Resource List thread - Inaccuracy in official records
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RedmanWasHere
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Ollie.
Got some more for you that I'm not sure have been touched.
Brian Shinners is listed as Georgia Gee's grandfather and great-uncle.
He's only her grandfather but her 2x great-uncle was Hugh Torney from Essendon.
Danielle Hardiman and Jason Saddington are first cousins.
Jack Hannath and Jonathan Giles are 1st cousins too.
Got some more for you that I'm not sure have been touched.
Brian Shinners is listed as Georgia Gee's grandfather and great-uncle.
He's only her grandfather but her 2x great-uncle was Hugh Torney from Essendon.
Danielle Hardiman and Jason Saddington are first cousins.
Jack Hannath and Jonathan Giles are 1st cousins too.
Thanks, done.
RedmanWasHere
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Ken Seymour (Brunswick, Fitzroy, South Melb) was born in 1930 but is listed as living in football sources
In addition to being a footballer he was a swimming coach who ran an indoor pool in Essendon and then later managed the State Swimming Centre.
It appears he died on 27 March 1993
Probate record in The Age from July 1993 shows him as living at 2 Kingston Rd, Ascot Vale
This address corresponds with electoral roll records for him from 1977
Fawkner Memorial Park has a record of his cremation that gives exact date of death
Summary: Add date of death for Ken Seymour as 27 March 1993
In addition to being a footballer he was a swimming coach who ran an indoor pool in Essendon and then later managed the State Swimming Centre.
It appears he died on 27 March 1993
Probate record in The Age from July 1993 shows him as living at 2 Kingston Rd, Ascot Vale
This address corresponds with electoral roll records for him from 1977
Fawkner Memorial Park has a record of his cremation that gives exact date of death
Summary: Add date of death for Ken Seymour as 27 March 1993
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Ivan Sharp (Fitzroy) has DOB 3 August 1909 in football records
His actual DOB was 31 August 1909
Birth notice in The Age on 4 Sep 1909
...plus his WW2 record and his grave both have 31 August 1909
Summary: Update date of birth for Ivan Sharp from 3 August 1909 to 31 August 1909
His actual DOB was 31 August 1909
Birth notice in The Age on 4 Sep 1909
...plus his WW2 record and his grave both have 31 August 1909
Summary: Update date of birth for Ivan Sharp from 3 August 1909 to 31 August 1909
That is a bit of a strange one, since there was no DOB shown for him on the old Historical Statistics website:
The most recent edition of The Encyclopedia doesn't have one either. So they must have only come up with a DOB for him in fairly recent times, but ended up with the wrong one, despite what his Army records have to say.
RedmanWasHere
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Oliver Gigacz.
Little correction for you.
You've got Alice Burke as Nick Bloom's great-nephew instead of great-niece.
Little correction for you.
You've got Alice Burke as Nick Bloom's great-nephew instead of great-niece.
Some time ago a change was made in the official records of the AFL (and Collingwood FC) regarding the Magpies' goalkickers for the 1940 Rd. 17 game against Essendon. This shows how it should be:
On AFL Tables and AustralianFootball.com Dawson, Fothergill and Pimm are shown as having booted 2 goals, with none to Hocking.
*Paul*
Oliver Gigacz
Edit: I've changed the career goal tallies on the Wiki pages for the three players affected by this (Dawson, Hocking and Pimm).
On AFL Tables and AustralianFootball.com Dawson, Fothergill and Pimm are shown as having booted 2 goals, with none to Hocking.
*Paul*
Oliver Gigacz
Edit: I've changed the career goal tallies on the Wiki pages for the three players affected by this (Dawson, Hocking and Pimm).
Last edited:
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Ross King (two games for Fitzroy in 1964) does not have a date of death in football records
He was born Michael William King in Bunbury, WA but played under the name Ross Michael King - WAFL Footy Facts have him as playing for East Perth in 1968.
According to Ancestry trees he died on 28 June 2016 in WA - Ryerson Index shows a funeral notice in the West Australian on 1 July 2016
Summary: Add death date for Ross King as 28 June 2016
He was born Michael William King in Bunbury, WA but played under the name Ross Michael King - WAFL Footy Facts have him as playing for East Perth in 1968.
According to Ancestry trees he died on 28 June 2016 in WA - Ryerson Index shows a funeral notice in the West Australian on 1 July 2016
Summary: Add death date for Ross King as 28 June 2016
The DOB of Collingwood player Harry Paynter has been changed from 17 September 1929 to 17 September 1927 on the Forever site, after confirmation of the correct date via phone contact:
The AFL chaps have been notified of this change, and no doubt will amend their records accordingly.
On his Wiki page it was altered quite a few years ago (seemingly by a relative):
This means Harry is now recognised as Collingwood's oldest living former player (at 95). Though he didn't have a big VFL career his son John Paynter (Glenelg/Sturt) had a massive one in the SANFL. Harry also played a fair bit with Northcote in the VFA.
Oliver Gigacz
*Paul*
I should have added that Harry is actually Henry Charles Paynter.
The AFL chaps have been notified of this change, and no doubt will amend their records accordingly.
On his Wiki page it was altered quite a few years ago (seemingly by a relative):
This means Harry is now recognised as Collingwood's oldest living former player (at 95). Though he didn't have a big VFL career his son John Paynter (Glenelg/Sturt) had a massive one in the SANFL. Harry also played a fair bit with Northcote in the VFA.
Oliver Gigacz
*Paul*
I should have added that Harry is actually Henry Charles Paynter.
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Nearly all online sources have the wrong DOB and DOD for Collingwood player Danny Flaherty. It has been changed in the records of the AFL and Collingwood FC:
It's incorrect on Wikipedia, AFL Tables and AustralianFootball.com
Oliver Gigacz
*Paul*
Danny's proper name was Hugh James Flaherty.
It's incorrect on Wikipedia, AFL Tables and AustralianFootball.com
Oliver Gigacz
*Paul*
Danny's proper name was Hugh James Flaherty.
I'm delighted to say we now have a DOB for "recently discovered" Collingwood player George Marsh!:
Wikipedia still has the Collingwood 1905 player as George Herbert Marsh (1882-1965), but he was in fact Mungo George Marsh. That change was announced a few months back, and a DOB has now come to hand.
Oliver Gigacz
*Paul*
Wikipedia still has the Collingwood 1905 player as George Herbert Marsh (1882-1965), but he was in fact Mungo George Marsh. That change was announced a few months back, and a DOB has now come to hand.
Oliver Gigacz
*Paul*
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Great work 35Daicos - have updated Danny Flaherty and George Marsh on wikipedia/wikidata to reflect changes
Beauty! Thanks a lot for doing that.
There's a few discrepancies between what Collingwood/AFL have and what AustralianFootball.com/AFL Tables have for some Pies players:
This is the correct DOB for John Allan:
This post from a couple of years back confirmed the AFL had made that change. AFL Tables has that one right.
This is what it should have for George Blundell:
AFL Tables has the wrong DOB, while AustralianFootball.com has an incorrect DOD. This post confirmed the AFL had made a change to his DOB. A link to his obituary can be found on his Wiki page, and it shows that he died on the above date.
Both sites have an incorrect DOB for Bill Welsh. It should be:
This 2019 story confirmed that he turned 95 that year: Oldest Magpie turns 95
This is what the AFL and Collingwood now have for Max Urquhart:
Most sources have 1 July 1942. It appears a mistake was made some time back with it being recorded as 1/7/1942 when it should have been 7/1/1942!
Oliver Gigacz
*Paul*
This is the correct DOB for John Allan:
This post from a couple of years back confirmed the AFL had made that change. AFL Tables has that one right.
This is what it should have for George Blundell:
AFL Tables has the wrong DOB, while AustralianFootball.com has an incorrect DOD. This post confirmed the AFL had made a change to his DOB. A link to his obituary can be found on his Wiki page, and it shows that he died on the above date.
Both sites have an incorrect DOB for Bill Welsh. It should be:
This 2019 story confirmed that he turned 95 that year: Oldest Magpie turns 95
This is what the AFL and Collingwood now have for Max Urquhart:
Most sources have 1 July 1942. It appears a mistake was made some time back with it being recorded as 1/7/1942 when it should have been 7/1/1942!
Oliver Gigacz
*Paul*
A post was made some time back regarding Collingwood 1903 player John/Jack Dunn, where it was pointed out that the player was not John Patrick Dunn (1881-1947), recruited from Northcote, but an entirely different person to the one shown in the AFL's records. A DOB of 9 June 1877 and DOD of 30 June 1963 were provided. We now have an amended DOB of 14 June 1878:
The AFL have accepted that this is now the correct person and made the necessary changes to their records.
forever.collingwoodfc.com.au
Oliver Gigacz
*Paul*
I have made changes to his Wikipedia page. I haven't touched this bit as I'm not sure what I'm meant to do with it!:
Oliver, could you please also add in the DOD for Collingwood player Chris Curran (who died 8 October 2018): Australian Football - Chris Curran - Player Bio
The AFL have accepted that this is now the correct person and made the necessary changes to their records.
Jack Dunn
Oliver Gigacz
*Paul*
I have made changes to his Wikipedia page. I haven't touched this bit as I'm not sure what I'm meant to do with it!:
Oliver, could you please also add in the DOD for Collingwood player Chris Curran (who died 8 October 2018): Australian Football - Chris Curran - Player Bio
Former star player John Greening has been in touch with Collingwood FC to advise that his correct DOB is 25 December 1950, not 20 December 1950, as most sources have had it. It was already correct on his Wiki page, however:
It has now been changed on Collingwood Forever:
It's incorrect on AustralianFootball.com, AFL Tables and The Encyclopedia.
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Some sources also have the wrong DOB for former Collingwood player Alex Moore. Wikipedia has it right, as does AustralianFootball.com. AFL Tables and The Encyclopedia have 21 December 1918, but 21 December 1917 is correct.
It has recently been changed on his Collingwood Forever page:
His Army records have:
The reg. no. for his birth registration suggests that was done quite early in 1918, which would fit nicely for a late-December 1917 DOB, and not one from late-December 1918.
Oliver Gigacz
*Paul*
It has now been changed on Collingwood Forever:
It's incorrect on AustralianFootball.com, AFL Tables and The Encyclopedia.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Some sources also have the wrong DOB for former Collingwood player Alex Moore. Wikipedia has it right, as does AustralianFootball.com. AFL Tables and The Encyclopedia have 21 December 1918, but 21 December 1917 is correct.
It has recently been changed on his Collingwood Forever page:
His Army records have:
The reg. no. for his birth registration suggests that was done quite early in 1918, which would fit nicely for a late-December 1917 DOB, and not one from late-December 1918.
Oliver Gigacz
*Paul*
RedmanWasHere
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Bill Cahill (Launceston, Essendon & Tasmanian cricket team) has DOB 5 Dec 1911 in football records and 3 Dec 1911 in cricket records
Neither of these dates are correct.
He was actually born on 5 Dec 1910 as per birth notice in the Hobart Mercury and his WW2 service record.
Summary: Update date of birth for Bill Cahill from 3/5 December 1911 to 5 December 1910
Neither of these dates are correct.
He was actually born on 5 Dec 1910 as per birth notice in the Hobart Mercury and his WW2 service record.
Summary: Update date of birth for Bill Cahill from 3/5 December 1911 to 5 December 1910
Little update for this one -
Peter Haby at the Hawks Museum referred it to Stephen Rogers who has happily confirmed they are updating their records 'to the new man'.
Much thanks from Peter to all involved.
WhiteHartLane23
35Daicos
the croucher
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Doug Heywood (Melb), later commentator with ABC and 3AW, has DOB 10 Dec 1924 in football records.
However newspaper birth notice shows a date of 12 Dec 1924
Seems almost certain that 12 Dec 1924 is the correct date given the notice above but the 10 Dec 1924 date appears in Scotch College records and his WWII service record so it is possible that he might have believed it was 10 Dec 1924 himself.
However newspaper birth notice shows a date of 12 Dec 1924
Seems almost certain that 12 Dec 1924 is the correct date given the notice above but the 10 Dec 1924 date appears in Scotch College records and his WWII service record so it is possible that he might have believed it was 10 Dec 1924 himself.
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Yes - its possible that there was a misprint - but generally the records closest to the event are the most reliable!
Birth certificate is the only way to get the true "official" date
My view is perhaps skewed by obtaining my grandmothers birth certificate (she was also born around that time) and discovering that both her name and date of birth were different to what she had believed for her entire life (she was in her 70s at the time!) - sometimes immediate family forget the exact details...
Yes - and I've heard of examples where the family simply decides the real date is inconvenient (e.g. it's already someone else's birthday) and just shifts it!
Probably need to sight the birth cert to be sure I guess.
Probably need to sight the birth cert to be sure I guess.
