Liverpools cash woes revealed - Losing 1 mill a week

Godzke

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#51
Godzke, in reference to your second Forbes link, I quote from the article: ``Forbes determined the value using previous sales, broadcast agreements and debt from stadium construction''.

Thanks for the link, as it makes for interesting reading, but I'm not talking about brand value, as such, but more brand appeal, where global fan-bases and brand recognition are the most important determinants. Obviously such an assessment is very difficult to make with a league like the EPL, where supporter enclaves exist in virtually every country.
I think you're underestimating brand value. It's figures like that one that potential owners will be looking for. They know Liverpool have a large fanbase, both domestically and overseas, but what does that translate to in terms of financial gain?

Seems that football teams (and I’m talking proper football here) dominate the list because of their ability to draw money from jersey sponsorship, stadium sponsorship and merchandising.
Compare United and Liverpool based on those three facets. Jersey sponsorship, as seen in my other thread, has Liverpool and United neck and neck at 20m GBP a year.

Stadium sponorship? I wouldn't have a clue. Someone else will need to pipe up here.

Which leaves merchandising. Which I feel is the epic difference between Liverpool and United. Half of United's fans might be Asians (probably means Park is their greatest ever signing lulz) but that's still incredible brand power.

Shirt sales, afaik, is directly correlated with the size of your fanbase and the recognition and respect that fan base pays towards your club. ie. disenchanted fans are less likely to buy shirts.
 

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Big Cox

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Thread starter #54
Liverpool would have more global appeal if Fernando just admitted that jabbing poo was more than just a passing interest in his life
 

bus24

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#56
lol, what are you banging on about Embers?

'Liverpool fans don't know the situation' etc. Of course everyone knows the situation.

We're ****ed unless we get bought out - which we will. The owners have to sell and sell soon. It's really quite a clear situation.

The leeches will hang on until the last possible moment, when they'll be forced to lower their asking price.

It'll drag on for a bit, but the won't get to re-finance again.

Hicks needs the money quickly anyway, he's got multiple large lawsuits against him back home (surprise, surprise :rolleyes:) - which he's going to lose.

It'll work out, but things seem set to drag on for a while longer yet.
 

twentydollarnote

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#58
they will only do that if they run out of money and cant find a buyer and as they should be able to find someone considering the appeal of the club, then it wont happen.
 

Lightning_Rod

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#59
they will only do that if they run out of money and cant find a buyer and as they should be able to find someone considering the appeal of the club, then it wont happen.
why would anyone buy the club at an inflated figure when they know if they hold off 2 months they will get it at a bargain price, we arent talking about dyed in the wool, merseysiders that are going to purchase the club, its going to be business men, looking for the best possible deal they can get, and at the moment im struggling to find this "appeal" you speak of, we are actually in a shambles, and it's going to cost the potential buyer a lot of money to drag this "appealing" club up to a level that is going to be satisfactory or atleast competitive (monetary) wise with the mancs and chelski.
 

bus24

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#60
im struggling to find this "appeal" you speak of, we are actually in a shambles, and it's going to cost the potential buyer a lot of money to drag this "appealing" club up to a level that is going to be satisfactory or atleast competitive (monetary) wise with the mancs and chelski.
Because it's Liverpool FC. Still the most successful English club in history.

Just because we're a complete shambles at present, doesn't mean there's no appeal.
 

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bus24

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#62
What appeal is there financially?
The brand. That's quite obvious.

Nothing will happen in regards to a sale for a month or two, as the Yanks will cling on for however long they can, hoping to scrounge a couple more pennies for themselves, but it will happen at some stage relatively soon.

Read the other day that Hicks' MLB team got taken back by the league (or was going to be) - something along those lines, anyway.
 

DBAH0

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#63
I thought Hicks already sold the Texas Rangers but I could be mistaken on that.

I know there's plans for the Dallas Stars to be bought out from Hicks also, which shows how much he is screwed ATM.

As the supporter of a club whose owners at the time took us to a debt of over $100M, I have no sympathy for Liverpool.
 

r dub 19

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#64
The brand. That's quite obvious.

Nothing will happen in regards to a sale for a month or two, as the Yanks will cling on for however long they can, hoping to scrounge a couple more pennies for themselves, but it will happen at some stage relatively soon.

Read the other day that Hicks' MLB team got taken back by the league (or was going to be) - something along those lines, anyway.

You can't really say "brand" in financial terms. Goodwill, intangibles?

Brand would of lost a lot of value as well.
 

bus24

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#65
You can't really say "brand" in financial terms.

Brand would of lost a lot of value as well.
Yes I can.

Not over one season. Maybe over a sustained period of shit, yes. But one bad season isn't going to wipe clean brand value.

If we don't get sold soon, then yeah, brand value will continually plummet - but at the moment, it's relatively unaffected.
 
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#66
The brand has huge long-term potential, that's not in any doubt. The problem is that to maximise it at the moment there's an awful lot of serious investment involved.

Bring down the debt-to-expenditure ratio, keep the wage payments up, get the new stadium built... AND find money for a transfer budget. It's a big ask.
 

Dagger5

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#68
As I have stated in the Liverpool thread before, I think we will require a billion pounds of investment which is massive. Buying out the club, paying off debts, building the stadium and providing transfer funds make up this figure.

ATM I would love for stability to return but I am wary about any potential new owners damaging the club further.
 

r dub 19

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#69
Yes I can.

Not over one season. Maybe over a sustained period of shit, yes. But one bad season isn't going to wipe clean brand value.

If we don't get sold soon, then yeah, brand value will continually plummet - but at the moment, it's relatively unaffected.
Great that you can. But do you honestly think a buyer would be satisfied with no figures just "liverpool brand"?

It doesn't work like that.
 

bus24

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#70
Great that you can. But do you honestly think a buyer would be satisfied with no figures just "liverpool brand"?
The 'brand' has everything to do with figures long term.

If they think they can get a decent ROI, then yes - they'll be more than satisfied.

Like BB says, the potential of the brand is massive, you shouldn't delude yourself otherwise.

We missed the marketing boat, and that allowed Man United to skip ahead of us - and basically got us into the situation we're in now.
 

r dub 19

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#71
The 'brand' has everything to do with figures long term.

If they think they can get a decent ROI, then yes - they'll be more than satisfied.

Like BB says, the potential of the brand is massive, you shouldn't delude yourself otherwise.

We missed the marketing boat, and that allowed Man United to skip ahead of us - and basically got us into the situation we're in now.
Yes but there is nothing that suggests there will be a decent ROI and saying we have a strong brand simply will not be a good enough reason for a potential buyer.
 

r dub 19

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#73
lol well what else is there?

"We've got a pretty good coffee machine"?
Exactly my point, you need figures for investment. Assets, Revenue, debt, debt/equity ratios, cashflow etc etc. This will always be the main determinant for investment.

You could put dirk kuyt as a current asset worth 5 billion based on his promotional career.
 
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#74
You could put dirk kuyt as a current asset worth 5 billion based on his promotional career.
No you couldn't, that asset isn't realisable in 12 months, therefore not a current asset?

I think you're looking at it pretty narrow-mindedly if you ask me.

What price could you put on rescuing England's most successful club? What price could you put on the prestige of owning England's most successful club?

Figures and returns on investments are an incredibly big part of the decision to invest in Liverpool, but for you to suggest that these are the only thing that matters and prove that there will be no turn-around financially? Please.

Haven't we got one of the biggest sponsorship deals in the premier league? Obviously our sponsors are confident it'll turn around - why would they want to be associated with a lost cause?

Liverpool has something to offer that a lot of clubs can't offer - that's history. And with a suitable investor, there's absolutely nothing to suggest that this financial situation can't be turned around.
 

r dub 19

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#75
No you couldn't, that asset isn't realisable in 12 months, therefore not a current asset?

I think you're looking at it pretty narrow-mindedly if you ask me.

What price could you put on rescuing England's most successful club? What price could you put on the prestige of owning England's most successful club?

Figures and returns on investments are an incredibly big part of the decision to invest in Liverpool, but for you to suggest that these are the only thing that matters and prove that there will be no turn-around financially? Please.

Haven't we got one of the biggest sponsorship deals in the premier league? Obviously our sponsors are confident it'll turn around - why would they want to be associated with a lost cause?

Liverpool has something to offer that a lot of clubs can't offer - that's history. And with a suitable investor, there's absolutely nothing to suggest that this financial situation can't be turned around.
-Was obviously joking about kuyt.
-Please indicate where I have said figures are the only determinant of investment. I said It was the main determinant of investment.

-As I said brand value is hard to put into financial terms. But FWIW "rescuing englands most successful club" and owning "the most prestigious club" means nothing if it can't be associated via synergies with another brand. That is basic brand management.

-You need to actually look at the sponsor. Standard Charterd is a minow in the european banking industry and has a market cap smaller than the Australian big 4. Is 20m worth gaining mass exposure across europe and asia in the banking world? Absolutely. When you look at sponsorship deals you need to look at the company.

-History? Lehman brothers had history and where did they end up? As dagger said it will probably take at least 1bn to turn the club around. Right now pool are making a 50million loss a year, with high debt ratios. That is not attractive investment. The best hope is for a man city like owner that doesn't care about losing money to come along and buy the club.
 
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