Looking ahead to 2024

[dlanod]

No idea if this is still the rule, but this suggests cat b need a LTI but the LTI list now is only a 6 week commitment. So we would presumably start the season with Doedee and Ashcroft on that list meaning Brain could play in the opening 6 rounds at least, and at that point the club should know if one or both of Doedee / Ashcroft have another 6 weeks at least until playing.

At least that is my reading of it?

AFL tweaks long-term injury list eligibilty to give clubs greater flexibility

Players will miss a minimum of six rounds, not six weeks once placed on long-term injury list

www.afl.com.au

That's my understanding too. The LTI list was already six weeks - that article just amended it for COVID times to be six rounds (since rounds != weeks then), and the ability to select rookies was only ever explicitly extended to Cat A players.

 

[Mighty Lions]

I saw an interview late last year with Fagan when he was asked about Rayner: Who decides when Rayner goes into the midfield.

His answer was: We actually leave it to Cam to decide when he thinks the move is the right time.

I dont think he said that...maybe your interpretation of what was spoken.

 

[Section 5]

No idea if this is still the rule, but this suggests cat b need a LTI but the LTI list now is only a 6 week commitment. So we would presumably start the season with Doedee and Ashcroft on that list meaning Brain could play in the opening 6 rounds at least, and at that point the club should know if one or both of Doedee / Ashcroft have another 6 weeks at least until playing.

At least that is my reading of it?

AFL tweaks long-term injury list eligibilty to give clubs greater flexibility

Players will miss a minimum of six rounds, not six weeks once placed on long-term injury list

www.afl.com.au

It is still 6 weeks as far as i know.
Usually, clubs don't rush to place injured players on the LTI list.
Different circumstances for different situations and clubs.
If the Cat B players are ready to play at AFL level, the club will consider the move.
No point in doing it if they are 3 back of the starting 23 in their positions.
It is quick enough to implement with the AFL should the club think they are ready to debut.

Where the Cat B player actually plays in relation to the injuries in the whole side would be important.

They don't necessarily need to fill in the role of our two LTI players being a midfield and a 3rd KPF.

The other consideration is if say Doedee is placed on the LTI list Doedee can't play for 6 weeks.

 

[Section 5]

I dont think he said that...maybe your interpretation of what was spoken.

Mighty Lions Fagan did say that. No interpretation was needed.
Not necessary in the exact words i used, as i did not write the words as a "quotation."
I remember it clearly as i thought it was interesting at the time.
I am sure you have not seen or listened to all of Fagans interviews or quotes.

 

[Scubaveg]

You've been on this train for some time and I'm sure there is truth in it. But have to push back on Bailey needing to be more team oriented 'for us to be a grand final winning side.'

Without bailey kicking two spectacular and reasonably selfish goals in the first quarter we don't stay in that game, and at the end of the day we were less than a kick away from winning. We lost that game in the middle and frankly it took some ridiculous individual brilliance to make it so close.

Ultimately I don't expect rayner to do more than have a couple of match winning performances a year. One of those was in the qualifying final this year so that's pretty good.

100% agree with Mighty Lions here. Bailey is selfish and at times can be a hot head. So much potential yet very immature as a footballer.


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[Scubaveg]

I dont think he said that...maybe your interpretation of what was spoken.

I recall that conversation, that how I interpreted it as well.


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[3KZ is Football]

Bailey is an out and out gun! All small forwards look a little selfish because of the nature of their role. I also admit he does need to work on his defensive game and improve his tackling. That to one side, his speed and capacity to read the play are right up there with the great small forwards of the competition, making him a joy to watch for the footy purists.

Nothing immature about his after the siren goal against Collingwood in Rd 3. 2021



Bailey also produces on the big stage. His two last quarter goals in the 2022 Semi Final win over Melbourne helped win the game. His last goal was a cracker - fast, clean, unstoppable.



Then there was this, again on the big stage. He’d already kicked our first goal in the Grand Final and then he pulls this out.



This is not the work of an immature footballer. When you look at Bailey, you are looking at genius.

 

[Mighty Lions]

You've been on this train for some time and I'm sure there is truth in it. But have to push back on Bailey needing to be more team oriented 'for us to be a grand final winning side.'

Without bailey kicking two spectacular and reasonably selfish goals in the first quarter we don't stay in that game, and at the end of the day we were less than a kick away from winning. We lost that game in the middle and frankly it took some ridiculous individual brilliance to make it so close.

Ultimately I don't expect rayner to do more than have a couple of match winning performances a year. One of those was in the qualifying final this year so that's pretty good.

I dont class those goals by Bailey as one bit selfish....in fact I saw them as inspirational and team lifting.

 

[The Flying Belgian]

I dont class those goals by Bailey as one bit selfish....in fact I saw them as inspirational and team lifting.

Depends how you view the term "selfish" I suppose. It doesn't always mean a bad thing.

 

[twhowler]

It is still 6 weeks as far as i know.
Usually, clubs don't rush to place injured players on the LTI list.
Different circumstances for different situations and clubs.
If the Cat B players are ready to play at AFL level, the club will consider the move.
No point in doing it if they are 3 back of the starting 23 in their positions.
It is quick enough to implement with the AFL should the club think they are ready to debut.

Where the Cat B player actually plays in relation to the injuries in the whole side would be important.

They don't necessarily need to fill in the role of our two LTI players being a midfield and a 3rd KPF.

The other consideration is if say Doedee is placed on the LTI list Doedee can't play for 6 weeks.

That's true re not just automatically upgrading.

On the flipside though there is also merit in putting someone on the LTI early enough. If you wait until Brain is knocking down the door and it's round 12, and Doedee is coming back in round 15, it's too late. So the club might not do it round 1, but if Brain is starting to inch close by say round 3 they could pull the trigger then, even if he is a few week away from a debut

 

[Squizz89]

Depends how you view the term "selfish" I suppose. It doesn't always mean a bad thing.

The outcome of the act generally defines whether it was 'selfish' or 'team lifting'. If he misses those goals, everyone asks could he have handed it off to a teammate/ found someone in a better position etc. Nails them and its a 'team lifter' due to the difficulty of it. Different outcome defines how it ultimately gets viewed, I guess.

 

[Section 5]

That's true re not just automatically upgrading.

On the flipside though there is also merit in putting someone on the LTI early enough. If you wait until Brain is knocking down the door and it's round 12, and Doedee is coming back in round 15, it's too late. So the club might not do it round 1, but if Brain is starting to inch close by say round 3 they could pull the trigger then, even if he is a few week away from a debut

The club could do that as they would be well aware of the timeframe involved.
If either of those two really impress in preseason games, the club might consider the upgrade.

However, it is hard to see either of Brain or Reville debuting for the club in the early rounds in a team that just lost a GF by a few points.

 

[Grasshopper17]

Agree on Bailey as goal kicking is part of his game style.
I wish Neal was more confident in kicking goals when he is withing scoring distance.
Luckily Orla decided to have a 5% shot on goal against Adelaide week 1 of the AFLW finals.
Difference being the ladies got a 2-point win.
Then there are players like Akermanis.

Commentators and most likely fans too, always have an opinion after the event.
If someone kicks a difficult goal everyone is happy.

It is only after they miss that some talk will turn towards "not team oriented play".
Clearly so and so was sitting unattended, and it should have been passed to them.

There are defiantly times that a pass is needed instead of a shot on goal on the run.
However, i don't think it is in general an issue throughout the AFL, Lions or with Bailey.

I have always been of the opinion you may as well stuff up a kick on goal then stuff up a pass to a teammate in the vicinity of goal.

Zorko's "pass" to a Collingwood player at the top of the goal square in the third quarter of the Grand Final case in point.

 

[Grasshopper17]

I dont think he said that...maybe your interpretation of what was spoken.

He absolutely said that.

 

[martinson]

He absolutely said that.

He did.

One can only hope it wasn't his decision to put himself in the backline at the end of the first and 2nd quarters in the GF.

 

[rye]

Zorko's "pass" to a Collingwood player at the top of the goal square in the third quarter of the Grand Final case in point.

slightly tangential, but i think football analysis is consistently awkward about the result vindicating otherwise bad decisions

there are collingwood supporters who will argue until they are blue in the face that frampton played an important role in negating andrews in the grand final. in reality andrews had an above average game statistically on his 2023 level, and frampton at one point in the third quarter was the most targetted player inside f50 for either team with 0 marks to show for it

if collingwood had have lost i think the frampton selection would have been one that was heavily criticised by both their fans and the media. instead it is weirdly revised to be a good coaching decision

 

[Grasshopper17]

slightly tangential, but i think football analysis is consistently awkward about the result vindicating otherwise bad decisions

there are collingwood supporters who will argue until they are blue in the face that frampton played an important role in negating andrews in the grand final. in reality andrews had an above average game statistically on his 2023 level, and frampton at one point in the third quarter was the most targetted player inside f50 for either team with 0 marks to show for it

if collingwood had have lost i think the frampton selection would have been one that was heavily criticised by both their fans and the media. instead it is weirdly revised to be a good coaching decision

Thought Frampton was excellent myself. We managed only 49 intercepts for the whole game, our lowest tally for the entire season, and I think a big part of that was taking away our ability to take intercept marks.

I've posted this elsewhere but I think we will see a lot more forwards playing similar roles this year.

 

[dlanod]

Thought Frampton was excellent myself. We managed only 49 intercepts for the whole game, our lowest tally for the entire season, and I think a big part of that was taking away our ability to take intercept marks.

I've posted this elsewhere but I think we will see a lot more forwards playing similar roles this year.

I wouldn't give Frampton much (or any) credit for that. Collingwood did a job preventing that intercept marking game, but have a look at their scoring - the reason there wasn't much in the way of intercept marking was because they were spotting up midfielders or very high forwards (Hill) coming back into the forward 50, or having a ping themselves running forward. There's nothing Andrews can do about either of those.

 

[McIvor]

Kills me that bog average players and thugs the likes of Frampton, Cox, Ginnivan and Maynard are premiership players. No doubt the full arrogance of the last three will be on full display forever more and something that I’ll always struggle with.

 

[martinson]

Kills me that bog average players and thugs the likes of Frampton, Cox, Ginnivan and Maynard are premiership players. No doubt the full arrogance of the last three will be on full display forever more and something that I’ll always struggle with.

That's footy McIvor.

They executed their gameplan particularly well . We were very sloppy at the end of the first and second quarters and didn't take enough of our chances in the last quarter.

That was the game.

No complaints from me.

 

[twhowler]

T

That's footy McIvor.

They executed their gameplan particularly well . We were very sloppy at the end of the first and second quarters and didn't take enough of our chances in the last quarter.

That was the game.

No complaints from me.

There are almost ordinary players in flag sides, but usually easier to see in hindsight. At the time they are members of very good sides so role-players at best. Of those players Frampton is the trivia type question. The others are all decent at least or capable of very good.

But yes we only have ourselves to blame re hard running and end of quarter approach. We failed to figure out a good strategy to neutralise the game all year. Cost us the dees game, nearly cost us the crows game, came back to bite us in the grand final

 

[Viceregal]

But yes we only have ourselves to blame re hard running and end of quarter approach. We failed to figure out a good strategy to neutralise the game all year. Cost us the dees game, nearly cost us the crows game, came back to bite us in the grand final

Yes I suppose 'I hope no one has noticed the game style we suck at containing and that no one will use it against us in a final' as a management approach to a tactical weakness does have its flaws ...

 

[KissKiss]

Yes I suppose 'I hope no one has noticed the game style we suck at containing and that no one will use it against us in a final' as a management approach to a tactical weakness does have its flaws ...

I reckon every premiership side has a weakness that could be exploited including our threepeat. But you have to be good enough to pull it off. I'd say every club knows how to beat our current Lions, but very few teams can actually pull it off

 

[Viceregal]

I reckon every premiership side has a weakness that could be exploited including our threepeat. But you have to be good enough to pull it off. I'd say every club knows how to beat our current Lions, but very few teams can actually pull it off

nods - to beat Scottie Scheffler all I have to do with get a lower score over the 18 holes ... I just have to lift more than Lasha Talakhadze ... run a bit faster than Usain Bolt etc

iirc during the Hawks threepeat people said that they knew exactly what they were going to do they just couldn't stop them doing it

 

[briztoon]

T

There are almost ordinary players in flag sides, but usually easier to see in hindsight. At the time they are members of very good sides so role-players at best. Of those players Frampton is the trivia type question. The others are all decent at least or capable of very good.

But yes we only have ourselves to blame re hard running and end of quarter approach. We failed to figure out a good strategy to neutralise the game all year. Cost us the dees game, nearly cost us the crows game, came back to bite us in the grand final

Get fitter as a team, able to run with opposition teams who rely on running the whole game.

Prime example, the Lions women’s team.