Current Lloyd Rayney Trial / Appeal

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Coastie19 said:
Can I just ask, what are the theories behind the differences in whether the car was travelling forwards or backwards to the gravesite? Have just read through the thread with a large dedication to this point, but unsure why, as the car was found around the corner and involved in dumping the body. Just struggling to see the relevance. Am I missing something???

If the answer is within the 60 Minutes episode, please don't make me watch it. I don't like watching the Sunday version of A Current Affair.....
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Don't think it matters. Facts are that there were one set of tire prints and no room to turn the car around. I think the point of contention was that the middle bollard which had been under repair may have been known and the bollard was removed. However there seems to be a lump of concrete or wood that the car then ran over (either going forwards or backwards) that pieced underneath the car and cause an engine oil leak.

There was much expert evidence given about the size capacity of the oil and how fast it would flow and run out, and plausible that the car could be driven and disposed of in the Kershaw St, Subiaco with the oil trail then leading back to the disposal site.

A point of contention was when the car was disposed of as one witness said she heard a car schreeching when she was in bed around 2.20 am (she looked at clock radio) and another witness who said he saw a car matching the description driving erratically and schreeching on Thomas St driving towards Kershaw St at around 5.20 am when he had woken up. T

he latter did not fit the prosecution story that Lloyd had disposed of the body, then driven in the opposite direction to home ditched the car and walked home in time for the children not to notice and him not being seen.
 
A "significant cloud" remains over Lloyd Rayney's future as a lawyer after an appeal against a tribunal recommendation that he be struck off the West Australian roll was thrown out.
The Legal Profession Complaints Committee pursued Mr Rayney over allegations of misconduct, including secretly recording conversations on a dictaphone with his wife Corryn before she was murdered in August 2007.
Mr Rayney's lawyer Martin Bennett said the order of the State Administrative Tribunal that referred the matter to the full court of the WA Supreme Court would now take effect and they would determine whether he can keep his job.
"He's presently not able to practise," Mr Bennett told reporters outside the WA Supreme Court on Friday.

www.9news.com.au

'Cloud' over Rayney's future as a lawyer - 9News

Lloyd Rayney has faced a setback in his bid to ensure he can practise law in Western Australia after losing...
www.9news.com.au www.9news.com.au
 

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WASCA report Re; RAYNEY -v- LEGAL PROFESSION COMPLAINTS COMMITTEE [2019] WASCA 104

HEARD :23 APRIL 2019
DELIVERED: 2 AUGUST 2019


Catchwords:
"Legal practitioner - Professional misconduct - Findings of State Administrative Tribunal (Tribunal) that practitioner knowingly contravened Surveillance Devices Act 1998 (WA) in recording conversations with his late wife and knowingly gave false evidence about the recordings - Whether Tribunal's intermediate findings of fact open on the evidence - Whether findings glaringly improbable or contrary to compelling inferences
Practice and procedure - Application to reopen to tender further evidence before the Tribunal on day scheduled for closing submissions - Where additional evidence relevant to expert evidence - Where matters not put to experts - Where Tribunal dismissed practitioner's application - Whether practitioner was denied procedural fairness. Practice and procedure - Applications to adduce further expert evidence and evidence of fact from practitioner on the hearing of the appeal."


For those interested in reading this decision/judgement doc, heads up its a big read.
268 pages.
 
Rayney was back in court yesterday.

Here's the reported outcome of the hearing for his defamation trial against a WA Police forensic investigator.

thewest.com.au

Rayney ‘defamed’ by police forensic investigator

The former top prosecution lawyer cleared of murdering his wife is set for another defamation trial
thewest.com.au thewest.com.au
Lloyd Rayney set for defamation trial against WA Police forensic investigator (online)
Rayney case set for trial (paper)
Tim Clarke
3 October 2019

Lloyd Rayney - the former top prosecution lawyer cleared of murdering his wife - is set for another defamation trial, this time against the WA police forensic investigator who he claims defamed him in a public forum.

Mr Rayney began defamation action against Mark Reynolds in 2015 over a statement made at a forensic science forum in Perth a year earlier.

But with Mr Rayney's many other legal cases including seperate defamation case against WA Police and the battle to retain his law licence - the matter has only now reached the pointy end. Yesterday, that end was confirmed as being a three-day trial in January next year.

Dr Reynolds represented himself at the brief hearing fixing the trial date, saying he would be ready to face the defamation accusation in January.

That three-day trial is set to hear evidence about alleged comments made by Mr Reynolds to a forum in June 2014. Dr Reynolds attended the forum with other detectives from the Operation Dargan taskforce, which investigated the murder of Mr Rayney's wife Corryn.
Click to expand...
 
BFew said:
Rayney was back in court yesterday.

Here's the reported outcome of the hearing for his defamation trial against a WA Police forensic investigator.

thewest.com.au

Rayney ‘defamed’ by police forensic investigator

The former top prosecution lawyer cleared of murdering his wife is set for another defamation trial
thewest.com.au thewest.com.au
Lloyd Rayney set for defamation trial against WA Police forensic investigator (online)
Rayney case set for trial (paper)
Tim Clarke
3 October 2019
Click to expand...

I always wonder, whenever crooked cops or dodgy forensics makes the press in WA whether any of them were involved in the CSK investigation.
 
A follow on from BFew post. Here are the July and August 2016 WASC docs for those who haven't read them.
Both documents are quick reads.


CITATION: RAYNEY -v- REYNOLDS [2016] WASC 219
HEARD :14 JULY 2016
DELIVERED :14 JULY 2016
PUBLISHED:19 JULY 2016



CITATION: RAYNEY -v- REYNOLDS [No 2] [2016] WASC 254
DELIVERED: 16 AUGUST 2016

 
Truckosaurus said:
You'd think any loss of earnings he'd try to claim in damages would be reduced by the fact he's been struck off at least.
Click to expand...
Could he argue he was only struck off due to the police investigations which uncovered the illicit tapping?
 
^ no because Lloyd also lied under oath and misled the Court ^

The State Administrative Tribunal (SAT) described Mr Rayney's conduct as "disgraceful and dishonourable", saying it was satisfied he "was not a fit and proper person to engage in legal practice".
The SAT found Mr Rayney had engaged in professional misconduct by "knowingly giving false evidence on oath" to a 2009 Magistrates Court hearing when he said Corryn Rayney knew, and consented to, the recording of about nine of her conversations on a handheld dictaphone between April and July 2007.

However, the SAT said his actions were "not isolated", because he repeated the false evidence in prior proceedings before the tribunal in 2015 and the Supreme Court during his 2017 defamation case, and again before the tribunal in this matter.
"It is our view that Mr Rayney lacks the honesty and candour that are essential attributes for a legal practitioner," it said in a written judgment.

SAT recommended Mr Rayney be reprimanded and a recommendation be made to the full bench of the Supreme Court that his "name be removed from the roll of persons admitted to the legal profession".
 

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Thought I'd bring that discussion over here as it's off topic in the other thread.

Rayney.png

www.sydneycriminallawyers.com.au

Top DNA Analyst Sacked for Allegedly Fabricating Records

Senior forensic biologist Laurance Webb was sacked for failing to follow protocols and fabricating test records when providing DNA evidence.
www.sydneycriminallawyers.com.au www.sydneycriminallawyers.com.au

BonzaRam said:
This

www.abc.net.au

Sex attacker boasted about Kings Park body before Corryn Rayney killed

A violent sex offender told an acquaintance a body was going to be dumped in Kings Park in the weeks before Lloyd Rayney's wife's disappearance, a court hears.
www.abc.net.au www.abc.net.au

www.dailymail.co.uk

'Someone has literally gotten away with murder'

Barrister Lloyd Rayney, who was wrongly accused of killing his wife Corryn Rayney, is calling for investigators to find her killer.
www.dailymail.co.uk www.dailymail.co.uk
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I understand about the butt being found with that person's DNA on it, but why bring it up in their article? Are they suggesting Webb put the DNA on the butt?
 
sprockets said:
Thought I'd bring that discussion over here as it's off topic in the other thread.

View attachment 817942

www.sydneycriminallawyers.com.au

Top DNA Analyst Sacked for Allegedly Fabricating Records

Senior forensic biologist Laurance Webb was sacked for failing to follow protocols and fabricating test records when providing DNA evidence.
www.sydneycriminallawyers.com.au www.sydneycriminallawyers.com.au


I understand about the butt being found with that person's DNA on it, but why bring it up in their article? Are they suggesting Webb put the DNA on the butt?
Click to expand...
I think it was more to do with saying that DNA evidence was ignored and possibly to just point out he was involved in a wrongful conviction case.
 
BonzaRam said:
I think it was more to do with saying that DNA evidence was ignored and possibly to just point out he was involved in a wrongful conviction case.
Click to expand...
I think you're right, and even though what he did in that case was right.
 
April 21, 2020
Mr Rayney is struck off as a lawyer.
Lloyd Rayney has been struck off as a lawyer for secretly recording Corryn's conversations and then giving false evidence about it in court (he lied)


www.abc.net.au

Lloyd Rayney struck off as a lawyer more than a decade after wife Corryn's unsolved murder

Almost 13 years after the unsolved murder of his wife, former Perth barrister Lloyd Rayney is struck off as a lawyer for secretly recording her conversations and then giving false evidence about it in court.
www.abc.net.au www.abc.net.au



The court said the decision to strike him off, "was essentially because of Mr Rayney's fundamental failure to adhere to his duties to the court to act honestly".

The court ruled that Mr Rayney's "dishonest behaviour" was so serious that "the only appropriate order for the court to make was an order to remove Mr Rayney's name from the roll of practitioners".
 
Eaglette01 said:
April 21, 2020
Mr Rayney is struck off as a lawyer.
Lloyd Rayney has been struck off as a lawyer for secretly recording Corryn's conversations and then giving false evidence about it in court (he lied)


www.abc.net.au

Lloyd Rayney struck off as a lawyer more than a decade after wife Corryn's unsolved murder

Almost 13 years after the unsolved murder of his wife, former Perth barrister Lloyd Rayney is struck off as a lawyer for secretly recording her conversations and then giving false evidence about it in court.
www.abc.net.au www.abc.net.au
Click to expand...

Cya Lloyd.
 
Lloyd Rayney is suing again for defamation over comments he claims he murdered his wife and got away with it.


Almost 13 years after his wife's mysterious death, former prominent Perth barrister Lloyd Rayney is back in court claiming comments by a forensic investigator at a public forum suggested he had murdered her and got away with it.

Key points:
  • Mark Reynolds worked on the Corryn Rayney murder case
  • He was recorded saying there was no need for a cold case review
  • Lloyd Rayney was acquitted of his wife's murder in a judge-only trial
Mr Rayney is suing Mark Reynolds, who worked with WA Police during the investigation into the death of 44-year-old Corryn Rayney in August 2007.

www.abc.net.au

Lloyd Rayney sues over comments he says suggest he got away with wife's murder

Almost 13 years after his wife's mysterious death, former prominent Perth barrister Lloyd Rayney is back in court claiming comments by a forensic investigator at a public forum suggested he had murdered her and got away with it.
www.abc.net.au www.abc.net.au
 
Rayney wants more money and has asked that three appeal court judges remove themselves from the hearing.


The lawyer for former criminal barrister Lloyd Rayney has asked three Court of Appeal justices to remove themselves from hearing whether or not Mr Rayney deserves more money than the $2.62 million awarded him after being cleared over the murder of his wife.

Mr Rayney, who has been struck off from practising law, has launched an appeal over the awarded damages on the grounds he could provide further evidence of significant earning losses caused by the murder investigation.

www.watoday.com.au

Call for fresh ears to Lloyd Rayney's pleas for more money

The lawyer for ex-criminal barrister Lloyd Rayney has asked three Court of Appeal justices to remove themselves from hearing whether or not Mr Rayney deserves more money.
www.watoday.com.au www.watoday.com.au
 
There is one anomaly in this case that I cannot reconcile and find extraordinary. Ill list a timeline to illustrate this anomaly.

7th August, 2007, Corryn Rayney vanishes after 9:30pm after leaving the Bentley Community Center.

9th August 2007, Police appeal to the public to help locate Corryn Rayneys car. The public are notified by the police through the media outlets to help locate the vehicle.
www.perthnow.com.au

Timeline for Rayney murder

TIMELINE of events in the disappearance and murder of West Australian Supreme Court registrar Corryn Veronica Anne Rayney, 44.
www.perthnow.com.au www.perthnow.com.au

The vehicle was first witnessed in Kershaw street on 8th August between 7:51am and 7:57am by rubbish collector David Gordon who testified he noticed the oil stain leading up to the vehicle, approximately 10 hours after she has gone missing.
thewest.com.au

Woman tells of noisy car

A Subiaco resident told the Supreme Court yesterday she heard a car "struggling" to gain power just hours after Corryn Rayney was allegedly murdered.
thewest.com.au thewest.com.au

Tuesday 14th August just before midnight, Police locate Corryn Rayneys car in Kershaw st, Subiaco.
mobile.abc.net.au

Police locate car of missing Perth woman Corryn Rayney

Police in Perth say there has been been a major development in the search for missing Perth woman Corryn Rayney.
mobile.abc.net.au mobile.abc.net.au

Police are informed of the location of the car by a resident of Kershaw street. The resident is unnamed and it is not stated whether the resident called police about possibly locating Corryns Ford Fairmont or if it was a report of a random abandon car that ended up being Corryns.
The police state "Kershaw Street is a residential street and there's a lot of expensive cars there so it wasn't out of place." is a baffling statement to me as this is an affluent street, with an unknown car parked in the street for over a week having an oil stain running down the street to the vehicle signaling strongly to the residents that this is an abandoned stolen car that clearly doesn't belong.
https://www.smh.com.au/national/missing-perth-womans-car-found-20070815-gdqv6z.html

Police soon after follow the oil trail from the car to the burial site in King's Park
www.abc.net.au

Police find body of Corryn Rayney in Kings Park

Police in Perth have held a media conference to reveal they have found the body of missing woman Corryn Rayney in Kings Park.
www.abc.net.au www.abc.net.au

Barrister Mark Trowell, who lives on Kershaw street, Subiaco, testifies at the trial that he only became aware that Corryn Rayneys vehicle had been found on his street when detectives knocked on his door about 1am on August 15, 2007. (One week after it was witnessed by rubbish collector David Gordon.)
Mr. Trowell also testifies that he and a friend who is an ex-detective, noticed the car on 11th August (two days after the public police appeal to help locate the car) commenting that he and his friend were talking about the case, specifically the car in question (as if they knew full well of the public appeal to help locate the car) with Mr. Trowell asking his friend what a Ford Fairmont looks like where his friend pointed to the car, stating "It looks like that".
https://www.watoday.com.au/national...al-second-day-of-evidence-20120725-22p1i.html - (my comments are in brackets)

Multiple high profile lawyers live or own property on Kershaw street. Michael Webb, a friend of the Rayneys, who is married to criminal barrister Linda Black, testified that Mr and Mrs Rayney had been over to his Kershaw street property on social gatherings to play bridge on 'numerous' occasions.
www.perthnow.com.au

Rayney car dumped in 'lawyer' street

IN a day that saw some of Perth's top lawyers called to the witness box, a prominent criminal barrister tells how he found Mrs Rayney's car on his street.
www.perthnow.com.au www.perthnow.com.au
www.brisbanetimes.com.au

Lawyers in Rayney trial hotseat

A who’s who of the Perth legal fraternity appeared at the murder trial of Lloyd Rayney yesterday, with prominent barristers Philip Urquhart and Mark Trowell giving evidence. Michael Webb, the husband of barrister Linda Black, also took the stand.
www.brisbanetimes.com.au www.brisbanetimes.com.au

Ok, before I hit the punchline, after reading through this entire thread, I wish to point out the theory of the other possible perpetrator that may have committed this murder that has been posited in this thread to try and reconcile how they knew of the Rayneys Kershaw street link to plant the car there to possibly frame Mr. Rayney, or is it just merely coincidence that they just by chance ended up at the Kershaw street dumping spot ?

To me, it can only be two options, that they knew of Mr. Rayneys associations with people who lived on Kershaw (and how can they possibly obtain such information) or it was a total coincidence they dumped the car there.

So, to get to the point, Kershaw street is a very affluent part of Subiaco with known high profile lawyers and barristers owning property on the street.
Today, because this has been bugging me and my brother after we brought up this case in conversation recently, my brother drove down Kershaw in his work ute noting how cars are parked, presumably by owners along both sides of the road, making it very difficult for two way traffic to flow down the street. He told me that you would have to pull to one side of the street and park against the kerb to allow a car to pass you.

I state this because any car that is parked on that street for any length of time that is not known to the residence of that street would quickly become a hindrance to the residents, taking up parking space used by the residents and become a nuisance, alerting attention.

I find it impossible to believe, that in light of the police public appeal to locate the car and regardless of the appeal also, that one of these higher society 'yuppy' types that live on that street, noticing the heavy oil stain from the vehicle running the length of the street, as stated by rubbish collector David Gordon and used by police to trail back to the burial site, that not one of the residents noticed this car, a car that the public had been asked to be on the lookout for, nor even call police to have an unknown possibly dumped and stolen car removed from their street.

That it took seven days for a resident to contact police about the car, that has an oil trail running from it and not one testified or stated to police that they noticed it until they were informed by police or saw the commotion on their cordoned off street a week later, except obvioulsy the one who called into police to report it. But a whole week later ??

Ultimately, I have no idea who committed this crime and don't have a strong bias either way as it is best to let facts dictate positions. It could of possibly been Rayney, or this other named person or anyone else for all I know.

Thanks :)
 
PerthDan said:
I find it impossible to believe, that in light of the police public appeal to locate the car and regardless of the appeal also, that one of these higher society 'yuppy' types that live on that street, noticing the heavy oil stain from the vehicle running the length of the street, as stated by rubbish collector David Gordon and used by police to trail back to the burial site, that not one of the residents noticed this car, a car that the public had been asked to be on the lookout for, nor even call police to have an unknown possibly dumped and stolen car removed from their street.

That it took seven days for a resident to contact police about the car, that has an oil trail running from it and not one testified or stated to police that they noticed it until they were informed by police or saw the commotion on their cordoned off street a week later, except obvioulsy the one who called into police to report it. But a whole week later ??
Click to expand...
I can offer the answer I was given to the issue of the residents not noticing the car when I questioned that myself, as I happen to know someone who lives in that street who shared their perspective with me at the time.

They suggest the car was left quite close to the southern end that is much closer to Thomas St & without bothering with the exact long-winded reason for it, many residents prefer to routinely enter & exit from the opposite end of the street without reason to have ever gone past the car & therefore, many probably didn't ever see it at all.

As you said, it's a narrow street which actually raises through the middle & lowers at each end with a lot of very large verge trees & staggered cars parked along both sides that you have to weave through to drive the length, so if you're closer to the northern end you don't have a particularly clear line of sight right to the southern end, if at all, & without going down there you wouldn't clearly notice it regardless.

The first of the 2 large properties located at the end the car was left actually front Heytesbury Rd not Kershaw St, so those residents likely didn't have any reason to drive through the street to notice it either.

Far from it being a street full of "yuppy types" as you suggest, the 2nd of those 2 properties is actually a large single mens hostel with a very transient resident base who may not be all that familiar with the streets "usual" cars & there's plenty of different cars often in attendance there as well. It also backs directly onto the open laneway which is usually the prefered route for those on foot & it also has its own large off-street parking area for any residents cars which is accessible from there.

The next 3 houses nearest to the car on the side it was parked & including the named person whose house it was parked in front of, all have garages at the rear & they too all enter/exit their properties via the laneway as well & don't drive through the street, so again, none would pass the car & none have much reason to be out there aside from perhaps checking the mailbox & putting the bins out, (or answering the front door to a detective at 1am).

The people that occupied the house directly opposite the car were probably the most likely to have noticed it but they were away on holidays so weren't there at all.

Next door to them is another large property that boards indigenous country students studying in Perth, most of whom had only just returned from school holidays & who may not have even been aware of the missing car let alone been observant as to which vehicles usually occupy the street. Most of them don’t have vehicles but they too have plenty of onsite parking if required so the taken up parking space wouldn’t have bothered them either.
3 of the next 4 properties closest to the car are all set back from the street & all have their own driveways onsite in which to park so again, none of them are fighting for the scarce parking spaces you envisage. The only other house on that side & very near to the cars location actually do park their cars on the street and it was those that were parked where they usually did behind the Fairmont hence blocking any clear view of it from the north.

That takes care of all the people living nearby who might ordinarily have been expected to noticed an out of place car parked near their house.

As for the oil stain, it really wasn't that obvious either. Perhaps more so for the garbage truck guy tasked with running up the length where the vehicle had travelled collecting bins and taking each one back to the truck while the street was largely empty, but not for anyone just passing down the road and certainly not when the majority of residents were at home of an evening with those who usually park on the street also being at home & obviously parked there too.
As I said before, it's not actually a flat street & a straight line of sight from one end to the other isn't as clear as you might imagine, so it really didn't stick out like the sore thumb your envisaging it should have been to be readily noticed. I'd probably take a punt on the fact that many residents didn't see it at all & clearly of those that did, none saw it as being unusual enough to pay attention to so it obviously wasn't that out of place.

Perhaps too, with the fact you've mentioned about the Rayneys having visited the street numerous times themselves & knowing the location they would have attempted to park at those times, maybe that particular car wasn’t as unfamiliar to the residents & you assume it should have been? Perhaps exactly the reason it was paid such scant attention then, was because the long term residents had been seen it parked nearby on other occassions?

I admit I also visited the street at the time the car was there & despite being fully aware it was sought after & also having parked reasonably close to where I know it was located, I didn't notice it there either.

I also suggest 1 thing that probably wouldn’t have been in the first 5 conclusions any resident of that street might have come too if noticing the car, was that it had been stolen & abandoned! That’s not a neighbourhood concern generally and definitely wouldn’t have been an "obvious" conclusion for any of them. I'd be more inclined to imagine any that perhaps did notice the car & who also recognised it was damaged would likely have displayed even more tolerance for the fact it was there with the knowledge it was probably unable to be moved & especially so if they had seen it in the street before.

Keep in mind too, that any residents who did see the car & didn't make the connection, had probably first seen it days before they even knew to keep an eye out for a missing car which by then, they were used to seeing it in the street so probably didn't even think to take a closer look even when it became known they should have.

There's also several other businesses nearby that regularly have clients parking in the street so it's not quite the solely residential area you expect it would be & there's often unknown cars occupying it throughout the day.

As unbelievable as it may seem to you on the surface, that's the explanation given to me & one I can readily accept as being accurate & completely understandable knowing the dynamic of the area over a far longer duration than a solo drive up the street on one occassion could ever have given me.

They’re a tolerant community who has many different people coming and going & they largely mind their business rather than getting in everyone else’s. The car could have been anyone’s & it wasn’t as unusual as you imagine to have a random car parked in the street & nor did the fact it was there really impact anyone at all. I know many were just as shocked to realise where it was found that it didn’t jump out at them screaming too, as you're trying to comprehend.

It just goes to show how unexpected it was to find it located there though when as you also said, a lawyer & a detective while discussing that exact car, point to it & comment that's exactly what the vehicle looks like, yet neither even thought to check if it was the actual car they were seeking and was sitting right there in front of them. That's whats almost as unbelievable as the fact that detail came out of the courtroom to begin with.

Fwiw, I don't think it's location was anything more than a coincidence & knowing that area as well as I do, it's actually quite a logical place for it to have ended up considering the damage and the obvious route taken to get there. He/she/they really did just take the first quiet streets off the main roads they could have taken & that was probably the first available space to park that they came across.
 
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