Confirmed - Live Trade 3: Carlton receive #19 and future 1st from Adelaide for their future 1st | Page 27 | BigFooty

Confirmed Live Trade 3: Carlton receive #19 and future 1st from Adelaide for their future 1st

Discussion in 'Drafts, Trading & Free Agency' started by Lore, Nov 23, 2018.

  1. My name geoff

    My name geoff Premiership Player

    Carlton
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    To secure other players and to help other deals.

    I.e Palmer helped us secure Marchbank and Pickett
     

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  2. RedFury

    RedFury Club Legend

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    Bigfooty, footy and sport in general follows this trend. Surely you're not surprised by this?
     
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  3. RedFury

    RedFury Club Legend

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    This is an interesting link which I hadn't seen before.

    It's important to realize we didn't do the trade for pick 19. We did it for Stocker who we rated at pick 6. SOS wasn't interested in the deal if it didn't land us Stocker, which indicates that he would actually agree with most of the neutral posters on here who are comparing the numbers using 19 and saying it's a poor deal.

    This means that even if - hypothetically - during trade period we did the same deal but got back Pick 9 instead of 19 - we're probably still taking Stocker with that pick. But the trade would get a whole lot less attention because the numbers balance more.

    Also, we're clearly backing ourselves to rise up the ladder a bit. Would we do the deal if pick 1-2 was a lock for us in 2019? Well, we probably wouldn't and despite what other supporters might say - it's actually not a lock.

    Is it risky? Hell yes. Could it backfire and end up looking like a terrible trade? Yes of course it could, but it will also give us significant benefit with our rebuild if our assessment is correct and it pays off.

    Ultimately if Stocker ends up being the gun that Carlton think he is, then nobody will care about the pick swap anyway. If he's not - then it's our talent identification and assessment of Stocker that's let us down more than our draft strategy imo.
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2018 at 12:09 AM
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  4. LemmingMaster

    LemmingMaster Norm Smith Medallist

    Carlton
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    He may also be the contested beast that has the ability to kick on both sides of his body and even looks more composed on his non preferred side as Carlton seem to have rated him.

    Stocker can be another potential test cast like Cripps was when we "reached" to pick him up.
    Then again we "reached" for Bootsma....
     
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  5. Kernafides

    Kernafides Team Captain

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    And to add to the earlier post palmer traded for pick 135...should give you a clue it was a dump muppet
     
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  6. Dudersaurus

    Dudersaurus Debutant

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    No probs champ. You schooled me.

    I was never wondering whether or not it was a dump, and never used it as an example.

    I was just wondering how having to pay salaries for other clubs helped you in general. If you say it was necessary to get another deal done then clearly it was a genius move. Congratulations.
     
  7. Monkey King

    Monkey King Brownlow Medallist

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    This kind of one dimensional perspective on recruiting currency is outdated now live trading has emerged. Probably gonna take a few of the slower ones a few drafts to catch up. Carlton didn’t want pick 19. They wanted Stocker. No Stocker. No trade. Doesn’t matter whether it was pick 10 or 50 from Carlton’s perspective, they just wanted their player.
     
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  8. eastfreo75

    eastfreo75 Norm Smith Medallist

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    If Stocker is that good (value pick 6), why did so many teams didn't select him?

    This trade is classic overrating your ability to judge talent.
     
  9. Brutalitops

    Brutalitops Club Legend

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    Because it allowed us to meet the salary floor during the reset without over inflating our kids' contracts. Overpaying kids early can lead to culture and cap issues later on.
     
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  10. Alwaysacrow

    Alwaysacrow Club Legend

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    There has been much debate for some time about the ability of SOS to choose draft picks.
    I think this trade of pick swaps for Stocker will either make or break SOS.
     
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  11. Dudersaurus

    Dudersaurus Debutant

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    That is actually a sensible response. Without name calling. Thank you.
     

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  12. LemmingMaster

    LemmingMaster Norm Smith Medallist

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    This is a classic example of backing in your ability to judge talent.
    Your statements are a classic example of judging a trade way before all the information is available.

    There are so many unknowns at the moment that judging this trade with an clarity is impossible.

    Stockers ability?
    Where does Carlton finish?
    Where does Adelaide finish?
    Who does Adelaide pick? Who would have Carlton picked with that same selection?
    Who does Carlton pick? Who would have Adelaide picked if they had the same selection?

    Using Adelaide as an example, when they picked up Doedee early, you could have gone to that board and watched the explosions.
    Now those same Adelaide fans will be patting their recruitment team on the backs.
     
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  13. eastfreo75

    eastfreo75 Norm Smith Medallist

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    My main point is in previous years all the clubs say that couldn't believe x player had fallen to their pick but they rated x way higher.

    Their is no evidence that any club is extremely better at drafting than the rest of league. Every team has great, good and failed picks. Sure, some teams do it better but even still it's not like one club is way ahead of the pack.
     
  14. Monkey King

    Monkey King Brownlow Medallist

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    Could’ve asked the same question about Brodie Grundy and I know a few clubs rated him higher than where he went. The equation for Carlton is a simple one; slide next years first to secure Stocker. The only questions are, what is the slide going to cost and is Stocker going to be worth that cost.

    Now I doubt you’ve seen much of Stocker play footy and there’s nothing to base the cost of the slide on other right now than speculation about the future; and yet you think you’ve got enough to call bust on the trade. What did Masters and Johnson say ... 4 minutes or 50 strokes? Slow down son.
     
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  15. eastfreo75

    eastfreo75 Norm Smith Medallist

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    sure a lot of unknowns.

    Still think that previous draft history in terms of values of picks should come into teams thinking. Example pick 1 is more likely to be an All Australian and play 200 plus games than pick 19.

    Doedee pick was a surprise for sure, but the Crows gave up pick 17. Statically median of 92 games.

    Again, the risk - reward ratio makes this trade extremely unwise.

    Remember, Conca went pick 6 and Collingwood rated Murphy at pick 7.

    By the way, where was Stocker on your list?
     
  16. RobR

    RobR Club Legend

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    You keep repeating mate, it's simple we wait and see.
     
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  17. Arr0w

    Arr0w Brownlow Medallist

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    It now seems that you are refuting your own arguments
     
  18. eastfreo75

    eastfreo75 Norm Smith Medallist

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    Grundy fell because he was a ruck and no ruck was taken before him. Stocker had inside mids taken before pick 19.

    I pretty sure other teams saw Stocker play and did their homework into them.

    Stocker isn't the issue, it's reward-risk is favored towards the Crows.
     
  19. footyfan78

    footyfan78 Brownlow Medallist

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    there are no other teams worthy
    Some will never ever get it. Live trading is well beyond some, clearly.
     
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  20. eastfreo75

    eastfreo75 Norm Smith Medallist

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    what?

    Quote Bolton "back yourself in boys" (not exact quote).

    I really hope this trade works out for the Blues, but for your sake Stocker isn't another Conca.
     
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  21. Moist Biscuit

    Moist Biscuit Brownlow Medallist

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    Pick 1/2 for picks 16 and 19...Hmmm I'll pass on that one thanks.
     
  22. My name geoff

    My name geoff Premiership Player

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    When Paul Brodie, Michael Agresta and Stephen Silvagni (guys who actually watched Stocker play) are all first pumping over the deal, I think that shows one major difference between good recruiters and bigfooty .. Bigfooty experts put disproportionate emphasis on the draft pick over the actual players.

    The Carlton recruiter rated Stocker as the 6th best player in the draft, that’s the bottom line. I think every recruiter would take a player they rated at pick 6 in a super draft for a swap of first rounders in the next draft.
     
  23. Jeremias

    Jeremias Moderator

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    That wasn’t the trade.

    What about pick 6 for Stocker and pick 11?

    See - I can use hypothetical situations to make the trade look one-sided the other way too.
     
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  24. Monkey King

    Monkey King Brownlow Medallist

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    Of course. How else would Carlton get the Crows to trade without the lure of reward?

    So basically what I’m getting from you is that you haven’t seen much of Stocker other than where he was drafted; you don’t know what picks will be involved in the slide, but you do speculate and based on that, don’t like the trade because you see risk. Fair enough. You’re risk averse.

    Me not so much and I back the risks SOS takes; he’s squeezed this lemon for a lot of juice since he got here and he’s just trying to get a few more drops. You can see the payoff they’re looking for. If they’re right about their player the trade makes good sense. If not, it’s gonna look bad. That’s what this will all boil down to ... was Stocker worth the slide.
     
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  25. RobR

    RobR Club Legend

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    You left out Stocker again.
     
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