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Resource List thread - Inaccuracy in official records
- Thread starter Supermercado
- Start date
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Summary: Jack Huggard (Richmond) wore No. 19 in 1926 season, not No. 31
Footy Records of Rd 1 and 2 show him with No. 19 (what he also wore the season before), so no evidence yet to suggest he wore anything else that season.
Footy Records of Rd 1 and 2 show him with No. 19 (what he also wore the season before), so no evidence yet to suggest he wore anything else that season.
There may be an incorrect DOB for Rex Geard (Richmond '52-'53, Sandy Bay). I'm not exactly sure what the current official DOB is, but I assume it is currently 10 January 1927 as per Wikipedia, AFLT and Tigerland Archive. DOD of 22 July 1982 seems fine since it matches the DOD mentioned in the will-related documents for one Rex Albert Geard.
This article describes him as a "22-year-old Sandy Bay ruckman" - published in Oct 1951 (i.e. likely born in 1929, but perhaps late 1928).
This grave listing for Rex Albert Geard (with matching DOD) also places his year of birth in 1929.
I emphasise "may" because there could of course be something I'm missing, or perhaps it was once accepted as 1929 but other evidence has since suggested that is in fact 1927 instead (that I am not aware of). Thought this might pique someone's interest.
This article describes him as a "22-year-old Sandy Bay ruckman" - published in Oct 1951 (i.e. likely born in 1929, but perhaps late 1928).
This grave listing for Rex Albert Geard (with matching DOD) also places his year of birth in 1929.
I emphasise "may" because there could of course be something I'm missing, or perhaps it was once accepted as 1929 but other evidence has since suggested that is in fact 1927 instead (that I am not aware of). Thought this might pique someone's interest.
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1929 does look right for his year of birth:
This is from one Ancestry tree:
Many trees have that DOB, quite a few have just 1929, while the odd one has 10 January 1927. He was a cricketer, and this should be him:
By this stage it seems he should have been 23:
The AFL Historical Statistics site had this way back in c. 2011, so it probably hasn't changed (in the game's records) from that at any time:
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Cemetery record puts his DOB at 1929 as per his age.
So all signs point to that and not 1927.
I'm comfortable to suggest it be changed to Jan 11 1929 if everyone else is atm , based on all that and Ancestry exact date.
Couple of things to note today
Brisbane v Giants today (June 14 2025), the first quarter went 42min 51 seconds.
Listening on radio - 3AW said that the Essendon v Geelong game at the MCG will now start at 4.18pm not 4.15pm - and it seemed like they were saying it was because that Bris v Geel match ran over.
So I checked Ess v Geelong and the bounce did indeed begin at 4.18pm, not scheduled 4.15pm
Oliver G *Paul*
Brisbane v Giants today (June 14 2025), the first quarter went 42min 51 seconds.
Listening on radio - 3AW said that the Essendon v Geelong game at the MCG will now start at 4.18pm not 4.15pm - and it seemed like they were saying it was because that Bris v Geel match ran over.
So I checked Ess v Geelong and the bounce did indeed begin at 4.18pm, not scheduled 4.15pm
Oliver G *Paul*
On that same line, all games that have CH7 as the host broadcaster and are scheduled to begin at 7:30pm (AEST), actually begin at 7:32pm. I'm pretty sure it's just Thursday nights this year, but it has been occurring going back to 2021 for any games scheduled at 7:30pm (AEST).
Goal Correction - 1983 QF - Haw v Fitz
Not sure what's happened here but I've just noticed AFLTables, AustralianFootball.com and Footywire etc all have Michael Byrne kicking two goals in this game and Michael McCarthy none.
Full game is on youtube. McCarthy kicks Hawthorn's 10th goal, per below video, 58min mark. Byrne kicks 1 goal for the game, Hawthorn's 15th.
Summary -
1983 Qual Final - Haw v Fitz - Michael McCarthy (Haw) plus 1 goal. Michael Byrne (Haw) minus 1 goal.
Not sure what's happened here but I've just noticed AFLTables, AustralianFootball.com and Footywire etc all have Michael Byrne kicking two goals in this game and Michael McCarthy none.
Full game is on youtube. McCarthy kicks Hawthorn's 10th goal, per below video, 58min mark. Byrne kicks 1 goal for the game, Hawthorn's 15th.
Summary -
1983 Qual Final - Haw v Fitz - Michael McCarthy (Haw) plus 1 goal. Michael Byrne (Haw) minus 1 goal.
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The following week's Football Record had this (2 for Byrne):
The Monday edition of The Age had the same (2 for Byrne):
Yet they contradicted that here (with Byrne and McCarthy 1 goal each):
Most likely it's been in the game's records ever since with Byrne 2, McCarthy 0 goals.
Apologies if this is not in the right thread - I know there was a discussion on '1st Kick 1st Goal' players, but I can't locate it now and it doesn't seem to have its own thread.
Is Shane McGrath (Hawthorn 1984) on the list?
He only played 1 game, 1984 R21 v Collingwood, and kicked a goal. The Age match report says this -
Is Shane McGrath (Hawthorn 1984) on the list?
He only played 1 game, 1984 R21 v Collingwood, and kicked a goal. The Age match report says this -
The Age - Google News Archive Search
news.google.com
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It looks like it has been discussed in this thread a reasonable bit. Though I'm surprised to see it doesn't have it's own thread!
Shane McGrath is not listed here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_VFL/AFL_players_to_have_scored_a_goal_with_their_first_kick
And he's not in the book!:
Incorrect Score - 1967 Round 7, Fitz v Haw
All online sites and the Footy Record the following week have Hawthorn's 3QTR-time score as 13.11 89. It should be 12.11 83.
The Age had it correct on the Monday
And the Sporting Globe also detailed the 6 goalkickers in the 3rd qtr, and the 4 goalkickers in the 4th qtr for Hawthorn.
Summary -
1967 Rnd 7 Fitz v Haw - Change Hawthorn's 3-quarter time score from 13.11 to 12.11. All other scores remain the same.
All online sites and the Footy Record the following week have Hawthorn's 3QTR-time score as 13.11 89. It should be 12.11 83.
The Age had it correct on the Monday
And the Sporting Globe also detailed the 6 goalkickers in the 3rd qtr, and the 4 goalkickers in the 4th qtr for Hawthorn.
Summary -
1967 Rnd 7 Fitz v Haw - Change Hawthorn's 3-quarter time score from 13.11 to 12.11. All other scores remain the same.
I was looking into this chap, as he's one of the Fitzroy players they don't have a photo of:
There's no doubt the Fitzroy one-gamer was from Pembroke (he was captain of that team):
He was back with Pembroke before long:
The player at Pembroke does seem to be P. Tulloch, not J. Tulloch:
It seems he played cricket for that club as well:
I think this will be the footballer/cricketer:
This chap played pennant/district cricket for Fitzroy at about the same time "Jim" Tulloch played football for them:
He had a brother named Peter - I think it's highly likely Peter Tulloch will be the 1898 Fitzroy footballer.
The family of James Percival Tulloch was living at Morwell by that stage, and I think it's not that likely he was in Melbourne playing cricket and football. James was married at Morwell in 1902, and a son was born there in 1903.
There's no doubt the Fitzroy one-gamer was from Pembroke (he was captain of that team):
He was back with Pembroke before long:
The player at Pembroke does seem to be P. Tulloch, not J. Tulloch:
It seems he played cricket for that club as well:
I think this will be the footballer/cricketer:
This chap played pennant/district cricket for Fitzroy at about the same time "Jim" Tulloch played football for them:
He had a brother named Peter - I think it's highly likely Peter Tulloch will be the 1898 Fitzroy footballer.
The family of James Percival Tulloch was living at Morwell by that stage, and I think it's not that likely he was in Melbourne playing cricket and football. James was married at Morwell in 1902, and a son was born there in 1903.
^
This chap (brother of the Fitzroy cricketer) was born at Emerald Hill, which seems to be about where Pembroke FC was based.
P. Tulloch played for Collingwood Juniors in 1899. This might well be the same player at Caulfield a few years later:
He was living at Malvern in 1903, and that's quite close to Caulfield. I think it's probably the same person/player all the way through.
Any assistance on this one would be most welcome!
================================================================
I see there were some posts on this topic many years ago, but nothing seems to have been resolved!:
This chap (brother of the Fitzroy cricketer) was born at Emerald Hill, which seems to be about where Pembroke FC was based.
P. Tulloch played for Collingwood Juniors in 1899. This might well be the same player at Caulfield a few years later:
He was living at Malvern in 1903, and that's quite close to Caulfield. I think it's probably the same person/player all the way through.
Any assistance on this one would be most welcome!
================================================================
I see there were some posts on this topic many years ago, but nothing seems to have been resolved!:
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Pembroke FC is now South Melbourne District FC.
Thanks for that. There was a Tulloch playing for South Melbourne CC 2nd XI in 1898, and that is likely to have been Peter (his brother played cricket for Fitzroy by that stage):
His family had a strong South Melbourne connection:
His daughter (Adelaide Elizabeth) even married a South Melbourne footballer!:
This is rather odd, as I suspect this would refer to the same Peter Tulloch, yet there's no evidence that he played football for South Melbourne (at least not at senior VFA or VFL level)!:
Perhaps he played for South's seconds team at some stage?
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Rd 19 1947 Richmond v Sth, spotted by research Peter Foot
A letter to the Richmond News report that goalkickers are actually
Taylor 5, Fraser 4, Wilson 3, Mooney 2, Oppy 1 and Currie 1
which is different to what The Age AFLT and AF all have!
A quick look at say, the Herald , below, shows they have the same goalkickers as The Age but the paragraph above it clearly shows that Mooney kicked 2 goals, despite not being in their goalkickers.,
(The Herald's list is also different to what AFL T and AF have)
Summary: For Rd 19 1947 Richmond v South Melbourne
Don Fraser loses 1 goal
Arthur Mooney gains 1 goal
A letter to the Richmond News report that goalkickers are actually
Taylor 5, Fraser 4, Wilson 3, Mooney 2, Oppy 1 and Currie 1
which is different to what The Age AFLT and AF all have!
A quick look at say, the Herald , below, shows they have the same goalkickers as The Age but the paragraph above it clearly shows that Mooney kicked 2 goals, despite not being in their goalkickers.,
(The Herald's list is also different to what AFL T and AF have)
Summary: For Rd 19 1947 Richmond v South Melbourne
Don Fraser loses 1 goal
Arthur Mooney gains 1 goal
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As first raised by Peter Foot... looks like Jack Dyer didn't coach Richmond for Rd 14 1950 v Fitzroy, he was interstate with the Vic side. Alby Pannam coached the game. Attachment from Richmond News.
Any thoughts/ agreement/ disagreement?
Summary: That we change Dyer to 221 games coached, and Pannam to 55.
Any thoughts/ agreement/ disagreement?
Summary: That we change Dyer to 221 games coached, and Pannam to 55.
Goalkicker error 1976 Rnd 13 NM v Haw
All online sites have Leon Rice kicking one goal. That goal should be credited to Barry Rowings.
It looks like a transcribing error as every paper, and the Footy Record the next week, has the goal kicked by Rowlings.
Might just be online sites and the AFL has it right?
The Age:
Footy Record:
Stats:
Sporting Globe - it was the last goal of the game
Summary -
1976 Rnd 13 NM v Haw - Leon Rice (Haw) minus 1 goal, Barry Rowlings (Haw) plus 1 goal.
All online sites have Leon Rice kicking one goal. That goal should be credited to Barry Rowings.
It looks like a transcribing error as every paper, and the Footy Record the next week, has the goal kicked by Rowlings.
Might just be online sites and the AFL has it right?
The Age:
Footy Record:
Stats:
Sporting Globe - it was the last goal of the game
Summary -
1976 Rnd 13 NM v Haw - Leon Rice (Haw) minus 1 goal, Barry Rowlings (Haw) plus 1 goal.
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A potential DOB inaccuracy for 1938 Essendon captain Len M. Webster.
Wikipedia, AFL Tables and AustralianFootball all have his date of birth as 26 Dec 1906.
However, the gravestone of one Leonard Miles Webster has his DOB as 29 Dec 1906 (matching DOD):
www.findagrave.com
Other sources (provided by 35Daicos kindly) show the same:
I've personally changed it to the 29th on my own site for the time being, but it is worth discussing whether the official record needs an update. Potentially it was just a numkeypad error for the first person to enter it.
Wikipedia, AFL Tables and AustralianFootball all have his date of birth as 26 Dec 1906.
However, the gravestone of one Leonard Miles Webster has his DOB as 29 Dec 1906 (matching DOD):
Leonard Miles Webster (1906-1985) - Find a Grave...
Leonard was cremated at Springvale Crematorium on 10th October 1985. The remains were then collected. They are not registered as being interred at Berwick.
www.findagrave.com
Other sources (provided by 35Daicos kindly) show the same:
I've personally changed it to the 29th on my own site for the time being, but it is worth discussing whether the official record needs an update. Potentially it was just a numkeypad error for the first person to enter it.
Potential goal kickers error, 1979 Rounds 8 and 18.
I say potential but I’m pretty certain – it’s just that the players involved scare me a bit!
Maybe there was a reason it was altered to the current records? Anyway I’d like to get some other eyes over it before making an official submission/summary.
Scenario A (currently held records/online websites etc)
Rnd 8 Haw v Melb – Michael Moncrieff kicks 3 goals, Leigh Matthews kicks 2 goals
Rnd 18 Haw v Fitz – Michael Moncrieff kicks 4 goals, Rodney Eade kicks 1 goal
Scenario B (what I propose is correct)
Rnd 8 Haw v Melb – Michael Moncrieff kicks 2 goals, Leigh Matthews kicks 3 goals
Rnd 18 Haw v Fitz – Michael Moncrieff kicks 5 goals, Rodney Eade kicks 0 goals
End result would be Matthews gains a goal to go to 916. Eade loses one and drops to 45. Moncrieff stays on 629.
See posts below…
I say potential but I’m pretty certain – it’s just that the players involved scare me a bit!
Maybe there was a reason it was altered to the current records? Anyway I’d like to get some other eyes over it before making an official submission/summary.
Scenario A (currently held records/online websites etc)
Rnd 8 Haw v Melb – Michael Moncrieff kicks 3 goals, Leigh Matthews kicks 2 goals
Rnd 18 Haw v Fitz – Michael Moncrieff kicks 4 goals, Rodney Eade kicks 1 goal
Scenario B (what I propose is correct)
Rnd 8 Haw v Melb – Michael Moncrieff kicks 2 goals, Leigh Matthews kicks 3 goals
Rnd 18 Haw v Fitz – Michael Moncrieff kicks 5 goals, Rodney Eade kicks 0 goals
End result would be Matthews gains a goal to go to 916. Eade loses one and drops to 45. Moncrieff stays on 629.
See posts below…
1979 Rnd 8 Haw v Melb
To show Matthews kicked 3 and Moncrieff 2:
The Age:
The Sporting Globe:
The Herald evening edition had them up to 3qtr time with 2 each:
And the Sporting Globe reported the last quarter goalkickers as:
The Sunday Observer:
The Sunday Press:
And The Footy Record for Rnd 9:
--
Summary -
1979 Rnd 8 Haw v Melb - Leigh Matthews plus 1 goal, Michael Moncrieff minus 1 goal.
To show Matthews kicked 3 and Moncrieff 2:
The Age:
The Sporting Globe:
The Herald evening edition had them up to 3qtr time with 2 each:
And the Sporting Globe reported the last quarter goalkickers as:
The Sunday Observer:
The Sunday Press:
And The Footy Record for Rnd 9:
--
Summary -
1979 Rnd 8 Haw v Melb - Leigh Matthews plus 1 goal, Michael Moncrieff minus 1 goal.
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1979 Rnd 18 Haw v Fitz
To show Moncrieff kicked 5 and Eade 0:
The Age:
The Sporting Globe:
The Herald, pretty emphatic:
The Sunday Observer:
Sunday Press:
And the Footy Record for Rnd 19:
Moncrieff’s goalkicking tally in the Record each week supports the notion he kicked 2 in Rnd 8 and 5 in Rnd 18.
Absolutely none of the resources mention Eade kicking a goal in Rnd 18.
--
Summary -
1979 Rnd 18 Haw v Fitz - Michael Moncrieff plus 1 goal, Rodney Eade minus 1 goal.
To show Moncrieff kicked 5 and Eade 0:
The Age:
The Sporting Globe:
The Herald, pretty emphatic:
The Sunday Observer:
Sunday Press:
And the Footy Record for Rnd 19:
Moncrieff’s goalkicking tally in the Record each week supports the notion he kicked 2 in Rnd 8 and 5 in Rnd 18.
Absolutely none of the resources mention Eade kicking a goal in Rnd 18.
--
Summary -
1979 Rnd 18 Haw v Fitz - Michael Moncrieff plus 1 goal, Rodney Eade minus 1 goal.
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