Long-term future of the AFL.

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RedV3x

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The NRL is a laughing stock by calling itself the NRL, but the fact remains until we have teams in Canberra and Tassie we are not a national sport
The NRL is a laughing stock by calling itself the NRL, but the fact remains until we have teams in Canberra and Tassie we are not a national sport

That is only by your definition.
No country would have a national sport by your definition.
FFS AFL is played regularly in Canberra. Tasmania, Darwin, Cairns, Alice Springs and regional centres.
Australian Football is a national sport of Australia, Australian Football the national sport of Australia and Australian Football is the indigenousl sport of Australia,
It is something every Australian should be proud of.
 

RedV3x

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There's not, but there's an oval with space around it immediately west of Western Sydney Stadium.

And it's not been built that's why other cheaper options were taken.

If there ever was an AFL stadium to be built in Parramatta, that would've been the spot to put it.

Quite possibly but who's going to pay for it.
And then it would have taken advantage of the infrastructure of the stadium already next to it.

Explain ?

And no sharing deal with the Easter Show.

Yes, but again, they chose the showgrounds .........because it was cheap and with the infrastructure net door.

It's of little consequence now. GWS is settled at Olympic Park now, including their training oval being upgraded to AFLW standard, and increased transport links coming. But it would've been a good option if it were looked into back in the day. Much closer and central to their target fanbase.

Quite possibly, but we'll never know.
 

RedV3x

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Ot depends what you mean by expansion. Trying to ‘convert’ western Sydney is futile.

The AFL are not trying to "convert" as they major objective.
The major objective is to find people that will the appeal of AFL.

Best to connect with people that are already AFL fans (or at least open to it) in places like Tasmania and Canberra.

Tasmanian are Australian Football fans. It's pure arrogance to say they are AFL fans.
If Tasmanians were AFL fans then they would attend in greater numbers.
Canberrans might be classified more as AFL fans as they less into the local AFL..

If the AFL had their time again I reckon Tas would have entered in 2011 and Canberra in 2012.

it's the AFL and not the VFL - totally different thinking.
We would have 18 solid clubs and now be taking about 19th and 20th teams in 2035.

No way Hose'.
IF you cut the chaff from a league it only feeds other clubs to take their place.
 

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Walshawk

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The AFL are not trying to "convert" as they major objective.
The major objective is to find people that will the appeal of AFL.



Tasmanian are Australian Football fans. It's pure arrogance to say they are AFL fans.
If Tasmanians were AFL fans then they would attend in greater numbers.
Canberrans might be classified more as AFL fans as they less into the local AFL..



it's the AFL and not the VFL - totally different thinking.


No way Hose'.
IF you cut the chaff from a league it only feeds other clubs to take their place.
The evidence suggests otherwise. Why would they pay NRL stars Folau and Hunter $1m unless they were trying to bring over NRL fans? I used AFL as a generic term for AR footy (it is not right but it is commonplace), and what I said is correct. You are just trying to be contrarian. And I have no idea what you are trying to say in your third and fourth comments. Why your reference to VFL? And what does you "chaff'' metaphor refer to?
 

RedV3x

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The evidence suggests otherwise.

What evidence.

Why would they pay NRL stars Folau and Hunter $1m unless they were trying to bring over NRL fans?

For the same reason they got Ablett tot the Suns, Franklin to Sydney and Sheedy to GWS - high profile stars.
For the same reason the AFLW has enough irish players to form a Celtic side - football players.
Folau is more known for RU and Hunter, I suppose you mean Hunt and he played reasonable AFL.
The major push/hope was for onfield success to be the magnet.
The magnet was to attract young unaligned people rather than adults who are almost impossible to "convert".


I used AFL as a generic term for AR footy (it is not right but it is commonplace), and what I said is correct.

In your opinion.

You are just trying to be contrarian.


You are being belligerent.

And I have no idea what you are trying to say in your third and fourth comments. Why your reference to VFL?

You comments also mirror VFL comments rather than AFL comments in that the AFL
is a national competition and as such the emphasis should be on the whole of Australia.

And what does you "chaff'' metaphor refer to?

It's simple. If you remove the lower teams from a league then new teams become the lower teams.
They become the new chaff.
 

Walshawk

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What evidence.



For the same reason they got Ablett tot the Suns, Franklin to Sydney and Sheedy to GWS - high profile stars.
For the same reason the AFLW has enough irish players to form a Celtic side - football players.
Folau is more known for RU and Hunter, I suppose you mean Hunt and he played reasonable AFL.
The major push/hope was for onfield success to be the magnet.
The magnet was to attract young unaligned people rather than adults who are almost impossible to "convert".




In your opinion.




You are being belligerent.



You comments also mirror VFL comments rather than AFL comments in that the AFL
is a national competition and as such the emphasis should be on the whole of Australia.



It's simple. If you remove the lower teams from a league then new teams become the lower teams.
They become the new chaff.
The evidence is the fact that they recruited NRL stars. Folau had not yet played RU when AFL recruited him. They drafted him to try to win over the RL playing islanders who make up half the junior RL players in Western Sydney. I.e convert. Hunt was an OK player bit would not have been recruited was he not one of the biggest names in RL in SEQ.

Still don’t get the VFL reference. I said they should have put Tas and Canberra in instead of GC & GWS, with those ‘RL territory’ teams coming in down the track. So far there is very little to suggest that GC or GWS was the right move. Crowds are terrible. Rating are worse. Participation has increased in those areas at the same rate as before, and is driven by the Swans in Sydney, GWS has had little impact. Footy would be in a better place now if we has Tas in 2011 and Canberra in 2012.
 

RedV3x

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The evidence is the fact that they recruited NRL stars. Folau

RU star singular. I'm not disputing that but in the overall thrust of things that was really quite minor.
What was major was the investment in development officers going around to schools establishing school competitions
and encouraging juniors to find and play at a local club.

Still don’t get the VFL reference.

Oh come on.
I said they should have put Tas and Canberra in instead of GC & GWS, with those ‘RL territory’ teams coming in down the track.

Yes, you keep stating that infinitum but Tasmania and Canberra add little to the AFL economically.
So far there is very little to suggest that GC or GWS was the right move.

In your opinion only.
Having lived in Sydney for 22 years and returning annually you can see the progress just in the number of goal posts visible.
The number of new clubs and competitions is quite impressive.

Crowds are terrible. Rating are worse.

In AFL terms but not NRL terms.
Your Tasmania and Canberra haven't actually set the football world on fire.

Participation has increased in those areas at the same rate as before,

Show us the proof of that statement.
That would be impossible with the number of new clubs and competitions is quite impressive.

and is driven by the Swans in Sydney,

Actually it's complementary. Anyhow, it's worth it just for the derbies in Sydney - the biggest in Sydney.

GWS has had little impact.

In your opinion. As a complement to the Swans, with the AFL's investment and with the promotion of diversity GWS has done well.
Now, there is pub in Perth that is home to the Swans supporters and the GWS supporters
and I'm simply amazed at the number of GWS supporters, mostly young, rocking up to support GWS.

Footy would be in a better place now if we has Tas in 2011 and Canberra in 2012.

How ?
After the initial rush had died down and Tasmania and Canberra found themselves on the bottom of the ladder
then they would be an economic drain with no increase in Australian Football attendances or ratings.
As is with everywhere, the AFL would have decimated the local leagues for no real nett gain.
And worst of all, we'd have all those NRL trolls saying that AFL is not a truly national competition because
it wasn't represented on the Gold Coast or Western Sydney.
You must realise that the case for Tasmania and Canberra is emotional not economic.
The AFL had an opportunity to open the door to Tasmania by giving it an AFLW team and not bringing in all of the Melbourne AFLW teams
but they didn't and so we are left with a huge leap of (economic) faith for Tasmania to enter.
I hope they do, but open your eyes and cut the crap about GWS - it only harms Tasmania's chances.
 

AJMLaird

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The AFL had an opportunity to open the door to Tasmania by giving it an AFLW team and not bringing in all of the Melbourne AFLW teams
but they didn't and so we are left with a huge leap of (economic) faith for Tasmania to enter.
I hope they do, but open your eyes and cut the crap about GWS - it only harms Tasmania's chances.

They made North Melbourne Tasmania's official team in the AFLW.
 

RedV3x

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They made North Melbourne Tasmania's official team in the AFLW.
That's right they gave Tasmania to North like they gave Tasmania to Hawthorn in the AFL.
It's the wrong way around isn't it.
Why not the Tasmanian Kangaroos or the Canberra Bulldogs in the AFLW ?
 

AJMLaird

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That's right they gave Tasmania to North like they gave Tasmania to Hawthorn in the AFL.
It's the wrong way around isn't it.
Why not the Tasmanian Kangaroos or the Canberra Bulldogs in the AFLW ?
Good question. Perhaps they want to have a club based there before they field an AFLW team.
 

weewilly

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The stark truth is both Canberra and Tasmania don't have the populations or big businesses to support an AFL team and will have the propped up by the AFL (Canberra) and Tassie by the Tasmanian Govt and most likely the AFL for years!
I doubt that either team would bring in many new fans or corporate support.

Sadly it won't be done but if you were running the AFL as normal business you would cut your losses with the GC Suns which will be a continuing failure and a massive drain on AFL finances and send their players to Tassie to form the basis of the Tasmanian side.
 

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Bjo187

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The stark truth is both Canberra and Tasmania don't have the populations or big businesses to support an AFL team and will have the propped up by the AFL (Canberra) and Tassie by the Tasmanian Govt and most likely the AFL for years!
I doubt that either team would bring in many new fans or corporate support.

Sadly it won't be done but if you were running the AFL as normal business you would cut your losses with the GC Suns which will be a continuing failure and a massive drain on AFL finances and send their players to Tassie to form the basis of the Tasmanian side.

I personally have confidence in the gold coast. The level of participation, ex pats and quality of the local leagues is a real reason for optimism. If the suns can finally deliver and be the first successful gold coast team in any sport, they will be laughing. Gws on the other hand, I'm more concerned about.
 

Coolangatta

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I personally have confidence in the gold coast. The level of participation, ex pats and quality of the local leagues is a real reason for optimism. If the suns can finally deliver and be the first successful gold coast team in any sport, they will be laughing. Gws on the other hand, I'm more concerned about.
Yeah, I don’t think GWS should move to Canberra if it goes belly up unless Canberra people are willing to wait another 20 years for a team. But the AFL won’t keep the league at 19 teams for 20 years.

In that case, I think it’d be for the best to fold the Giants if still no one is showing up in 20 years.

That would bring the league back down to 19 teams (assuming Canberra or WA3 get up) and they could open the door for NT to eventually come in as team 20.
 

Canberra Pear

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The stark truth is both Canberra and Tasmania don't have the populations or big businesses to support an AFL team and will have the propped up by the AFL (Canberra) and Tassie by the Tasmanian Govt and most likely the AFL for years!
I doubt that either team would bring in many new fans or corporate support.

Sadly it won't be done but if you were running the AFL as normal business you would cut your losses with the GC Suns which will be a continuing failure and a massive drain on AFL finances and send their players to Tassie to form the basis of the Tasmanian side.

What's the population threshold for a team?

Canberra has 500k. That's already the same population per team as Melbourne clubs (more compared to the market share the smaller clubs would get).

By 2030, Canberra will have 600k within an hour, probably close to 750k in the "capital region".

At what point will we be big enough?
 

RedV3x

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What's the population threshold for a team?

It's not quite that simple, but 500k is a good number.

Canberra has 500k. That's already the same population per team as Melbourne clubs (more compared to the market share the smaller clubs would get).

If Canberra was "rusted on" Australian Football then 500k would be more than enough.
Geelong has half that number, but Geelong punches way above it's "weight".

By 2030, Canberra will have 600k within an hour, probably close to 750k in the "capital region".
At what point will we be big enough?

It's not a question of raw numbers. Western Sydney has a population of 2.6 million people.
Canberra unfortunately had some good proposals rejected when they arguably were in a better position to host their own team.
 

Bjo187

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What's the population threshold for a team?

Canberra has 500k. That's already the same population per team as Melbourne clubs (more compared to the market share the smaller clubs would get).

By 2030, Canberra will have 600k within an hour, probably close to 750k in the "capital region".

At what point will we be big enough?

Yeah 500k should be the minimum threshold for any team entering the competition. It's why the N.T proposal is so ridiculous.
 

Coolangatta

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Yeah 500k should be the minimum threshold for any team entering the competition. It's why the N.T proposal is so ridiculous.
But couldn’t the NT punch above its weight like Geelong or is Geelong’s success because Melbourne is only an hour away?

Then again Tassie wasn’t seriously considered until Hobart had near 500k people and they still wouldn’t have been without Launceston.
 

RedV3x

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But couldn’t the NT punch above its weight like Geelong

Geelong is city. N.T. is a region.

is Geelong’s success because Melbourne is only an hour away?

That definitely helps - it's close to large visiting teams.
Then again Tassie wasn’t seriously considered until Hobart had near 500k people

Don't you mean tasmania?

and they still wouldn’t have been without Launceston.

Launceston punches above it's weight compared to Hobart. 74k Vs 200k.
 

Canberra Pear

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But couldn’t the NT punch above its weight like Geelong or is Geelong’s success because Melbourne is only an hour away?

I'd say Geelong's proximity to Melbourne is a huge factor in its success.

Plus Greater Geelong has nearly double the population of Darwin. And a lot of regional population to draw from. I really don't see the NT and Geelong as being that similar.

Then again Tassie wasn’t seriously considered until Hobart had near 500k people and they still wouldn’t have been without Launceston.

Hobart has nowhere near 500k. They've got about 260k (pretty similar to Geelong).
 

weewilly

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But couldn’t the NT punch above its weight like Geelong or is Geelong’s success because Melbourne is only an hour away?

Then again Tassie wasn’t seriously considered until Hobart had near 500k people and they still wouldn’t have been without Launceston.
Yes a lot of people who live in Melbourne support Geelong and ATM all of Tassie not Hobart only has a bit over 500,000 population.
 

Aristotle Pickett

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Time to start suspending players who cause concussions.
For example Tom Stewart concussing Dion Prestia , should have got 10 weeks.
 

Coolangatta

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I'd say Geelong's proximity to Melbourne is a huge factor in its success.

Plus Greater Geelong has nearly double the population of Darwin. And a lot of regional population to draw from. I really don't see the NT and Geelong as being that similar.



Hobart has nowhere near 500k. They've got about 260k (pretty similar to Geelong).
Yeah my mistake, was getting Hobart and Tassie’s population mixed up. How many people do you think Darwin would need for NT to be considered for a team?

Surely not 500k as Alice Springs population should grow but I’d imagine they’re at least 30 years if not 50 away from being any sort of economic shot.
 

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