Resource List thread - Inaccuracy in official records

[35Daicos]

A small but still significant enough change has just been made in the official records (AFL & Collingwood FC) to this 1897-98 Collingwood player's last name: George Calleson - Wikipedia
He's now George Callesen. Curiously enough, Wikipedia shows that here, though elsewhere on the page (and in the URL) he's Calleson:


Collingwood Forever now has him as Callesen: George Calleson | Collingwood Forever (collingwoodfc.com.au)



It is seen as Calleson most of the time in newspapers, but in Vic. BDM it's almost always Callesen for members of that family, as well as in his death notice:


Oliver Gigacz
*Paul*

Edit: Thanks for that Wiki updater

 

[Oliver G]

So I guess the rule is that since Stynes came out wearing 11 first, nothing should be changed? I remember in 2008 when Harry Taylor had to change twice against the Dees and ended up running out the match wearing the number 85, but the records consider him to have worn number 7.

If timing is available at AF we will always go with whichever jumper he wore the longest and always note the change in the match details sections.

 

[megadeth86]

This is a general post alerting readers to what I believe are errors in listings of official club captains, in the AFL Season Guide principally, but occasionally on club websites (some show correct information already), and certainly on "public-generated" content sites, e.g. Wikipedia. Am working out best way to post evidence about these...suspect I will lodge a separate post for each relevant club, whether there is one correction needed or a handful.

List where the official captain at start of season is incorrect,
or where replacement during season is missing or wrongly identified.

Carlton 1898 - J Aitken original captain, not E Walton
Carlton 1899 - E Walton not sole captain, was replaced by H McShane who was replaced by W Stuckey
Carlton 1902 - W McNamara should be listed as replacement for J Sullivan, not J McShane
Carlton 1922 - E Jamieson original captain, not H Clover

Collingwood 1916 - J McHale should be listed as replacement for D Minogue
Collingwood 1917 - J McHale original captain, not P Wilson
Collingwood 1923 - P Rowe original captain, not H Curtis

Essendon 1919 - A Belcher original captain, not P Ogden

Geelong 1919 - A Eason should be listed as replacement for J Kearney

Hawthorn 1950 - remove P O’Donohue, K Curran sole captain for year
Hawthorn 1951 - K Curran sole captain, not P O’Donohue

Melbourne - 1901 R Wardill original captain, not W McClelland
Melbourne - 1911 H Odgers should be listed as replacement for V Coutie

North Melb - 1927 C Tyson should be listed as replacement for S Barker

Richmond - 1914 C Ricketts original captain, replaced by B Herbert who was replaced by W Thomas

South Melb - 1926 C Pannam original captain, not P Scanlan

St Kilda - 1899 T McNamara original captain, not W Shaw
St Kilda - 1908 D McNamara should be listed as replacement for J Wells
St Kilda - 1935 C Watson original captain, not C Hindson
St Kilda - 1940 A Clarke original captain, not S Lloyd

I recall the newspaper article which announced the first Eagles squad in late-1986 gave an age for Phil Narkle which didn't correlate with his birth-date in the AFL Season Guide. I guess the Season Guide is correct?

 

[35Daicos]

This DOD is incorrect on Wikipedia: Les Huntington - Wikipedia


It should be 29 October 1968:


It's correct here: Australian Football - Les Huntington - Player Bio

If one of our wiki updaters could fix that it would be much appreciated!

 

[RedmanWasHere]

I wanna add a source (the obit) to the edit but I don't know how to.

 

[ThePope]

I wanna add a source (the obit) to the edit but I don't know how to.

Updated. Links to primary sources, like death notices, are generally not preferred on Wikipedia. Always best for AustralianFootball or other sites to update first, then those secondary sources can be used.

 

[the croucher]

Peter Jones The AFL historians have asked me to ask you for the exact DOB (day/month) of Bill Hennington.
Any idea at all

Trying to solve the Bill Hennington DOB mystery this morning:
Doesn't appear as if we've had any further news on the post from last year,
note the family contact had earlier referred to Stawell as place of birth.

Vic BDMs have a birth record for a William Henry Chiverton registered in Stawell district in 1891 (#37349),
his mother's given name is shown as "Char" [Charlotte ?] but interestingly her maiden name is Remington
(same as shown on Hennington's death record); and the birth record shows given name of father as George
(same as Hennington's death record).

Just offering it up as a potential clue, although a puzzle at moment where the surname Chiverton comes from.

 

[RedmanWasHere]

Would Charlotte have married twice?

 

[Bandit55]

Trying to solve the Bill Hennington DOB mystery this morning:
Doesn't appear as if we've had any further news on the post from last year,
note the family contact had earlier referred to Stawell as place of birth.

Vic BDMs have a birth record for a William Henry Chiverton registered in Stawell district in 1891 (#37349),
his mother's given name is shown as "Char" [Charlotte ?] but interestingly her maiden name is Remington
(same as shown on Hennington's death record); and the birth record shows given name of father as George
(same as Hennington's death record).

Just offering it up as a potential clue, although a puzzle at moment where the surname Chiverton comes from.

William Henry Chiverton died in WWI:

https://vwma.org.au/explore/people/68565

 

[35Daicos]

William Henry Chiverton died in WWI:

https://vwma.org.au/explore/people/68565

 

[the croucher]

View attachment 1164721
View attachment 1164719

Ah, I see. Well done all, good detective work !

 

[35Daicos]

Ah, I see. Well done all, good detective work !

It does look pretty certain that the mothers of William Hennington (Isabella Sophia nee Remington) and William Henry Chiverton (Charlotte nee Remington) were sisters:




It doesn't really help us, with William Henry dying in 1915. He can't have been the footballer, as Hennington from Leopold was back (trying out) at South Melbourne in 1917, and still involved with Leopold in 1920.


^ It would be helpful if this poster could come back with something, but I can't help but think he may have his wires crossed about this!

 

[ThePope]

Not sure if it helps, but Isabella Remington married Richard Higgins in 1879 (age 18 from the above link)

1879​

876​

F

Remington

Isabella

Higgins

Richard Alfred

Talbot

Isabella Higgins married George Hennington in 1885

1885​

506​

F

Higgins

Isabella

Hennington

George

Isabella and Richard had a daughter, Edith Mary, in 1882, in Stawell.

1882​

12468​

Higgins

Edith Mary

Richard Alfred

Remington Isabell

Staw

There is an Ancestry tree for Isabella, that lists 2 William Walter Henningtons amongst her offspring. One is 1884-1886, the other 1892-1886 (their error, not mine).
No references are given, nor any more detailed date of birth, but given they have the wrong death date for William #2, it's not likely to be back calc from the death notice

https://www.ancestrylibrary.com.au/family-tree/person/tree/34589239/person/18667470423/facts

 

[35Daicos]

There seems to be an issue with the DOD that's in the game's records for this 1898 Carlton player: Australian Football - George Warde - Player Bio


George Warde (footballer) - Wikipedia



The Wikipedia page includes this link to his death notice: 06 Oct 1934 - Family Notices - Trove (nla.gov.au)

There we can see a problem - his father was George (not Robert)!
This is on Ancestry:


I don't think that will be the Carlton footballer.

This is the birth reg. for the chap in the official records:


Perhaps this could be him?:

George H Ward (unknown-1923) - Find A Grave Memorial

That age would fit nicely enough. I can't see a death notice anywhere, unfortunately.

There's lots of siblings for the Hotham-born chap:

It would also be interesting to know whether he's now in the AFL records as Ward or Warde. This was in the Football Record back in 2013:

===================================================================================
There was another George Henry Ward who played one game for Essendon in 1901: George Ward (footballer, born 1877) - Wikipedia

 

[the croucher]

There seems to be an issue with the DOD that's in the game's records for this 1898 Carlton player: Australian Football - George Warde - Player Bio
View attachment 1166082

George Warde (footballer) - Wikipedia
View attachment 1166084
View attachment 1166085
View attachment 1166086
The Wikipedia page includes this link to his death notice: 06 Oct 1934 - Family Notices - Trove (nla.gov.au)
View attachment 1166088
There we can see a problem - his father was George (not Robert)!
This is on Ancestry:
View attachment 1166092
View attachment 1166105
I don't think that will be the Carlton footballer.

This is the birth reg. for the chap in the official records:
View attachment 1166103

Perhaps this could be him?:
View attachment 1166104
George H Ward (unknown-1923) - Find A Grave Memorial
View attachment 1166116
That age would fit nicely enough. I can't see a death notice anywhere, unfortunately.

There's lots of siblings for the Hotham-born chap:
View attachment 1166129
It would also be interesting to know whether he's now in the AFL records as Ward or Warde. This was in the Football Record back in 2013:
View attachment 1166100
===================================================================================
There was another George Henry Ward who played one game for Essendon in 1901: George Ward (footballer, born 1877) - WikipediaView attachment 1166084

Using the date selection fields on NSW BDMs site, I think official DOD may be 23rd rather than 24th.

I agree, there doesn't appear to be a death notice for him in any newspaper on Trove.

 

[35Daicos]

Using the date selection fields on NSW BDMs site, I think official DOD may be 23rd rather than 24th.

I agree, there doesn't appear to be a death notice for him in any newspaper on Trove.

There doesn't appear to be a birth reg. around 1876 on NSW BDM for anyone matching his name, so I'm hopeful he could be the chap from Victoria. He also must have been a Catholic and his family seems to have been as well, so it has to be a reasonable chance it's him.

This is his brother's death reg:


I presume the RC stands for Roman Catholic.

 

[the croucher]

A family connections matter....

Eddie Shea's page at australianfootball.com

Australian Football - Eddie Shea - Player Bio

australianfootball.com

has family link button showing Keith Shea as his brother.

Eddie [Edmond] was Keith's cousin, not brother, so I think the "Family Links" button should change to reflect that.

See attached screenshot captured off Vic BDMs site.

 

[the croucher]

In contrast to the Shea's, two other players don't have family link button for a brother where they should.

Norm Barker (Uni, Fitzroy)

Australian Football - Norm Barker - Player Bio

australianfootball.com

and

Gilbert Barker (Fitz, Uni, Subiaco)

Australian Football - Gilbert Barker - Player Bio

australianfootball.com

should have buttons on each of their pages indicating they were brothers.

see refs from Vic BDMs

 

[WhiteHartLane23]

Percy Fletcher played for Geelong in the 1901-06 and has date of death as 16 July 1946 on australianfootball.com / wikipedia

However, Find a Grave and death notice in The Argus show date of death was 15 July 1946.


Summary: Change date of death for Percy Nicholson Fletcher from 16 July 1946 to 15 July 1946

 

[killer]

ya mean 15 July '46?

 

[WhiteHartLane23]

ya mean 15 July '46?

thx - stupid error - edited post above

 

[Oliver G]

A family connections matter....

Eddie Shea's page at australianfootball.com

Australian Football - Eddie Shea - Player Bio

australianfootball.com

has family link button showing Keith Shea as his brother.

Eddie [Edmond] was Keith's cousin, not brother, so I think the "Family Links" button should change to reflect that.

See attached screenshot captured off Vic BDMs site.

In contrast to the Shea's, two other players don't have family link button for a brother where they should.

Norm Barker (Uni, Fitzroy)

Australian Football - Norm Barker - Player Bio

australianfootball.com

and

Gilbert Barker (Fitz, Uni, Subiaco)

Australian Football - Gilbert Barker - Player Bio

australianfootball.com

should have buttons on each of their pages indicating they were brothers.

see refs from Vic BDMs

Percy Fletcher played for Geelong in the 1901-06 and has date of death as 16 July 1946 on australianfootball.com / wikipedia

However, Find a Grave and death notice in The Argus show date of death was 15 July 1946.
View attachment 1171439

Summary: Change date of death for Percy Nicholson Fletcher from 16 July 1946 to 15 July 1946

Thanks guys, all updated.

 

[WhiteHartLane23]

Jack Patterson played for South Melbourne (1931), North Melbourne (1932-36) and then Williamstown (1937-40).

Currently recorded as having date of birth 28 May 1911 and date of death 27 October 1994.

These dates match John Patrick Patterson, son of Patrick James Patterson and Bridget Kenny, born in Cobram (see service record) and died in Wodonga according to Ancestry trees

Unfortunately in all 1930s electoral rolls John Patrick Patterson is living in Cobram and searching on Trove it appears he was a footballer – but playing for Strathmerton in the Murray League with his brother James Joseph Patterson (b 1913)
The player has been mis-identified and current DOB/DOD in football sources are incorrect.

The VFL/VFA footballer Jack Patterson

• Joined South Melb from SM District in 1931 http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article164965476
• Was a first year player for SM District in 1930 http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article164969950
• Moved to North Melb in 1932 http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article242797422
• Missed 1933 with a broken leg http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article243310086
• Moved to Williamstown in 1936 http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article11031867
• Premiership winner in 1939 http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article180248885

This article shows in 1946 he was married to a Mrs M. Patterson.

Also this article shows marriage was before 1943.

My current best guess is John Henry Patterson – son of Robert Baron Patterson and Ada Woolley, born 17 Dec 1912 in Port Melbourne, died 21 March 1996, married Lila May Wilson in 1938.

…but he seems to live in South Melbourne / Armadale / Malvern - it would have been a fair commute to North/Williamstown for 8 years so not convinced this is right

 

[35Daicos]

Jack Patterson played for South Melbourne (1931), North Melbourne (1932-36) and then Williamstown (1937-40).

Currently recorded as having date of birth 28 May 1911 and date of death 27 October 1994.

These dates match John Patrick Patterson, son of Patrick James Patterson and Bridget Kenny, born in Cobram (see service record) and died in Wodonga according to Ancestry trees

Unfortunately in all 1930s electoral rolls John Patrick Patterson is living in Cobram and searching on Trove it appears he was a footballer – but playing for Strathmerton in the Murray League with his brother James Joseph Patterson (b 1913)
The player has been mis-identified and current DOB/DOD in football sources are incorrect.

The VFL/VFA footballer Jack Patterson

• Joined South Melb from SM District in 1931 http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article164965476
• Was a first year player for SM District in 1930 http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article164969950
• Moved to North Melb in 1932 http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article242797422
• Missed 1933 with a broken leg http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article243310086
• Moved to Williamstown in 1936 http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article11031867
• Premiership winner in 1939 http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article180248885

This article shows in 1946 he was married to a Mrs M. Patterson.

Also this article shows marriage was before 1943.

My current best guess is John Henry Patterson – son of Robert Baron Patterson and Ada Woolley, born 17 Dec 1912 in Port Melbourne, died 21 March 1996, married Lila May Wilson in 1938.

…but he seems to live in South Melbourne / Armadale / Malvern - it would have been a fair commute to North/Williamstown for 8 years so not convinced this is right

It's obviously not the chap who the official records claim it to be, but it doesn't look like John Henry is our man either:

That should make it a lot easier to find him, but no luck as yet! The last name is shown quite often as Paterson so I wonder if it was that rather than Patterson?

This was him at North Melbourne in 1932 (from Boyles):

 

[the croucher]

It's obviously not the chap who the official records claim it to be, but it doesn't look like John Henry is our man either:
View attachment 1174165
That should make it a lot easier to find him, but no luck as yet! The last name is shown quite often as Paterson so I wonder if it was that rather than Patterson?

This was him at North Melbourne in 1932 (from Boyles):
View attachment 1174169

I'm also wondering if the one 't' spelling of surname might be him. Many of the press reports of his time at Williamstown do indeed spell his name as J Paterson.

Good clue with that marriage reference in the 6 June 1936 paper. A John Henry Paterson on a number of Ancestry trees is listed as being married on 30 May 1936 to Winifred Annie Smith in Canterbury district, Victoria. The 1937 electoral roll then shows that couple living in Abercrombie Street, Camberwell North, with JH occupation as plumber.

The DOB & DOD for that JH Paterson on the trees is listed as 30 March 1908 & 17 March 1970.

I've sent a message to the tree owner with most sources shown asking what she knows of the couple's sporting life. Given the research undertaken for them, am hoping it might be their daughter, but profile suggests it is some months since she logged on, so attempt might not work out.

The death notice in The Age uses one 't' as well...