Resource List thread - Inaccuracy in official records

[Harry Hook]

It's rather strange that the St Kilda Barr only played the one game, as The Argus said "and in front of them Aylwin and Barr did great work." It also said "but took in some good recruits in Barr (Footscray)". http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/9835238

The Prahran Telegraph also praised his game:- http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/144637566

You've highlighted a real difference here Daics with the Argus report.

This is the match report for the round 3 St Kilda v Fitzroy game.

The Argus report says that McNamara, Phillips, Morehouse, Beggs, Matthews, Stewart and Jennings were missing from the team that played the week before ( against Geelong) and that in came Barr, Gibson Dando, G and A Stewart, Collins and Whitelaw.

The only problem is that while AFL tables has McNamara, , Phillips, Beggs,Stewart and Jennings playing it does not have Morehouse and Matthews playing in the Geelong game ( according tp AFL tables Morehouse plays his first game in round 1 and returns in round 4 while Matthews plays in round 1 and returns in round 5) and makes no reference to Howell and another Stewart being missing.

Similarly in relation to the ins for that game, AFL tables has the ins as including Barr, Gibson, G and A Stewart, Collins and Dando but does not have Whitelaw as in because he , according to AFL tables played in the Geelong game and only missed round 1.

There is something very strange about those St Kilda records on AFL tables.

 

[35Daicos]

You've highlighted a real difference here Daics with the Argus report.

This is the match report for the round 3 St Kilda v Fitzroy game.

The Argus report says that McNamara, Phillips, Morehouse, Beggs, Matthews, Stewart and Jennings were missing from the team that played the week before ( against Geelong) and that in came Barr, Gibson Dando, G and A Stewart, Collins and Whitelaw.

The only problem is that while AFL tables has McNamara, , Phillips, Beggs,Stewart and Jennings playing it does not have Morehouse and Matthews playing in the Geelong game ( according tp AFL tables Morehouse plays his first game in round 1 and returns in round 4 while Matthews plays in round 1 and returns in round 5) and makes no reference to Howell and another Stewart being missing.

Similarly in relation to the ins for that game, AFL tables has the ins as including Barr, Gibson, G and A Stewart, Collins and Dando but does not have Whitelaw as in because he , according to AFL tables played in the Geelong game and only missed round 1.

There is something very strange about those St Kilda records on AFL tables.

I'll have a look at the other papers to see what they have to say about ins and outs!

 

[Harry Hook]

It's rather strange that the St Kilda Barr only played the one game, as The Argus said "and in front of them Aylwin and Barr did great work." It also said "but took in some good recruits in Barr (Footscray)". http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/9835238

The Prahran Telegraph also praised his game:- http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/144637566

Daicos, you may also have found something else. Go to the Prahran Telegraph report of the game but look right at the end where they talk about musical entertainment. There is a reference to Will wright, Dalton, Noonan, Jenkins and Hickey of Fitzroy and Blake, Moorehouse, Smith Dunne, Archer and Field Barrett of St Kilda being involved.

Everyone of those persons, apart Will Wright of Fitzroy played in the game and everyoneof those named for the Saints, except for "Field Barrett" played for the Saints that day, Barr also played that day.

Field Barrett was a solicitor of the time but what if anything he had to do with the St Kilda team of that time, is entirely unclear.

It's very odd to say the the least but is probably a typo.

 

[35Daicos]

Daicos, you may also have found something else. Go to the Prahran Telegraph report of the game but look right at the end where they talk about musical entertainment. There is a reference to Will wright, Dalton, Noonan, Jenkins and Hickey of Fitzroy and Blake, Moorehouse, Smith Dunne, Archer and Field Barrett of St Kilda being involved.

Everyone of those persons, apart Will Wright of Fitzroy played in the game and everyoneof those named for the Saints, except for "Field Barrett" played for the Saints that day, Barr also played that day.

Field Barrett was a solicitor of the time but what if anything he had to do with the St Kilda team of that time, is entirely unclear.

It's very odd to say the the least but is probably a typo.

I did notice that and thought it was rather odd as there was no player of that name for St Kilda. I suspect he must have had something to do with the club, perhaps he was just a supporter. He died in 1909 (aged 56 or about 65 according to a couple of reports I've seen) and he lived at St Kilda at the time of his death. They also use his full name which they don't do for any of the footballers mentioned in that part of the story.

 

[35Daicos]

You've highlighted a real difference here Daics with the Argus report.

This is the match report for the round 3 St Kilda v Fitzroy game.

The Argus report says that McNamara, Phillips, Morehouse, Beggs, Matthews, Stewart and Jennings were missing from the team that played the week before ( against Geelong) and that in came Barr, Gibson Dando, G and A Stewart, Collins and Whitelaw.

The only problem is that while AFL tables has McNamara, , Phillips, Beggs,Stewart and Jennings playing it does not have Morehouse and Matthews playing in the Geelong game ( according tp AFL tables Morehouse plays his first game in round 1 and returns in round 4 while Matthews plays in round 1 and returns in round 5) and makes no reference to Howell and another Stewart being missing.

Similarly in relation to the ins for that game, AFL tables has the ins as including Barr, Gibson, G and A Stewart, Collins and Dando but does not have Whitelaw as in because he , according to AFL tables played in the Geelong game and only missed round 1.

There is something very strange about those St Kilda records on AFL tables.

http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/191492222 (The Age - of the Fitzroy game):-
"St. Kilda, in their full strength, did not open the season very auspiciously, and with O'Meara, Phillips, Beggs, Matthews, Stewart, Jennings and Morehouse away yesterday, their chance of defeating Fitzroy was on paper about as remote as could possibly be"

O'Meara, Matthews and Morehouse are mentioned as being out yet none of them played the rd. 2 game against Geelong (which was only 3 days earlier). Perhaps both papers just named players they thought might be in the best St Kilda lineup yet weren't playing against Fitzroy. Whitelaw being mentioned by The Argus is a bit odd, hopefully it's just a mistake.

The Australasian says (of the Saints team for the Geelong game) "and who were severely handicapped by the absence of Hogan, Matthews, and Moorhouse, three of their most skilful players." http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/138667090/11313968

 

[the croucher]

I did notice that and thought it was rather odd as there was no player of that name for St Kilda. I suspect he must have had something to do with the club, perhaps he was just a supporter. He died in 1909 (aged 56 or about 65 according to a couple of reports I've seen) and he lived at St Kilda at the time of his death. They also use his full name which they don't do for any of the footballers mentioned in that part of the story.

William Field Barrett was born in Tasmania on 29 April 1852 to parents
Hugh Sunderland Barrett and Julia (nee Burgess)
https://stors.tas.gov.au/RGD33-1-4-p467j2k

His record of death in 1909 indexed on the Vic BDMs site gives his age as 57, and lists same parents.

 

[the croucher]

You've highlighted a real difference here Daics with the Argus report.

This is the match report for the round 3 St Kilda v Fitzroy game.

The Argus report says that McNamara, Phillips, Morehouse, Beggs, Matthews, Stewart and Jennings were missing from the team that played the week before ( against Geelong) and that in came Barr, Gibson Dando, G and A Stewart, Collins and Whitelaw.

The only problem is that while AFL tables has McNamara, , Phillips, Beggs,Stewart and Jennings playing it does not have Morehouse and Matthews playing in the Geelong game ( according tp AFL tables Morehouse plays his first game in round 1 and returns in round 4 while Matthews plays in round 1 and returns in round 5) and makes no reference to Howell and another Stewart being missing.

Similarly in relation to the ins for that game, AFL tables has the ins as including Barr, Gibson, G and A Stewart, Collins and Dando but does not have Whitelaw as in because he , according to AFL tables played in the Geelong game and only missed round 1.

There is something very strange about those St Kilda records on AFL tables.

Mmm..starting to look as muddled as player changes in the Fitzroy season - 1907 was it ? -
that we dealt with a year or two back.

 

[Harry Hook]

http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/191492222 (The Age - of the Fitzroy game):-
"St. Kilda, in their full strength, did not open the season very auspiciously, and with O'Meara, Phillips, Beggs, Matthews, Stewart, Jennings and Morehouse away yesterday, their chance of defeating Fitzroy was on paper about as remote as could possibly be"

O'Meara, Matthews and Morehouse are mentioned as being out yet none of them played the rd. 2 game against Geelong (which was only 3 days earlier). Perhaps both papers just named players they thought might be in the best St Kilda lineup yet weren't playing against Fitzroy. Whitelaw being mentioned by The Argus is a bit odd, hopefully it's just a mistake.

The Australasian says (of the Saints team for the Geelong game) "and who were severely handicapped by the absence of Hogan, Matthews, and Moorhouse, three of their most skilful players." http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/138667090/11313968

As for the report which suggests Hogan Matthews And Moorhouse were missing from the Geelong game (round 2) and presumably played round 1 (Melbourne) in 1898., first the obvious one, "Moorhouse" is spelt "Morehouse" in AFL tables and we now have 3 different spellings for his name.

As for the team changes:

Round 1 Melbourne game for the Saints (on AFL tables) included Gaunson, Kirwin, Matthews,Archie Richardson (that man again) and Moorhouse.

Remember Richardson may or may not have been Archie Richardson but played 3 games for the saints, according to AFL tables in round 1, 5 and 17. Gaunson played only 1 game, being round 1 in 1898, Kirwin played only 1 game being round 1 of 1898 and Morehouse played 10 VFL games only in 1898.

Round 2 Geelong for St Kilda in AFL tables did not include Gaunson, Kirwin, Matthews, Richardson and Moorhouse but did include Tom Blake, Beggs, Whitelaw,McNamara and Walter Stewart. The "skilful" Hogan does not begin playing until round 4 when the Saints play Essendon.

These 1898 St Kilda records are "rum".

 

[Harry Hook]

http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/191492222 (The Age - of the Fitzroy game):-
"St. Kilda, in their full strength, did not open the season very auspiciously, and with O'Meara, Phillips, Beggs, Matthews, Stewart, Jennings and Morehouse away yesterday, their chance of defeating Fitzroy was on paper about as remote as could possibly be"

O'Meara, Matthews and Morehouse are mentioned as being out yet none of them played the rd. 2 game against Geelong (which was only 3 days earlier). Perhaps both papers just named players they thought might be in the best St Kilda lineup yet weren't playing against Fitzroy. Whitelaw being mentioned by The Argus is a bit odd, hopefully it's just a mistake.

The Australasian says (of the Saints team for the Geelong game) "and who were severely handicapped by the absence of Hogan, Matthews, and Moorhouse, three of their most skilful players." http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/138667090/11313968

Also O'Meara, according to AFL Tables, plays 0 games in 1897, 1898, 1899 and 1900 so who is this O'Meara.

 

[WhiteHartLane23]

Mmm..starting to look as muddled as player changes in the Fitzroy season - 1907 was it ? -
that we dealt with a year or two back.

The early VFL years are very tricky - often there are sources with conflicting information - but there are absolutely errors. About 12 months ago I looked at all matches in 1898 for as many sources as I could at the time - see attached file.

My list of "errors/discrepancies" for 1898 was:
Round 4 - Geelong: Barling played rather than Sandford
Round 5 - Carlton: Kinman played rather than Moore
Round 5 - Collingwood: Williams rather than McCubbin
Round 6 - Collingwood: Tulloch rather than McCubbin
Round 8 - St Kilda: Beggs named as playing (rather than Brooks?)
Round 13 - Collingwood: Calleson did not play
Round 14 - Melbourne: Coghlan rather than Johnstone?
Round 15 - Collingwood: Is there any evidence Bird played? (I think I did find something here)
Round 16 - St Kilda: Hall named in match reports

...plus there are many discrepancies in goal scoring records - see first tab of spreadsheet

 

[Harry Hook]

The early VFL years are very tricky - often there are sources with conflicting information - but there are absolutely errors. About 12 months ago I looked at all matches in 1898 for as many sources as I could at the time - see attached file.

My list of "errors/discrepancies" for 1898 was:
Round 4 - Geelong: Barling played rather than Sandford
Round 5 - Carlton: Kinman played rather than Moore
Round 5 - Collingwood: Williams rather than McCubbin
Round 6 - Collingwood: Tulloch rather than McCubbin
Round 8 - St Kilda: Beggs named as playing (rather than Brooks?)
Round 13 - Collingwood: Calleson did not play
Round 14 - Melbourne: Coghlan rather than Johnstone?
Round 15 - Collingwood: Is there any evidence Bird played? (I think I did find something here)
Round 16 - St Kilda: Hall named in match reports

...plus there are many discrepancies in goal scoring records - see first tab of spreadsheet

Agreed entirely. As for goalscoring, don't bother. Pre numbers on a wet day on muddy games in Melbourne. Often brothers playing so you don't know who scored the goals. I've been there before.

Good luck on finding that.

I accept that the 1898 records don't often survive scrutiny but the better teams from that era were better reported and practically speaking the clubs that are still alive today, like Collingwood etc still have rabid ( I use that word in a nice way) club historians like Rhett and Supermercado who are genuinely interested in their club's history as well as non club ones but equally adept ones like Daics to check and double check. Clubs like Fitzroy and University do not so you often find defects with their records.

Even then, inaccuracies are still found in the more known clubs up to the first world war era as we have found recently.

But I digress.

St Kilda though are the poster boys for bad records. A bad team that didn't win many games in their first 10 years lead to chronic underreporting by the major papers such as the Argus etc and even if they were playing a Collingwood etc, the Collingwood etc players tend to get reported more as do the Colllingwood teams rather than the Saints players. This is not a slight on the earlier reporters necessarily as they report goals and points and if a team like St Kilda couldn't score often what was there to report. The lack of success by St Kilda often leads to the inaccuracy of intra football report naming of players.

Even the local newspapers that report on say their local Collingwood team's games v St Kilda, often the focus is on their local team, as you'd expect and the other team's lineups aren't often detailed. The exceptions may be Geelong and South Melbourne who have the excellent Record ( from memory that is its name) which actually names the teams on occasion.

As for St Kilda local papers, at least early on, the reporting is patchy, team lists don't get put up and names are often wrong or just a single name. Compare this with South Melbourne where they had the Record and South Melbourne historians have a gold mine of information.

Add to this the fact that St Kilda used a lot of players from junior clubs ( who may not have had needed a permit) and they used a lot of players who played less than 5 games , often 1, and had a lot of players who played 1-2 seasons often patchily so they weren't club favourites and were quickly forgotten. Often the player himself didn't speak of his football career after that as he moved onto real life so retrospective data is limited.

The final overlay on this is the general substandard reporting of detailed football data at the time with names being spelt in 3 -4 ways, nicknames, shortened names like Bert being used, second names being used instead of christian names as well as men actually using aliases such as our man Casey may have done) in addition to team lineups not being named etc.

The only "definite" data are the permits which only cover intra VFL, VFA and interstate transfers.

Then early historians had their go and battled manfully going through old records and papers, without the use of Trove and produced , albeit with the best efforts, inadequate records which they then tried to ascribe names to through the Victorian BDM and sometimes the other states looking at birthdates and I suspect on occasion punting a name was correct ( we all want an answer often if that answer is lost in time).

Add to that those inadequate historical records are then relied upon as gospel by later historians, who valiantly try to base their findings on incorrect assumptions and then add to that the duplication of data on the internet relying on these same incorrect assumptions.

What I have described is the perfect storm for football researchers to actually find information and, in the case of St Kilda, I suspect a lot of it has not been looked at that closely as has been put in the too hard basket.

Perhaps that is why enjoy looking at the St Kilda records.

 

[35Daicos]

Also O'Meara, according to AFL Tables, plays 0 games in 1897, 1898, 1899 and 1900 so who is this O'Meara.

Perhaps the paper just made a mistake with this name, but who knows?! O'Grady played 9 games for the Saints in 1897 but none from then on (he died in 1899 aged 26) so perhaps they were thinking of him as a player who if available would be in the side (early in 1898). Interestingly, 'The Encyclopedia' has James O'Meara playing 3 games for South Melbourne (1897 and 1901) yet he's not in the records today. Presumably it was found he hadn't played and he was removed at some stage. The article below does suggest the player had been at South earlier.

http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/70021650 (10 May 1899)

"It is reported that Jimmy O'Meara who played in former years for both Richmond and South Melbourne, is to play with the Frankston Club this season."

There are certainly plenty of issues with the St Kilda records from the early days, that's for sure!!

 

[35Daicos]

Agreed entirely. As for goalscoring, don't bother. Pre numbers on a wet day on muddy games in Melbourne. Often brothers playing so you don't know who scored the goals. I've been there before.

Good luck on finding that.

I accept that the 1898 records don't often survive scrutiny but the better teams from that era were better reported and practically speaking the clubs that are still alive today, like Collingwood etc still have rabid ( I use that word in a nice way) club historians like Rhett and Supermercado who are genuinely interested in their club's history as well as non club ones but equally adept ones like Daics to check and double check. Clubs like Fitzroy and University do not so you often find defects with their records.

Even then, inaccuracies are still found in the more known clubs up to the first world war era as we have found recently.

But I digress.

St Kilda though are the poster boys for bad records. A bad team that didn't win many games in their first 10 years lead to chronic underreporting by the major papers such as the Argus etc and even if they were playing a Collingwood etc, the Collingwood etc players tend to get reported more as do the Colllingwood teams rather than the Saints players. This is not a slight on the earlier reporters necessarily as they report goals and points and if a team like St Kilda couldn't score often what was there to report. The lack of success by St Kilda often leads to the inaccuracy of intra football report naming of players.

Even the local newspapers that report on say their local Collingwood team's games v St Kilda, often the focus is on their local team, as you'd expect and the other team's lineups aren't often detailed. The exceptions may be Geelong and South Melbourne who have the excellent Record ( from memory that is its name) which actually names the teams on occasion.

As for St Kilda local papers, at least early on, the reporting is patchy, team lists don't get put up and names are often wrong or just a single name. Compare this with South Melbourne where they had the Record and South Melbourne historians have a gold mine of information.

Add to this the fact that St Kilda used a lot of players from junior clubs ( who may not have had needed a permit) and they used a lot of players who played less than 5 games , often 1, and had a lot of players who played 1-2 seasons often patchily so they weren't club favourites and were quickly forgotten. Often the player himself didn't speak of his football career after that as he moved onto real life so retrospective data is limited.

The final overlay on this is the general substandard reporting of detailed football data at the time with names being spelt in 3 -4 ways, nicknames, shortened names like Bert being used, second names being used instead of christian names as well as men actually using aliases such as our man Casey may have done) in addition to team lineups not being named etc.

The only "definite" data are the permits which only cover intra VFL, VFA and interstate transfers.

Then early historians had their go and battled manfully going through old records and papers, without the use of Trove and produced , albeit with the best efforts, inadequate records which they then tried to ascribe names to through the Victorian BDM and sometimes the other states looking at birthdates and I suspect on occasion punting a name was correct ( we all want an answer often if that answer is lost in time).

Add to that those inadequate historical records are then relied upon as gospel by later historians, who valiantly try to base their findings on incorrect assumptions and then add to that the duplication of data on the internet relying on these same incorrect assumptions.

What I have described is the perfect storm for football researchers to actually find information and, in the case of St Kilda, I suspect a lot of it has not been looked at that closely as has been put in the too hard basket.

Perhaps that is why enjoy looking at the St Kilda records.

Great summary, I'd say!

 

[Harry Hook]

This is actually quite helpful. About 1900, the only Barr I've found is the Williamstown Barr.

The Williamstown Barr playing for Essendon precludes him being the St Kilda Barr, simply because the StKilda Barr's game and the Essendon Barr's games actually coincide.

The traditional DoB for Barr of 1880 actually anticipates a junior at the beginning of his career.

There is another possibility, the St Kilda Barr was a veteran at the end of his career ( hence why there is little reference to him playing after). He also could have been a player chosen at the last minute due to a shortage of numbers (a not unusual occurrence at the time).

If that latter possibility is correct, he may not be Henry J Barr 1880 but have been born 6-8 years earlier.

It may also explain the lack of a date of death.

Now to find the evidence.

I took another run at finding the existence of Barr last night and now believe that there is a very good chance that the birth date and probably the name is wrong.

There was a Barr from the junior club at Footscray but he played between 1890 to about 1892-1893.

eg

http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-page7160121

and this

http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-page7160117

Between 1894 to 1897, I can't find references to him.

But after, the only references are to Barr being Pat Barr.

 

[Harry Hook]

Easy clean up here.

Mick O'Loughlin is listed as having played football for the Saints in 1901 and essendon in 1899.

This report of the Bendigo Independent of 9 May 1905 suggests he was Michael Valentine O'Laughlin.

http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article227779530

 

[Harry Hook]

Rhett Bartlett

Date of death information for Rupert Speary ex St Kilda player.

Died about 28 October 1905

http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article144607965

Prahran Telegraph

Should get biographical information on him as well.

 

[WhiteHartLane23]

Rhett Bartlett

Date of death information for Rupert Speary ex St Kilda player.

Died about 28 October 1905
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article144607965

Prahran Telegraph
Should get biographical information on him as well.

According to Mark Penning's Origins of Australian Football vol 3. Rupert Speary played 20 games for St Kilda in the VFA during 1889-90 - came from Wesley College

 

[Harry Hook]

Also one pre AFL

St Kilda's first captain J Bake, brother of Tom Blake, dies in 1943.

Age 4 June 1943

http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article206853364

At the very least Tom Blake's Eiki page could be changed.

This fact also does not seem to be on the St Kilda Wiki page and the Wiki page of Tom Blake suggests it is not known by them.

Might be a good one folks.

 

[Harry Hook]

Might have another St Kilda issue with DOB and DOD.

A Bill Pickering is noted as having played 6 games for the Saints in 1902. The poor man plays in 6 losses.

How many times have I said that.

All well and good except this obituary of the Morwell Advertiser of 10 August 1939 notes one Stan Pickering who dies a couple of days before world war 2.

http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article66097809

In the report it is stated that Stan was once a playing member of St Kilda Football Club.

Wiki has him living between 1879 - 1962.

Only 1 Pickering is listed as having played for the Saints bill.

Stan could have played pre VFL but even if played in 1896 at age 20, he is getting on a bit.

Can't find much about Pickering in 1902 at St Kilda besides the fact a Pickering is reported as playing.

So is it an overexaggeration by stan ofhis achievements or did he play.

 

[GreyCrow]

All well and good except this obituary of the Morwell Advertiser of 10 August 1939 notes one Stan Pickering who dies a couple of days before world war 2.

http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article66097809

In the report it is stated that Stan was once a playing member of St Kilda Football Club.

Wiki has him living between 1879 - 1962.

I will address the life span 1st

The 1879 Birth is William Stanley Pickering to a Charles and Mary Ann Stout in Cast-lemaine

The 1939 Death of William Stanley Dewitt Pickering parents Charles and Mary Stout aged 60 POB Castlemaine POD Traralgon

Which fits the story given above. Make of that what you will

Edit: added. There is no 1962 death listed. In 1903 William Stanley Dewitt and Catherine Hamilton (Westgarth) have a child born/registered in Nar Nar Goon

 

[Harry Hook]

Another St kilda player.

George May is recorded as having played 10 games in 1898 and 1899 ( those horrid years for researchers ) and no more.

He's also recorded as living between 1875 to 1950.

Then I see this report from the Sporting Globe of 18 December 1937

http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-page20729942

which refers tomeeting then living old St Kilda footballer Eddie May. You would think the bloke from the Sportiing globe would know who he is talking to.

Now only 1 player named May is ever recorded as playing for the Saints and that's George May.

 

[GreyCrow]

A Permit for a W Pickering http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article10860996

Bill is William which is his 1st name. Solved

 

[GreyCrow]

Another St kilda player.

George May is recorded as having played 10 games in 1898 and 1899 ( those horrid years for researchers ) and no more.

He's also recorded as living between 1875 to 1950.

Then I see this report from the Sporting Globe of 18 December 1937

http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-page20729942

which refers tomeeting then living old St Kilda footballer Eddie May. You would think the bloke from the Sportiing globe would know who he is talking to.

Now only 1 player named May is ever recorded as playing for the Saints and that's George May.

Those dates seem to refer to a George Arthur Massey May who lived and died between those dates

 

[35Daicos]

A Permit for a W Pickering http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article10860996

Bill is William which is his 1st name. Solved

Quite a gap between when he last played for St Kilda (1902) and when he left the club (1910)!

 

[Harry Hook]

Quite a gap between when he last played for St Kilda (1902) and when he left the club (1910)!

Which leads me to question whether there are uncredited games for Pickering?