Resource List thread - Inaccuracy in official records

[Connor7395]

This is how it looked on the old AFL Historical Statistics site, so the problem seems to have come from there initially:
View attachment 893833

I found and rectified four more duplicates for 1985. Guessing those problems arose from there too.
I'll check out the rest of eighties.

 

[35Daicos]

I found and rectified four more duplicates for 1985. Guessing those problems arose from there too.
I'll check out the rest of eighties.

Yes, in every case they are shown as duplicates on that (AFL) site.

 

[Connor7395]

Yes, in every case they are shown as duplicates on that (AFL) site.

Well I just went ahead and compiled the entire decade's duplicates. I'll get stuck into it later or even tomorrow.
I'm not expecting much if any from the 1990's. The 1970's and back are bound to have plenty.

 

[RedmanWasHere]

Could the duplications be mid-season switches?

 

[Connor7395]

Could the duplications be mid-season switches?

I've had that thought and some may be a possibility. For now I'm going by what's in the Footy Record as well as seeing if two duplicates also played in the same game.

 

[35Daicos]

Could the duplications be mid-season switches?

Just with the two Saints, they do play quite a few games that year, so are bound to be in the same side at some stage: https://afltables.com/afl/stats/1985.html#15


Indeed here they are together in Rd. 22: https://afltables.com/afl/stats/games/1985/071519850831.html

 

[Connor7395]

Could the duplications be mid-season switches?

I've found one that fits the bill.
Peter Kiel played one game for Melbourne, in 1987, in Round 5. The Round 2 Footy Record lists him wearing 29 as a reserve. Kiel never played again after this, and starting in Round 16, Dean Chiron had started playing for Melbourne and taken Kiel's number 29. The Round 19 Footy Record confirms that Chiron wore 29 at this time.

 

[Connor7395]

Could the duplications be mid-season switches?

A second one. Tim Harrington and Peter Adams are credited with number 23 for the Magpies in 1987, but Harrington's Collingwood Forever page lists 48, which AFL Tables does not have, as well as 23. I can confirm Harrington did wear 48 against the Bombers in Round 8 (see 4:20). The next week, Harrington and Adams played together for the only time, and Adams retired. I think Adams wore 23, and Harrington took it after Adams retired.

 

[Todman]

For the AFL Tables guy, a couple of number fixes for these duplicates I found for 1985 the whole decade:

Hawthorn (1980):
Number 19 for both Alan Goad and Mark Scott
Change: Goad had the number from 1973 to 1984. Mark Scott wore 40 before moving to St Kilda.

Melbourne (1980):
Number 1 for both Greg Wells and Garry Baker
Change: Wells was cleared to Carlton mid season.

St. Kilda (1980):

Number 29 for both Russell Greene and Tony King
Number 28 for both Simon Meehan and Neil MacLeod
Number 19 for Mark Scott, Con Gorozidis, and Malcolm Scott
Change: Greene was traded to Hawthorn mid year for Mark Scott and Tony King.

Greene took 29 off Warren Lee who had seriously injured his knee in 1978 and was still on the Hawk's list.

Duplicates may not necessarily mean a mistake in some cases. Will check some out later.

 

[Connor7395]

Hawthorn (1980):
Number 19 for both Alan Goad and Mark Scott
Change: Goad had the number from 1973 to 1984. Mark Scott wore 40 before moving to St Kilda.

Melbourne (1980):
Number 1 for both Greg Wells and Garry Baker
Change: Wells was cleared to Carlton mid season.

St. Kilda (1980):

Number 29 for both Russell Greene and Tony King
Number 28 for both Simon Meehan and Neil MacLeod
Number 19 for Mark Scott, Con Gorozidis, and Malcolm Scott
Change: Greene was traded to Hawthorn mid year for Mark Scott and Tony King.

Greene took 29 off Warren Lee who had seriously injured his knee in 1978 and was still on the Hawk's list.

Duplicates may not necessarily mean a mistake in some cases. Will check some out later.

The Wells and Baker one is a bug apparently. The AFL Tables 1980 team list page however lists Wells as wearing number 1 for Melbourne, but his player page lists him wearing 11 in each game. Wells took number 1 at Carlton.
It seems that a few duplicates can be explained by mid-season trades, because the change in number may not be recorded correctly on the AFL Tables team lists.

 

[rbartlett]

Rd 21 Richmond v West Coast was played at 11am (local) time, not 2.10pm.
I have viewed the Ch7 original broadcast where the commentator references this at the beginning.
AFLTables advised.
Ill add to spreadsheet

 

[ThePope]

Rd 21 Richmond v West Coast was played at 11am (local) time, not 2.10pm.
I have viewed the Ch7 original broadcast where the commentator references this at the beginning.
AFLTables advised.
Ill add to spreadsheet

1992, was to allow for the Olympic Opening Ceremony to be shown afterwards.

 

[GreyCrow]

1992, was to allow for the Olympic Opening Ceremony to be shown afterwards.
View attachment 896461

Its an old old scratchy memory but I am sure some 80s games from across the West started between 11 and 2 local time ie 1.30-3.30 here

 

[Peter Jones]

Folks I'm going to need some help on this.

One of the 3 birthdates missing from the Wikipedia project is for Bill Hennington.

Bill played for Leopold before playing 6 games in 1914 for South Melbourne before disappearing from sight before apparently dying on 11 July 1964.

First some clarification. Leopold was not the place near Geelong but was a feeder club in the South Melbourne district as this article about Frank Harley in 1923 explains.

http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article184810470

So we are talking about a local lad.

That he was from Leopold is not in dispute as this 1914 article makes clear.

http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article7250033

No permit was necessary.

He, full name William Hennington, was transferred back to Leopold in 1915 as this Argus report suggests:

http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article1515445

where he continued to play until 1919 as this report suggests.
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article165176732

He was an officer of Leopold even in 1921 as this annual report suggests

http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article162540188

This also suggests Hennington was relatively young when he first played for Leopold and went to South Melbourne.

This I believe stitches Hennington's football career together from pre South Melbourne days to when he was a responsible member of Leopold (local Melbourne) club and it appears never went elsewhere. I think the permit clearly establishes a name and his existence before and after South Melbourne.

So who was he.

I should start by saying that is the date of death of William Hennington of 11 July 1964 correct.

I do not believe it is.

I believe that William Hennington is one William Hennington who lived between 1892 to 1965. I do not have access to Ancestry but the free searches on My Heritage indicate that William Hennington was born in 1892, at XXXXX, to George Hannington/Hennington and Isabella Sophia Hennington (born Remington).
George was born in 1853, in Prahran, Victoria, Australia.
Isabella was born in 1861, in Amherst, Victorian, Australia.
William had 10 siblings: Lilly Jane Barrett (born Hannington/Hennington), Norman Victor Hennington and 8 other siblings.
William passed away in 1965, at age 73 at XXXXX.

On my heritage they don't give you the name of the birth place and place of death but if his parents were Victorian and from Melbourne then he is likely to Victorian and living in Melbourne.

If I'm right here, He was 22 when he played for South Melbourne and 29 when he was at Leopold. that fits within our age bracket.

There's even a picture of him on My Heritage.

Moreover a free ancestry indicates that a William Hennington was on the electoral roll in Melbourne Ports from 1913 to 1965.

I don't have access to Ancestry but I can't verify if the Wikipedia date of death is correct just as I cannot verify the particulars of Hennington's birth or death.

What can be established is that we are talking about a man called William Hennington and his football background.

According to the Wki project only 3 dates of birth are remaining. If I am correct, we have the date of birth and the date of death may be wrong.

Don't assume anything I've posted is correct and if the geneologists and other coul individually fact check this that would be apprreciated.

In 2012 Col Hutchinson nominated this bloke as a "man of mystery". Let's see if we can solve it.

 

[GreyCrow]

Hi Peter - thank you for sharing the phote

Can you give us some information please - is Bill a relative?

If so do you have a Date of Birth and Death please?

 

[Peter Jones]

Hi
I am Bill sister Lily Grandson
Bill Hennington did not have any children .
Attached a photo of Bill and his father George .( He died in 1924)
In to today;s paper it mentions Dungannon in Northern Ireland where the Essenedon Player Connor MacKenna may got Corona Virus .
Bills grandfather Henry Hannington came from the same town Dungannon in Tyrone .
Henry was a Pioneer and miner of Ballarat .
Peter Jones

 

[Peter Jones]

Bill Hennington

Birth:	1892 - Stawell, Victoria, Australia
Death:	1965 - Kew, Victoria, Australia

My Grandmother Lily was born 1890 and died in 1970

Peter

 

[Peter Jones]

Bill Hennington

Birth:	1892 - Stawell, Victoria, Australia
Death:	1965 - Kew, Victoria, Australia

My Grandmother Lily was born 1890 and died in 1970

Peter

Bill Brother was a Horse Trainer

 

[ThePope]

Bill Hennington

Birth:	1892 - Stawell, Victoria, Australia
Death:	1965 - Kew, Victoria, Australia

My Grandmother Lily was born 1890 and died in 1970

Peter

Hi Peter, thanks for that information.

You should email Col.Hutchinson@afl.com.au with your information. Hennington is one of the last VFL players who they don't have a date of birth for. He has featured at least twice in the AFL Record's "can you help" column.

There is no birth registered on the Victorian BDM site that matches a Bill/William Hennington/Hannington being born in Stawell in 1892 to a father George, or any combination of some of those. Maybe they just didn't register him. Lily doesn't seem to be registered either.
Do you know his mother's name?
There is an unnamed birth registration from 1881 to George and Phoebe in Ballarat.

1881​

13783​

F

Hennington

George

Pateman Phoebe

Ballarat

 

[rbartlett]

Ive emailed Stephen Rodgers at AFL too with these posts

 

[rbartlett]

Peter Jones The AFL historians have asked me to ask you for the exact DOB (day/month) of Bill Hennington.
Any idea at all

 

[rbartlett]

Long story short- 35Daicos has discovered that the currently identified Roy Taylor (RFC 1916-1918) born 6 August 1891, dying 17 March 1969 is incorrect. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_Taylor_(footballer)

Based on his discovery in Richmond Guardian of 1919 that lists Roy's parents , and his soon-to-be wife https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/255876528 that correct attribution would now be Roy Taylor, born 1896 in Norwood, South Australia, dying Coburg 1971, age 75.

Here's a photo from THAT Roy's wedding day, and corresponding photo from an earlier 1917 RFC team.
View attachment 867718View attachment 867719

I've advisedStephen Rodgers and awaiting his reply. But I'm comfortable to change in our Richmond archives.
I'll place it on the spreadsheet as well. And at some point it will need to be changed on the Wiki, AustralianFootball, AFLTables.

Stephen Rodgers has advised that Roy Taylor dod is now 11 June 1971, Coburg
His dob is 11 April 1896 in Norwood SA.
Wikipedia. Aust Foot AFLTables etc will beed to be updated as this is a new identity for a previously mentioned Richmond player Roy Taylor.

As well Stephen has advised that Jim Morton - North Melb 1927 1 game DOD is March 30 1999.
So Wiki, Aust Foot AFL Tables etc will need to be updated

Will add to spreadsheet

 

[rbartlett]

On TV last night, Brian Taylor recalled how he watched a young Dermott Brereton in a "Vic Metro" match at Punt Road, whilst Brian was playing at Richmond.
BT told me today he thought it might be Mid 1981.

Now I've looked and I see Dermott was part of the Teal Cup side in 1981 June, but the three games they played weren't at Punt Road.
June 5 1981 Vic v Tas at Glenferrie (Brereton 7gls)
June 7 1981 Vic v NT at Princes Park
June 8 1981 Vic v SA at Waverley (Brereton 2gls)
So I'm wondering what scenario he may mean.
I've asked him if it was perhaps an earlier match to decide which players could make the Teal Cup side or he has misremembered the ground

 

[killer]

AUSTRALIAN FOOTBALL ACT to field team in Teal Cup - The Canberra Times (ACT : 1926 - 1995) - 3 Jun 1981

MELBOURNE: Top junior footballers from every part of Australia will compete in the Australian under-17 Teal Cup championships in Melbourne, beginning on Friday. ...

trove.nla.gov.au

PR was in use in '81

 

[Gibbsy]

AUSTRALIAN FOOTBALL ACT to field team in Teal Cup - The Canberra Times (ACT : 1926 - 1995) - 3 Jun 1981

MELBOURNE: Top junior footballers from every part of Australia will compete in the Australian under-17 Teal Cup championships in Melbourne, beginning on Friday. ...

trove.nla.gov.au

PR was in use in '81

Not for any Vic games though, I crosschecked with Age reports and Rhett has the venues/dates correct.