Longest losing streaks?

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RogersResults

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May 7, 2009
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I remember seeing somewhere that Melbourne City was formed as part of a desire of the VFA to have a centrally based team (unfortunately I can't put my finger on the source). The team played its home games at the East Melbourne Cricket Ground. It would seem that the lack of a local suburban supporter case stymied their ability to field a competitive team.

The VFA had occasional fantasies of becoming the leading competition again or at least the equal of the VFL. After the First World War, there was a movement in Geelong, encouraged by the VFA, for Geelong VFL to rejoin the VFA. When this failed, a 'Geelong Association' team was formed that was almost as inept as 'Melbourne City'.

The Association tried all sorts of innovations over the years to attract support away from the League. The League tended to sit back and watched to see what worked and what didn't and then copied the more successful innovations.
 

McCrann

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Nov 1, 2007
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The VFA had occasional fantasies of becoming the leading competition again or at least the equal of the VFL. After the First World War, there was a movement in Geelong, encouraged by the VFA, for Geelong VFL to rejoin the VFA. When this failed, a 'Geelong Association' team was formed that was almost as inept as 'Melbourne City'.

The Association tried all sorts of innovations over the years to attract support away from the League. The League tended to sit back and watched to see what worked and what didn't and then copied the more successful innovations.

The VFA should have linked up with other leagues around Australia, SANFL, WAFL, TFL, NTFL etc. and tried to go National early.

That was probably their only "hope" - although it would have been frightfully expensive to organise it properly.
 

mianfei

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May 10, 2009
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I remember seeing somewhere that Melbourne City was formed as part of a desire of the VFA to have a centrally based team (unfortunately I can’t put my finger on the source). The team played its home games at the East Melbourne Cricket Ground. It would seem that the lack of a local suburban supporter base stymied their ability to field a competitive team.
Interesting factoid - if it’s correct - and a lesson too maybe.

It does show how often sports leagues eager for expansion and market share will move into unviable markets without thinking. On the other side, the formation and disastrous failure of Melbourne City is exactly the opposite of the problem Hawthorn faced before country zoning allowed it access to a less noncompetitive culture in the sandbelt.

The people of the area Melbourne City was supposed to represent wanted something much more competitive and high-level than Melbourne City would offer and took no notice of local competitions. This phenomenon might be somewhat akin to the problems the AFL had and has with the cultures of the relatively densely settled coastal regions of New South Wales and Queensland, whose populations tend to demand something tougher, harder and more contact-oriented than Australian Rules (in this case, rugby league or union). In the early 1990s, the AFL was worried that its expansion into Brisbane and Sydney was failing, so since then it has tried to have as much control over the fate of the Swans as possible for fear of them losing competitiveness.
 

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Sep 30, 2010
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Coburg (VFA/L) - The Lions (as they were known back then) lost 30 games in a row from late 1992 to mid 1994.

.

My grandfather started taking me to watch Coburg play in the VFA weekly :)

My first game was the second game of that losing streak (I think it was against Port Melbourne) and then I'll never EVER forget the celebrations that followed when we finally beat Prahan by 6pts at home :D
 

mianfei

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The Bendigo Diggers VFL team won its only game for the year over the Murray Kangaroos in the second half of 2000 - and failed to win at all in 2001 & 2002, before they were replaced in the competition by the Bendigo Bombers from 2003.

I am not sure how many games in succession they lost, but would have been over 40.
I have not been able to check VFL records to see the answer, but it would be a minimum 36 consecutive games in 2001 and 2002, plus a few in 2000.

Regardless of what it is, the Diggers' successive winless seasons equals the longest losing streak in a major Australian Rules football competition since Glenelg in 1921 to 1924. It just shades North Melbourne losing 35 in a row (though eight of those were by less than a goal and thirteen by less than two goals) from Round 17 of 1933 to Round 14 (Round 15 was played earlier) in 1935. In the SANFL South Adelaide lost 34 in a row from Round 4, 1947 to Round 3, 1949, which is the only losing streak in either the SANFL or WAFL of 29 or more since 1925.
 

Mr.X

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Apr 27, 2007
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An interesting stat is that since the end of beginning of 1984, Richmond have won just 8 of 44 games against Geelong. Not since Colllingwood's first 35 years of owning Hawthorn has one side had such a long-running, indeed almost generational, hold over another.

Wonder how this one looks after yesterday?

Surely geelong being undefeated by the Tigers at the MCG since 1999 is a ground based record?
 
Wonder how this one looks after yesterday?

Surely geelong being undefeated by the Tigers at the MCG since 1999 is a ground based record?
West Coast haven't beaten Collingwood at the MCG since 1995.
 

mianfei

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Between 1897 and 1961, St Kilda played Collingwood at Victoria Park 58 times for a solitary 3-point win in 1919.
I knew that well. In fact. between 1897 and their last game there in 1993. St. Kilda only won at Victoria Park against the Magpies in 1919, 1962, 1963, 1968 (when Collingwood kicked 2-19 the same round Carlton kicked 1-11!), 1974, 1976 and 1993. Of course this reflects St. Kilda being devoid of the rich supporters (à la John Wren and Robert Menzies) needed to win premierships – which in turn reflects the historical and to some extent contemporary culture of south-of-Yarra Melbourne being hostile to professionalism in sport.

I’ve long noticed the extraordinary feat of Carlton and Collingwood – the two most successful clubs in the league – kicking 3-30 between them in Round 3 of 1968. The two matches actually were not on the same day, but the whole of April 1968 was unusually hot and windy, and the northerly winds were particularly difficult at east/west oriented Princes Park and Victoria Park.
1968040119680430.gif
 
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mianfei

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May 10, 2009
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That really is amazing when you think about it.
As Leonie Sandercock and Ian Turner pointed out thirty-five years ago in their book Up Where, Cazaly? : the Great Australian Game, St. Kilda (and latterly Hawthorn) were tightly chained to the bottom of the ladder for decades because of their absence of industrial patronage to permit them to recruit players of the requisite quality. In this context it’s hardly surprising Collingwood with businessmen like John Wren and Carlton with Robert Menzies and his Liberal Party could win every game against Hawthorn for fourteen seasons and every home game between them against St. Kilda form 1924 to 1953.
 

emuboy

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Between 1897 and 1961, St Kilda played Collingwood at Victoria Park 58 times for a solitary 3-point win in 1919.

Amazingly, that year Collingwood were VFL premiers and in another game, St Kilda went down to South Melbourne after allowing the Swans to kick 17.4-106 to 0.0-0 in the final term.
 

RogersResults

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May 7, 2009
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[QUOTE="In this context it’s hardly surprising Collingwood with businessmen like John Wren and Carlton with Robert Menzies and his Liberal Party could win every game against Hawthorn for fourteen seasons and every home game between them against St. Kilda form 1924 to 1953.[/QUOTE]
St Kilda managed a draw vs Carlton at Princes Park in round 16 1950 - 11.17-83 vs Carlton 12.11-83. The Saints trailed by 18 at 3/4 time and scored 3.6-24 to Carlton's 1.0-6 in the last quarter.

St Kilda won it first 5 matches of 1950 with a 19-point win at the Junction Oval vs Carlton in a front of a crowd of 47 thousand. It then proceeded to lose away matches to Geelong by 94 points and to Essendon by 64 points.
 

Nantes

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Oct 18, 2016
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As Leonie Sandercock and Ian Turner pointed out thirty-five years ago in their book Up Where, Cazaly? : the Great Australian Game, St. Kilda (and latterly Hawthorn) were tightly chained to the bottom of the ladder for decades because of their absence of industrial patronage to permit them to recruit players of the requisite quality. In this context it’s hardly surprising Collingwood with businessmen like John Wren and Carlton with Robert Menzies and his Liberal Party could win every game against Hawthorn for fourteen seasons and every home game between them against St. Kilda form 1924 to 1953.
It's very interesting.

Do you think there should be a line drawn where the AFL compare modern stats?
 
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That really is amazing when you think about it.
St.Kilda has won 26 wooden spoons I think.
That record in itself is amazing considering the most premierships any club has won in the league is 16.
Also in first 120 games they played Carlton they only won 18 of them.
Reckon I seen them beat us that many times since 2001.
First time I saw them beat us on our homeground was 1993.
 
It's very interesting.

Do you think there should be a line drawn where the AFL compare modern stats?
Every sporting competition or league is a continually evolving beast and rarely can you find discrete lines to draw between eras.

Any comparison needs to be viewed through the particular context of each era.
 

mianfei

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It's very interesting.

Do you think there should be a line drawn where the AFL compare modern stats?
For scoring statistics I tend to draw it at World War I simply because scores had increased sufficiently since the VFL started by then to “weed out” the low scores at match aggregate scores that dominate the overall records.

For other statistics it stands much tougher to draw a serious line. It is true that attempts to deal with the absence of (willing) industrial patrons in the eastern suburbs (resulting in extreme and persistent financial poverty for Hawthorn and St. Kilda, and consequently the monopolisation of the bottom places in all grades by those clubs) began after World War II but took a long time to be effective. Then we run into other problems like the effect of non-English immigration on several clubs, the country zoning gerrymander, Docklands, etc.
 

RogersResults

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Do you think there should be a line drawn where the AFL compare modern stats?

I think that would make following the AFL much less interesting. The way the game has been scored since 1897 makes for near endless combinations and permutations of results records. Also there is the relative continuity of the competition with only two clubs dropping out in its 120 contiguous seasons.

E.g.

After Carlton lost the first two matches in 2015, it was first time that it had lost the first two in three consecutive seasons since 1900-02.

When Collingwood defeated Carlton for the 2nd time in 2015, it was the first time that it had won two matches against the Blues in three consecutive seasons since 1901-03.

In 2015 after 10 matches Hawthorn's percentage of 155.18% was the highest for a team on six wins and four losses since Essendon's 171.62% in 1901.

When Melbourne scored 5.6-36 vs Geelong in round 17 2014, it was the first time that Melbourne had been kept to no more than 36 points in consecutive matches vs Geelong since 1902-03. This match was also Geelong's 8th consecutive win by 40 points or more against the Demons - the second most by any team against the same opponent. (The most being 10 by Geelong vs St Kilda 1897-1900.)

Round 10 1906 saw the record set for for the highest 1st quarter aggregate without any goals being kicked - Carlton 0.8-8 vs Geelong 0.2-2. This record was equaled but not beaten until a score of 0.5-5 vs 0.6-6 in the Port Adelaide vs Fremantle match in round 3 2006. This held until the current record was established in round 4 2012 - West Coast 0.8-8 vs Hawthorn 0.4.4.

The final score in the above match (West Coast 5.21-51 vs Hawthorn 5.16-46) also set the current record for the League of the most aggregate behinds (37) scored with an aggregate of 10 goals. Previous: St Kilda 5.18-48 vs Collingwood 5.15-45 in round 2 1919 at Victoria Park.

Where would you suggest the line be drawn drawn under the League's records to make such comparisons less interesting?
 
I knew that well. In fact. between 1897 and their last game there in 1993. St. Kilda only won at Victoria Park against the Magpies in 1919, 1962, 1963, 1968 (when Collingwood kicked 2-19 the same round Carlton kicked 1-11!), 1974, 1976 and 1993. Of course this reflects St. Kilda being devoid of the rich supporters (à la John Wren and Robert Menzies) needed to win premierships – which in turn reflects the historical and to some extent contemporary culture of south-of-Yarra Melbourne being hostile to professionalism in sport.

I’ve long noticed the extraordinary feat of Carlton and Collingwood – the two most successful clubs in the league – kicking 3-30 between them in Round 3 of 1968. The two matches actually were not on the same day, but the whole of April 1968 was unusually hot and windy, and the northerly winds were particularly difficult at east/west oriented Princes Park and Victoria Park.
1968040119680430.gif
Effes
 

mianfei

Club Legend
May 10, 2009
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Where would you suggest the line be drawn drawn under the League's records to make such comparisons less interesting?
I always draw the line with scores at World War I’s end, that is in 1919, because scores had increased enough to weed out all but very exceptional low scores by 1919.

The average score in 1897 was 38 points; by 1919 it was 66. That is an increase of 28 points in twenty years blocked only by interruptions from very wet weather between 1908 and 1911 and during the 1917 and 1918 washout during and immediately after a huge La Niña winter in 1917. Although scores increased continually until reaching a peak of 93 points per team per game in 1941, the rate of increase was less than between 1899 and 1919 and was less interrupted (only in 1931 and 1932) by very wet seasons.

Moreover, because scores have since 1942 fluctuated, with highs in 1982 and lows in the early 1960s (and in the very wet seasons of 1952-1953 and 1956), most years post-1919 are at least fairly comparable.

Other than with raw scoring, it is difficult to have a cut-off. In a few cases, mainly accuracy, one could almost cut the post-Docklands period of higher scoring accuracy and kick-and-mark football off, especially as the introduction of Docklands was preceded by radical climatic changes from Australia’s own greenhouse gas emissions and appalling transport planning systems (which if pressed internationally would have had no choice but a rigid policy of transferring every single cent to public transit and build by far the best system on earth).
 

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