
Click to expand...

Seems like there was a change of rules for 2021.
 
JasRulz63 said:
www.lions.com.au

Lions welcome third Irish product to the Den

Lithuanian-born athlete Deividas Uosis will join the Lions in 2021
www.lions.com.au www.lions.com.au



Seems like there was a change of rules for 2021.
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Thanks a lot for posting that, as that's a change that most likely wouldn't have got a lot of publicity. It does look as if they're going ahead with it, despite the recently announced changes to list size/structure. From this recent article on the AFL website it appears that the status of our two Irish rookies will remain unchanged in 2021.
1606431871836.png
 
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