LIVE Federal Election Coverage 2016

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The LNP's only hope if they do get a majority (most likely with Katter's help) is to go Nationals. Ship out ScoMo and Malcolm and give Barnaby the top job.

Cormann and Frydenberg can remain in Treasury, elevated a bit, and chuck Chester or Birmingham in to help them out. Birmingham seems a bit of a lefty, although I don't know what the links with the Aus Hotels Association mean. I know they're big-time lobbyists and if they're like the licensing and liquor body in NSW then they should be kept away from real power, but a National in charge of Education should give Gonski a proper look in.

Meanwhile, the Liberals can finally give Bishop their top job. They need her there to distract everyone from the lack of women in their party (it looks like lip service to women if she never gets the full chance, and they can make Marise Payne deputy leader to double-down on that), and given Bishop has been a perpetual deputy it will put all the Liberals in the right frame of mind to spend the next 5-10 years working out what they want their party to actually be.

Who knows how the Nationals will perform, but it will be a distinctly different voice so that people can think of it as a circuit-breaker, and it will at least give more than lip service to the Nationals' role in the Coalition, while undoubtedly curbing their natural instincts to be protectionist (presumably).

I'm only quarter joking.
 
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Maggie5

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The LNP's only hope if they do get a majority (most likely with Katter's help) is to go Nationals. Ship out ScoMo and Malcolm and give Barnaby the top job.

Cormann and Frydenberg can remain in Treasury, elevated a bit, and chuck Chester or Birmingham in to help them out. Birmingham seems a bit of a lefty, although I don't know what the links with the Aus Hotels Association mean. I know they're big-time lobbyists and if they're like the licensing and liquor body in NSW then they should be kept away from real power, but a National in charge of Education should give Gonski a proper look in.

Meanwhile, the Liberals can finally give Bishop the top job. They need her there to distract everyone from the lack of women in their party (make Marise Payne deputy leader to double-down on that), and given Bishop has been a perpetual deputy it will put all the Liberals in the right frame of mind to spend the next 5-10 years working out what they want their party to actually be.

Who knows how the Nationals will perform, but it will be a distinctly different voice so that people can think of it as a circuit-breaker, and it will at least give more than lip service to the Nationals role in the Coalition, while undoubtedly curbing their natural instincts to be protectionist (presumably).

I'm only quarter joking.
Actually you just jogged my memory, if there is one person that I don't mind on the Libs side that is Marise Payne.
Seems like a straight shooter when I have heard her speak.
 

Bomberboyokay

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Traditionally, the Labor leader in the lower house is of the right faction, with the Senate leader coming from the left. Rudd was the exception to the norm, as he was unaffiliated - Gillard was historically and notionally of the left, but she obtained the Prime Ministership through the support of the right.
I remain convinced that was the reason she didn't touch gay marriage. Her 'change of opinion' post-politics didn't fool me.
 

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As long as the Libs hang their hat on Howard they can't move forward as they need to. History will be far kinder to the Rudd/Gillard government, even Paul Kelly admitted it was a success, than the Howard years. It's taken less than ten years to see Howard's alleged legacy to be pulled to pieces.
Not sure this is true, especially the last sentence. Essential polls the best PMs every couple of years, and last year when they did it Howard was still rated top.

Not saying I actually believe Howard was the best PM by any stretch, but to say the gloss has come off his tenure is far from the truth.

Rudd and Gillard will struggle legacy-wise because a lot of what they did was unwound pretty much immediately. Perhaps they will get credit for being ahead of their time if their policies experience a resurgence down the line.
 

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Mateyman

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Not sure this is true, especially the last sentence. Essential polls the best PMs every couple of years, and last year when they did it Howard was still rated top.

Not saying I actually believe Howard was the best PM by any stretch, but to say the gloss has come off his tenure is far from the truth.

Rudd and Gillard will struggle legacy-wise because a lot of what they did was unwound pretty much immediately. Perhaps they will get credit for being ahead of their time if their policies experience a resurgence down the line.
This was the poll where they asked who was the best prime minister and then compared Howard to about 5 Labor PMs (who naturally took votes from each other) and then made out that it was surprising that Howard got the highest overall vote in that scenario?
 

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Forgot about her, but the same question remains, should age be a factor? I suppose it depends on the person as both Derryn and Hilary seem on the ball.
Isn't the view now that 70 is really the old 50 given medical advances?
Yeah but his liver is only 4 so he will be good
 
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I remain convinced that was the reason she didn't touch gay marriage. Her 'change of opinion' post-politics didn't fool me.
Gillard never got married herself. I think she's of that old school feminist mold that says marriage came out of a paternalistic concept of owning women, so why would a modern woman take part in it?

There's similar thinking from some gay writers. Given marriage for so long has been associated with religion and religions in the past weren't very nice to gay people, then some people think gay people shouldn't want to get married. I'd have to look at her comments more closely, but she was openly atheist and I wonder if her comments about tradition could have slyly said that she was listening to those opinions, without really endorsing the conservative schools of thought.

Of course in both cases the far more popular opinion is to say that marriage is about official commitment to loving one other, and a lot of people love the feeling of stability it gives - especially when they're setting off on the long-term project of building a family.
 

Demosthenes

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Those records are hugely inflated by the amount of legislation that gets passed without anyone even debating it
That as may be, but it still shows that she comes along with the Coalition government far more often than with the Labor opposition.

She's hardly going to be massively obstructive in the event of a minority Coalition government, which is what many on these boards seem to be expecting.
 

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Never voted for him but I think John Howard deserves to be rated as one of our best ever PMs. Getting the gun control laws passed is probably one of his finest achievements and I like to think the vast majority of Australians would give him plaudits for it.

Also speaks a lot of sense about this election - well at least in this bit on the ABC website when talking about the Libs angling to knife Malcolm:

They should remember the character of their party. As I have often said their party is a broad church.
He knew how to appease the left and right bits of his party.
 
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Never voted for him but I think John Howard deserves to be rated as one of our best ever PMs. Getting the gun control laws passed is probably one of his finest achievements and I like to think the vast majority of Australians would give him plaudits for it.
Did he have any outstanding achievements other than that though?

He was very good at riding the wave of the day, but he didn't really have any long-term goal in mind during his time as leader. He wasn't a reformer in any sense either.

Also speaks a lot of sense about this election - well at least in this bit on the ABC website when talking about the Libs angling to knife Malcolm:
The broad church concept only works as long as there is something to be a broad church about. There is nothing to bring them together.

He knew how to appease the left and right bits of his party.
:rage:
 

JeffDunne

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John Howard shifted the political center of the country hard right.

We were probably the most liberal western democracy when he came to power and the most conservative when he lost power.

History won't view him well.
 

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Did he have any outstanding achievements other than that though?

He was very good at riding the wave of the day, but he didn't really have any long-term goal in mind during his time as leader. He wasn't a reformer in any sense either.



The broad church concept only works as long as there is something to be a broad church about. There is nothing to bring them together.



:rage:
Not really, but aside from my own personal misgivings about his handling of Tampa and broader criticism of the increasing security state since 9/11 (not that an ALP government would've done it differently btw), he was competent and the economy went along well. The proportion of the success that can be attributed to him and government is up for debate.

I don't remember any divisions in the Liberal Party at the time when he was PM aside from of course Costello constantly angling for his job. Maybe it's the nostalgia talking. The modern Liberal Party is now deeply divided and while I enjoy seeing them fail, I'd rather they got their shit together.
 

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John Howard shifted the political center of the country hard right.

We were probably the most liberal western democracy when he came to power and the most conservative when he lost power.

History won't view him well.
Examples of the 'hard right'? Certainly not as hard right as Tony and co.
 

Demosthenes

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This was the poll where they asked who was the best prime minister and then compared Howard to about 5 Labor PMs (who naturally took votes from each other) and then made out that it was surprising that Howard got the highest overall vote in that scenario?
Pretty sure it included all PMs from Abbott back to at least Whitlam, so no, it's not the poll you're thinking of.

Anyway, I'm not arguing the validity of the poll's overall result - I certainly don't think Howard is the best PM.

My point is relative consistency of Howard's performance in it. They run the same poll every few years, and Howard's vote hasn't dropped off since he left office. That sort of gives the lie to the claim that the shine has come off his legacy.
 
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