Supermercado
The straw that stirs the drink
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I believe Col Deane (R4, 1925) and Frank Davis (R13, 1964) also goalled with their first kick.
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Resource List thread - Inaccuracy in official records
- Thread starter Supermercado
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- May 23, 2010
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Before I complete the 1965-1999 list of players who may be first kick, first goal contenders, a few I saw who I can already scratch off after quickly watching some matches.
Michael O'Sullivan (R1, 1982) (first kick was a free kick at half back)
David Cordner (R1, 1982) (first kick was a short pass in the second quarter)
Craig Devonport (R5, 1989) (first kick was a free kick in the centre)
Garth Taylor (R1, 1999) (first kick was a behind)
Michael O'Sullivan (R1, 1982) (first kick was a free kick at half back)
David Cordner (R1, 1982) (first kick was a short pass in the second quarter)
Craig Devonport (R5, 1989) (first kick was a free kick in the centre)
Garth Taylor (R1, 1999) (first kick was a behind)
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- May 23, 2010
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I believe I've found a missing first kick, first goal player.
Alan Johnson of Melbourne kicked three on debut and I'm positive that this is his first kick in the VFL
His second kick was a behind.
Alan Johnson of Melbourne kicked three on debut and I'm positive that this is his first kick in the VFL
His second kick was a behind.
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One more that may need some further investigation is Jack McMillan, he's already credited with a first kick, first goal but looking at his numbers from his debut he kicked 7.1 from 9 kicks. So there is a reasonable chance that he may be a member of the multiple goals with first kicks club. I'll have to check if any of the match reports mention anything regarding this.
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- May 23, 2010
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A quick check didn't get me much except that McMillan kicked the Dogs' fifth, sixth, seventh, eighth, ninth and tenth goals. I couldn't find a detailed recap.
What a bizarre "career" this chap had (at senior level)!:
Why did it end so soon?!
I guess this pretty much explains it:
AFL Tables has this player as Jack MacMillan, but that doesn't seem to be correct. It looks as if AustralianFootball.com may have changed it at some stage:
He was also MacMillan on the old AFL Historical Statistics site, and that's what The Encyclopedia has. His birth and death registrations on BDM have him as McMillan.
It's hard to see why it was ever anything else! The DOD shown here doesn't match what the death notices have:
AF.com has this^ DOD as well, so it seems likely the AFL's records may have that one wrong.
*Paul*
looks a gun
meebe he go rubbed out by some (Richmond) heavies?
meebe he go rubbed out by some (Richmond) heavies?
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- May 23, 2010
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Chris Stone is a player recorded as a first kick, first goal player.
But his stats on the day seem to indicate that he's more than just first kick, first goal. He had 2 kicks and 2 goals on debut.
But his stats on the day seem to indicate that he's more than just first kick, first goal. He had 2 kicks and 2 goals on debut.
RedmanWasHere
Rarely in kitchens at parties.
- Aug 23, 2010
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Yes, this BBC News item from twelve months ago explains a lot...not good news at the time...don't know of Stone's health status at the moment.
Sophie Wilmes: Belgian foreign minister resigns to care for sick husband
Sophie Wilmes will temporarily resign to care for her husband who has been diagnosed with brain cancer.
www.bbc.com
RedmanWasHere
Rarely in kitchens at parties.
- Aug 23, 2010
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- Exers, Gryffindor, Rich+Ess AFLW, Tassie
Yes, this BBC News item from twelve months ago explains a lot...not good news at the time...don't know of Stone's health status at the moment.
Sophie Wilmes: Belgian foreign minister resigns to care for sick husband
Sophie Wilmes will temporarily resign to care for her husband who has been diagnosed with brain cancer.
Ooooh ouch nooooo.
Brain cancer is shockingly deadly.
Killed my grandpa within 4 months of diagnosis.
- May 23, 2010
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Possible error.
Mark Perkins wore the second highest number in VFL/AFL history. He wore number 63 on debut in Round 17, 1987, before receiving number 41 for the rest of his brief career.
Or did he? Because in the footage of his debut game, he's wearing 41. And it doesn't look like he changes jumpers at any time because he's still wearing 41 at the end of the game, and near halftime he still had 41 on.
Anyone else want to dig deeper?
Mark Perkins wore the second highest number in VFL/AFL history. He wore number 63 on debut in Round 17, 1987, before receiving number 41 for the rest of his brief career.
Or did he? Because in the footage of his debut game, he's wearing 41. And it doesn't look like he changes jumpers at any time because he's still wearing 41 at the end of the game, and near halftime he still had 41 on.
Anyone else want to dig deeper?
Very interesting! It does look quite clear, so nicely spotted! The Rd. 17 Football Record had him as set to wear no. 63:
In the same edition of the Record this is what it has in Collingwood's Reserves squad list:
So Perkins is listed twice, with two different numbers! It was the same in the Rd. 16 Record.
I can only guess it's gone into the records that he wore no. 63 on debut because that is what he was meant to be wearing, but it obviously didn't happen.
Was he 63 when playing in reserves?
who was the previous no 41?
who was the previous no 41?
- May 23, 2010
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Alan Richardson seems to have been wearing 41 in his first two games, Round 7 and 10.
However according to the Round 16 record's reserves lineup, he'd switched to the 13 he wore for the rest of his career.
Interesting to note that Bruno Conti, future VAFA president, was set to line up in Round 22 with number 62, but never played a senior game.
I've had a chat with the Collingwood history/archives chaps about this, and it was in fact a known issue. The AFL folks were advised of it some time back, and a change made to their records. For some reason Mark Perkins' page wasn't updated on the Collingwood Forever site, but it has been now! Thanks again for bringing this up. It does need to be fixed on AFL Tables, though it looks as if they have it right on AustralianFootball.com.
*Paul*
1900+1901/1929+1930 Richmond Guardian issues now digitised and on Trove.
As a result, I ask - should Jack McCormack be credited with 47 goals in 1929, not 46.
Richmond Guardian breaks down his tally that year, and the only difference it they have '4' for Round 8, whereas current records say 3
In the review of Round 8 clash, Richmond Guardian says McCormack "got his usual quartette of goals" meaning 4 goals
Interestingly the Richmond Guardian match reports lists McCormack with 4 goals and Titus with 5! not 6.
(eek! I wasnt planning on taking a goal away from him)
The Argus Rd 8 match report is pretty hard to read, but it has Titus with what looks like 5, McCormack 4, Baggott 2, Watson 2, Foster, Gallagher, Oakley, Bentley Fincher, Ryan all 1 which is different to AFL Tables
However, The Age has McCormack at 3 goals and Titus with 6 goals same as AFL Tables
Sporting Globe says the same - Titus with 6, and McCormack with 3.
Any other evidence suggest McCormack kicked 4 this game.
(if he did, a goal would have to come off someone else though)
Edit:
Titus is credited with 6 goals according to the footy record the following week
Edit:
Rd 9 Footy Record has J McCormack on 28 goals up to end of Rd 8, which would correlate to if he had kicked 4 goals in Rd 8
Edit:
End of regular season footy record clearly shows J McCormack on 47 goals for the season (he didnt play finals) - which would indicate he did kick 4 goals in the Rd 8 match not 3 goals. If that's the case we would need to find out who drops a goal.
Richmond Annual Report says McCormack kicked 46 goals in 1929, which equates to AFL Tables.
Richmond Annual Report says Titus kicked 54 goals in 1929 which equates to AFL Tables.
Edit:
Oh now things get really interesting.
Richmond Guardian has a brief paragraph the following week about the goalkicking discrepancy. Saying Titus should have 5 goals for this match and McCormack 4. That's not the outcome I was hoping for at the moment. But I'll keep searching to see what the papers have as Titus finishing on for 1929 season.
And if you go to the GF footy record of 1929, they have Titus listed (out of numerical order), on 53 goals.
He goes scoreless in the GF according to AFL Tables, which would leave him on 53 goals for the seasons, not 54 as per AFL Tables
The Richmond Guardian review of the Prelim says Titus kicked 4 goals taking his tally to 53 goals for the season.
Again, he isnt credited with a goal in GF, which means he ends on 53.
So what is everyone's thoughts.
Should the Rd 8 match be Titus 6, McCormack 3..... or Titus 5, McCormack 4
As a result, I ask - should Jack McCormack be credited with 47 goals in 1929, not 46.
Richmond Guardian breaks down his tally that year, and the only difference it they have '4' for Round 8, whereas current records say 3
In the review of Round 8 clash, Richmond Guardian says McCormack "got his usual quartette of goals" meaning 4 goals
Interestingly the Richmond Guardian match reports lists McCormack with 4 goals and Titus with 5! not 6.
(eek! I wasnt planning on taking a goal away from him)
The Argus Rd 8 match report is pretty hard to read, but it has Titus with what looks like 5, McCormack 4, Baggott 2, Watson 2, Foster, Gallagher, Oakley, Bentley Fincher, Ryan all 1 which is different to AFL Tables
However, The Age has McCormack at 3 goals and Titus with 6 goals same as AFL Tables
Sporting Globe says the same - Titus with 6, and McCormack with 3.
Any other evidence suggest McCormack kicked 4 this game.
(if he did, a goal would have to come off someone else though)
Edit:
Titus is credited with 6 goals according to the footy record the following week
Edit:
Rd 9 Footy Record has J McCormack on 28 goals up to end of Rd 8, which would correlate to if he had kicked 4 goals in Rd 8
Edit:
End of regular season footy record clearly shows J McCormack on 47 goals for the season (he didnt play finals) - which would indicate he did kick 4 goals in the Rd 8 match not 3 goals. If that's the case we would need to find out who drops a goal.
Richmond Annual Report says McCormack kicked 46 goals in 1929, which equates to AFL Tables.
Richmond Annual Report says Titus kicked 54 goals in 1929 which equates to AFL Tables.
Edit:
Oh now things get really interesting.
Richmond Guardian has a brief paragraph the following week about the goalkicking discrepancy. Saying Titus should have 5 goals for this match and McCormack 4. That's not the outcome I was hoping for at the moment. But I'll keep searching to see what the papers have as Titus finishing on for 1929 season.
And if you go to the GF footy record of 1929, they have Titus listed (out of numerical order), on 53 goals.
He goes scoreless in the GF according to AFL Tables, which would leave him on 53 goals for the seasons, not 54 as per AFL Tables
The Richmond Guardian review of the Prelim says Titus kicked 4 goals taking his tally to 53 goals for the season.
Again, he isnt credited with a goal in GF, which means he ends on 53.
So what is everyone's thoughts.
Should the Rd 8 match be Titus 6, McCormack 3..... or Titus 5, McCormack 4
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- Feb 6, 2011
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Yes, Norm did play for Richmond reserves. His Uncle Billy Albress also played senior football for Richmond in the 1918/1919 seasons.
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The correct DOB for Collingwood player Ray Riddell is 26 March 1918. It was only recently changed (from 26 March 1919) on Collingwood Forever:
It's correct on Wikipedia and AustralianFootball.com
However, it needs changing on AFL Tables, and it's also wrong in The Encyclopedia.
*Paul*
His WWII records have the 1918 year of birth:
Even more significantly, his birth was registered in 1918, ruling out a 1919 YOB!:
The old AFL Historical Statistics site had 26-03-1919, and that must be where the error(s) came from.
It's correct on Wikipedia and AustralianFootball.com
However, it needs changing on AFL Tables, and it's also wrong in The Encyclopedia.
*Paul*
His WWII records have the 1918 year of birth:
Even more significantly, his birth was registered in 1918, ruling out a 1919 YOB!:
The old AFL Historical Statistics site had 26-03-1919, and that must be where the error(s) came from.
I'll keep looking around and see what comes up regarding Titus' goals
From Stephen Rodgers
St Kilda data from Russell Holmesby which we've checked out and are now going with.
Round 12 1914
Essendon v St Kilda
St Kilda team
Player amendment
The player WAWN for the Saints in the last 2 sectional matches of 1900,
rather than being
Victor Aubrey Wawn
is in fact his older brother
Royle Newton (called Roy) Wawn
date-of-birth
May 20 1880
date-of-death
February 14 1966
(the day decimal currency came to Aust. -
we've enjoyed having a browse thru that, this past week!)
Being recruited from Wesley College
doesn't change.
(No war service for either, so no amendment needed/advised to Barb Cullen.)
St Kilda data from Russell Holmesby which we've checked out and are now going with.
Round 12 1914
Essendon v St Kilda
St Kilda team
- take out Sharp
- give a game and a goal to Brady
- Jory as playing, but no goal
Player amendment
The player WAWN for the Saints in the last 2 sectional matches of 1900,
rather than being
Victor Aubrey Wawn
is in fact his older brother
Royle Newton (called Roy) Wawn
date-of-birth
May 20 1880
date-of-death
February 14 1966
(the day decimal currency came to Aust. -
we've enjoyed having a browse thru that, this past week!)
Being recruited from Wesley College
doesn't change.
(No war service for either, so no amendment needed/advised to Barb Cullen.)
List of VFL/AFL players to have scored a goal with their first kick - Wikiwand
In Australian rules football, a player can score a goal by kicking the oval ball between the two central goal posts. 316 players are recognised to have scored a...
www.wikiwand.com
The AFL Record Season Guide also has Kevin Webb on the list of players who scored a goal with their first kick in the VFL/AFL, but he played 7 games for Richmond prior to joining Melbourne, and it would have to be extremely likely he managed at least one kick for the Tigers!! A check of the Sporting Globe says he was named on the bench for his first 6 games (coming on 3 times), but played the whole game in his final match. It seems the person writing this article wasn't aware of his playing record; it's probably because of the article his name was put on that list, but it shouldn't be there:
Kevin Webb - Wikiwand
Kevin Webb may refer to:Kevin Webb, Australian rules football player in the Victorian Football League (VFL) Kevin Webb, Australian rugby league football player ...
www.wikiwand.com
Collingwood 1912 player Bill Cooke has a new identity!
This^> is who he was believed to be until recently:
This article referred to the player at Mines Rovers in 1905:
The Coleraine-born chap would have been c. 17 at the time of this marriage, so it seemed very unlikely that it was him in WA in 1905! This will be the chap who was married that year:
From Ancestry:
He was living at Abbotsford (with wife Ada) in 1913.
So he played in the first state carnival (in 1908). This bit (Moonta, S.A.) clinched it!:
The caption on his Wiki photo says "Cooke in 1912" but it will be from 1908: Wikiwand - Western Australia Australian rules football team
=========================================================================================================================================
This is the "new" Bill Cooke:
forever.collingwoodfc.com.au
This was passed on to the AFL chaps (via Collingwood FC), and the changes have been made in the records of the AFL and the club.
Oliver Gigacz
*Paul*
This^> is who he was believed to be until recently:
This article referred to the player at Mines Rovers in 1905:
The Coleraine-born chap would have been c. 17 at the time of this marriage, so it seemed very unlikely that it was him in WA in 1905! This will be the chap who was married that year:
From Ancestry:
He was living at Abbotsford (with wife Ada) in 1913.
So he played in the first state carnival (in 1908). This bit (Moonta, S.A.) clinched it!:
The caption on his Wiki photo says "Cooke in 1912" but it will be from 1908: Wikiwand - Western Australia Australian rules football team
=========================================================================================================================================
This is the "new" Bill Cooke:
Bill COOKE
Visit Collingwood Forever to research, discover and learn about the famous characters and iconic moments that make up the tapestry of the Collingwood Football Club.
forever.collingwoodfc.com.au
This was passed on to the AFL chaps (via Collingwood FC), and the changes have been made in the records of the AFL and the club.
Oliver Gigacz
*Paul*
- Jul 26, 2014
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Wikipedia updated to reflect change